Focused Feedback: Reward Merits

[Andreah]

38 minutes ago, CommisarCommunism said:

Not a big fan of this change. I don't farm, I don't power level, but I do alt a lot of characters and typically stop advancing 50's once I have t3 incarnate gear. I convert all the excess astral & empyrean merits to purchase the most expensive IO's for my next alt. I feel like these changes are a good example of where finding a solution for edge cases (power leveling AE farmers) screws over a lot of other folks for no good reason.

This is my chief concern.

 

It doesn't affect me, but it does affect quite a few people I play with.

 

Looking back at my ITF example from earlier in this thread, there's as much as a 5-10x reduction in rewards from the ITF for someone who was intending to use the emps from vet levels earned in it to convert to reward merits to get IOs' for their character.

 

I would be interested to know if using Emps from vet levels earned outside of AE to convert to Reward merits to get IOs was seen as badly imbalanced play. 

 

I'll add that quite a few players don't advance their incarnate abilities beyond T3, and some only T3 their alpha slots for the level shift from it.

 

I don't know how to solve the problem here, if it is in-fact considered a problem.

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Andreah said:

I would be interested to know if using Emps from vet levels earned outside of AE to convert to Reward merits to get IOs was seen as badly imbalanced play. 

My guess would be that a few outliers are multi-boxing afk farms and cashing in 1000s of Reward Merits a day.  The original plan to ban all vet XP in AE seems targeted at that same issue.  It's hard to reign in the outliers without affecting the masses.

[LastHumanSoldier]

21 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Well you're in luck, Mr Rockefeller.  You get to cash those in now for infinite Reward Merits, whereas anyone new will ever have the chance to make that level of wealth since all means of obtaining it are being removed.

 

Just to be clear:
I don't use Empyrean Merits to transfer to regular merits and play the market.
I save them for alts.

I keep a bank of 10K+ regular merits that I get from TFs, missions and super packs(Mostly from card packs really) for slotting out my characters.

 

[Astralock]

The issue is the convergence of Emyprean merits (via veteran levels), with Mission Architect.  The original solution to this issue imposed strictly on Mission Architect.  This new solution imposes on all forms of content.  IMO, the original nerf to veteran levels in Mission Architect is the better solution to the issue as it dealt strictly with the convergence factor.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

My guess would be that a few outliers are multi-boxing afk farms and cashing in 1000s of Reward Merits a day.  The original plan to ban all vet XP in AE seems targeted at that same issue.  It's hard to reign in the outliers without affecting the masses.

 

Have you ever compared the numbers of users on a couple of hours or so after maintenance on Tuesdays, to the exact same time on Wednesdays and Thursdays?  They're interesting.

[America's Angel]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

My guess would be that a few outliers are multi-boxing afk farms and cashing in 1000s of Reward Merits a day.  The original plan to ban all vet XP in AE seems targeted at that same issue.  It's hard to reign in the outliers without affecting the masses.

 

An AFK farmer (player, not character) can bring in 61,500 reward merits in a day.  Which works out at 184,500 converters, which can in turn be sold for 13-15 billion inf.

 

That same AFK farmer is also pulling in ~13 billion inf through regular influence farming alongside these emp drops.

 

Which makes a total of 26-28 billion inf per day.

 

Realistically, this is going to be a lower number due to the converting/selling process, as well as setting up new level 50s to farm emp merits on. (Hassles which seem a waste of time tbh when you can just AFK farm 91 billion inf a week without even needing to convert emps.)

Edited July 20, 2022 by America's Angel

[johua]

this is basically the same as the previous change except it screws everyone over.

still leaves me about where I said the previous change left me, in the other thread.

Edited July 20, 2022 by johua

[johua]

4 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

My guess would be that a few outliers are multi-boxing afk farms and cashing in 1000s of Reward Merits a day.  The original plan to ban all vet XP in AE seems targeted at that same issue.  It's hard to reign in the outliers without affecting the masses.

if the issue is people pulling in insane merits via afk farming then this whole thing could have been solved with a rules change.

 

but, who knows? AFAIK the dev diaries still aren't out. Still, I really, really don't like the idea of being punished for something I've never once done.

Edited July 20, 2022 by johua

[DrunkFlux]

Anytime a toon of mine was 50...I never entered them in AE, I only entered AE to hit 50 then I stopped entirely.

 

I admit I relied on extra E merits ect to get extra inf to.  This change is imo pretty badly thought out since it punishes everyone for the actions of a few exploiters exploiting an overpowered leveling/inf grinding system.

[RicoZaid]

Sorry I'm pretty new but... if my 3 main characters have their Incarnates and all my alt characters need a lot of IO sets, should I go ahead and convert all my Empyrean/Astral Merit to Reward Merits now? Before they remove the option? 

Edited July 20, 2022 by RicoZaid

[Troo]

3 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

An AFK farmer (player, not character) can bring in 61,500 reward merits in a day.  Which works out at 184,500 converters, which can in turn be sold for 13-15 billion inf.

 

That same AFK farmer is also pulling in ~13 billion inf through regular influence farming alongside these emp drops.

 

Which makes a total of 26-28 billion inf per day.

 

Realistically, this is going to be a lower number due to the converting/selling process, as well as setting up new level 50s to farm emp merits on. (Hassles which seem a waste of time tbh when you can just AFK farm 91 billion inf a week without even needing to convert emps.)

 

Are you doing this or something similar?

[Stormwalker]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

But then AA posts that some folks earn 60,000+ reward merits a day...

 

That is rather a mind-boggling number.  I doubt I'll ever earn 60,000 reward merits across all my characters combined.  I mean, that'd be... ~1700 reward merits for each of my characters, and, realistically, some of those characters will probably never make it to level 50.

[Clave Dark 5]

1 hour ago, RicoZaid said:

Sorry I'm pretty new but... if my 3 main characters have their Incarnates and all my alt characters need a lot of IO sets, should I go ahead and convert all my Empyrean/Astral Merit to Reward Merits now? Before they remove the option? 

I did, but here's why: I don't chase any of the Incarnate stuff, past using dropped threads and whatnot from the Incarnate missions.  I don't think I have a single post-50 build that's ever gone all the way up to +4, I just end up playing a newer toon and the old one collects dust. 

 

So, all these Emp merits - and I had a lot, I have about ten 50+ toons, three had over 200 Emp merits alone, wow, and another 3 around a hundred - would literally have gone to waste, for me, once this change hits.  If this also sounds like you, then maybe it would be worth your while to convert these while you can.  Or maybe I'm blind to something here, so pay attention as people post after me and see what they have to say then weight the options for yourself.  🙂

[Parabola]

Add me to the list of people who never even knew this conversion was a thing. Given that, and given that I don't AE farm I don't stand to lose much by this change or its predecessor. That said, this does feel like the broader impact solution.

[Bionic_Flea]

3 hours ago, RicoZaid said:

Sorry I'm pretty new but... if my 3 main characters have their Incarnates and all my alt characters need a lot of IO sets, should I go ahead and convert all my Empyrean/Astral Merit to Reward Merits now? Before they remove the option? 

Personally, I never convert Empyreans to Reward Merits.  I use them to get to T4, occasionally add some different I-powers to cover situations or just to try something new.  Anything beyond that get e-mailed to newer characters for them to get their incarnates quicker.  I also never buy IOs with merits.  I use the merits almost exclusively to buy converters, which I use to convert junk IOs into good to great IOs and then use, store, or sell them.  I buy all my IOs from the Auction House, if I don't already have them stored.  The merits I get from running story arcs and TFs and raids.

 

Other people prefer to buy their IOs with merits.  What I find to be a bad exchange rate, they find to be a nice, consistent, fixed amount that isn't being gamed by another player.

[drgran]

I am just wondering what the end goal is?

Changing this making the emp merits not beable to change to merits must have an end goal.

Are the devs finding out that people are complaining that there is no one for end game content?

Are you changing in the future the end game to beable to be played by normal 8 man team size? 

if this is the case then on the first one it is cause people like to farm and change emp merits to normal merits. and surprisingly people like to farm. 

If the end game is changing to an opinion to have 8 man team size then you will see leagues go away entirely.

So really there isn't no real reason to change this, as people who you think will change their minds and go play end game content just wont play that much any more. 

Hell I dont even know when people are on to play end game content. 

Doing things cause you do believe is a good thing doesn't mean its a good thing. 

 

 

 

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, johua said:

if the issue is people pulling in insane merits via afk farming then this whole thing could have been solved with a rules change.

 

But rules have to be reasonable and enforceable.  The devs aren't against Farming.  And detecting and restricting all AFK Farming is very hard, likely effectively impossible.

[WitchofDread]

when your characters are level 50 and maxed out the the hilt yet still earning EMP merits i use this to convert and buy expensive IO's i cant get or afford from the auction house for my lower level characters. This a massive help for when an IO is not available on the AH or the price is massively inflated. 

 

Please do not remove this system, it will RUIN things for the vast majority of players.

[Marbing]

10 hours ago, America's Angel said:

An AFK farmer (player, not character) can bring in 61,500 reward merits in a day.  Which works out at 184,500 converters, which can in turn be sold for 13-15 billion inf.

Not that I am disagreeing. Just curious how you’re getting those numbers. Can you show the math behind this?

[ShardWarrior]

11 hours ago, America's Angel said:

An AFK farmer (player, not character) can bring in 61,500 reward merits in a day.  Which works out at 184,500 converters, which can in turn be sold for 13-15 billion inf.

 

That same AFK farmer is also pulling in ~13 billion inf through regular influence farming alongside these emp drops.

 

Which makes a total of 26-28 billion inf per day.

 

Realistically, this is going to be a lower number due to the converting/selling process, as well as setting up new level 50s to farm emp merits on. (Hassles which seem a waste of time tbh when you can just AFK farm 91 billion inf a week without even needing to convert emps.)

 

Is the 61,500 merits per day just by converting EMP merits to Reward Merits?  If so, would it not have been easier to just cap the EMP to Reward merit conversion to a set amount each day?

 

6 hours ago, Troo said:

But then AA posts that some folks earn 60,000+ reward merits a day... WTF !!

 

I am skeptical of that figure as well.  Again, if there are a few doing this, would it not be better to deal with these extreme edge cases? 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[Troo]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

 Again, if there are a few doing this, would it not be better to deal with these extreme edge cases? 

 

 

By "deal with" do you mean:

 

A) Smash their greedy fingers with hammers, cleanse their ill gotten gains, delete their accounts and put 7 to 30 day bans on every account they came in contact with until cleared of corroboration?

 

-or-

 

B) Immediately cap the Emp gains over an 18 hour period at say 100 or so until a reasonable solution is arrived at?

 

 

Option B seems to be what a professional operation would do.

 

 

 

[arcane]

Ya know, if someone is so batshit crazy that they want to have 8 accounts farming at once, I don’t know how you stop their determination with nerfs.

[ShardWarrior]

@Troo Option B would be my thought.  Not sure why EMP to Reward merit conversion cannot be capped at a set amount per day.   I suppose AFK farmers with tons of accounts can still make quite a lot of EMP merits per day, but that should still put a dent in converting them and slow them down a bit.

Edited July 20, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[Troo]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

Ya know, if someone is so batshit crazy that they want to have 8 accounts farming at once, I don’t know how you stop their determination with nerfs.

 

..or why everyone is punished because of offenders.

 

I am a little zeroed in on the instant-level-50 for 20 pvp-ers who are tired of leveling while everyone else has to grind. Seems like a similar level of entitlement where they will take what they want and the heck with everyone else.

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Troo

[skoryy]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

Ya know, if someone is so batshit crazy that they want to have 8 accounts farming at once, I don’t know how you stop their determination with nerfs.

 

Or capping for that matter.

 

The issue is when others decide following their footsteps is the only way to keep up and the market starts getting away from everyone else, and so they feel this is the only way to keep up.  Not sure if this is happening now, but the Barney Fife Rule applies: Nip it in the bud.

 

Replacing emps to RMs with emps and equivalent RMs for non-VL rewards seems like the better play.  Just need to make sure all the emps are covered.

[ShardWarrior]

10 minutes ago, skoryy said:

The issue is when others decide following their footsteps is the only way to keep up and the market starts getting away from everyone else, and so they feel this is the only way to keep up. 

 

I think it a gross over exaggeration.  Were this even remotely true, the vast majority of people would be doing the AFK farming thing already.  Quite clearly they are not.