Level Up - Tokens

[Ruin Mage]

You can experience ITF at 35, it doesn't constitute as endgame.

CoH doesn't have too much at fifty at this time. A handful of TFs, hard mode ASF (and eventually ITF), iTrials, and Hamidon. The MSR you can go to at any level. I supposed Master of badge runs are 50 only too.

I'm against the idea, but I can't particularly put to why. I just dislike instant 50s for PVE on a server with an actual population.

[Zeraphia]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

You can experience ITF at 35, it doesn't constitute as endgame.

CoH doesn't have too much at fifty at this time. A handful of TFs, hard mode ASF (and eventually ITF), iTrials, and Hamidon. The MSR you can go to at any level. I supposed Master of badge runs are 50 only too.

I'm against the idea, but I can't particularly put to why. I just dislike instant 50s for PVE on a server with an actual population.

"Like ITF/mixed out builds" is what I said. You can't experience a huge amount of builds that are designed around being at level 50. Certain powers have recharge requirements that need to be met, therefore powers, therefore IO sets that they need, a lot of which don't come online until the 45+ range. You can of course build around being at level 35 or lower or whatever else and some do for exemping content, but most usually will craft one build at level 50 for a character and that's it. I think you're underestimating how large of a population the people who exclusively only play at level 50 actually is. A lot of people don't really want to AE farm the 80th time and use 2 (often more like 4 due to inefficiencies) hours of their time to do it. It's just tedious and not fun on a game that really relies on a player base running repeatable content. 

 

A fire/fire blaster at level 50 fully maxed out with softcapped S/L defense is a lot more fun and enjoyable for most people than a level 23 version of it without the snipe, inferno, or any strong defenses. 

 

I'd say honestly most people pick a character based around their endgame at 50. They will plan out what they'll do in the beginning, but most are usually considering what they'll feel like "in the end" once created.

[Greycat]

I don't particularly like 40 or 50 as a level to get bumped up to. Just as a personal gut feeling.

 

30, though, I might consider. Mostly because - well, yes, it's roughly the halfway point (Yes, I know, numerically that's 25, but given it takes more time to eat a hamburger than to get up several levels early on...) and when I see people complain about certain ATs early game being frustrating or annoying... the mid 20s to 30 bypasses that.  (I'm thinking specifically of bypassing the weakest, kind of most boring and frustraing part of MMs, and of VEATs and the ridiculous and annoying forced respec at 24.)

 

(Honestly, personally I'd have 20, 25 and 30 options, and I'd personally probalby use 25 for the above reasons, plus the 20s are where the content I particularly like tends to reside. Especially for magic characters, natively going through Croatoa's a thing. I enjoy that, and the keith nance/jenny adair duo.)

 

[Troo]

14 minutes ago, Krimson said:

You pick one, it quotes you a price, and you decide to pay it or not.

 

similar to auto leveling SOs?

 

35 minutes ago, Greycat said:

30, though, I might consider. Mostly because - well, yes, it's roughly the halfway point

 

ah, interesting.

I only threw out 40 as a guess to were the expectation of a midpoint was related to time and effort.

based on total exp the mid point is near level 45, which I think fails to account for the increased exp per foe as we level.

 

thanks also to the others who also threw out a level that felt right.

[Yomo Kimyata]

How about:

 

You take the amount of experience that it takes to level from 1-50, call it X.  (I realize I can look it up but I just don't care to.).  Make tokens that provide X/10 experience to a given character (immune to XP boosters).  Grant every *account* 10 of these tokens and make them tradeable on the /AH.

 

Everyone gets one free 1-50 level experience if they choose.  If they don't care, let the free market deal with it.

 

Don't allow any other way to achieve these tokens.

 

You can't stop people from making 100 accounts, but I doubt people will game the system that way because, ugh, effort.

 

Or, don't do anything.  Status quo is fine.

[Troo]

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Experience

 

Level	Incremental	Cumulative	Level	Incremental	Cumulative
1	n/a	0	26	85,200	446,119
2	106	106	27	108,000	554,119
3	337	443	28	135,000	689,119
4	582	1,025	29	166,650	855,769
5	800	1,825	30	203,400	1,059,169
6	1,237	3,062	31	254,000	1,313,169
7	1,575	4,637	32	314,600	1,627,769
8	1,950	6,587	33	386,400	2,014,169
9	2,680	9,267	34	470,600	2,484,769
10	3,125	12,392	35	571,200	3,055,969
11	3,600	15,992	36	701,500	3,757,469
12	4,995	20,987	37	854,700	4,612,169
13	6,405	27,392	38	1,036,600	5,648,769
14	7,400	34,792	39	1,250,200	6,898,969
15	9,093	43,885	40	1,502,550	8,401,519
16	11,184	55,069	41	1,692,900	10,094,419
17	13,000	68,069	42	1,907,550	12,001,969
18	15,950	84,019	43	2,150,550	14,152,519
19	19,200	103,219	44	2,421,900	16,574,419
20	23,400	126,619	45	2,729,700	19,304,119
21	28,000	154,619	46	3,078,000	22,382,119
22	36,000	190,619	47	3,470,850	25,852,969
23	45,000	235,619	48	3,912,300	29,765,269
24	56,000	291,619	49	4,410,450	34,175,719
25	69,300	360,919	50	4,973,400	39,149,119

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Everyone gets one free 1-50 level experience if they choose.  If they don't care, let the free market deal with it.

 

Oooo

[Yomo Kimyata]

Ten tokens would get 10 characters to 36.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Yomo Kimyata
math

[Zeraphia]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

How about:

 

You take the amount of experience that it takes to level from 1-50, call it X.  (I realize I can look it up but I just don't care to.).  Make tokens that provide X/10 experience to a given character (immune to XP boosters).  Grant every *account* 10 of these tokens and make them tradeable on the /AH.

 

Everyone gets one free 1-50 level experience if they choose.  If they don't care, let the free market deal with it.

 

Don't allow any other way to achieve these tokens.

 

You can't stop people from making 100 accounts, but I doubt people will game the system that way because, ugh, effort.

 

Or, don't do anything.  Status quo is fine.

I have a conspiracy theory that you're making this post in an effort to game the system via your market manipulation techniques.

 

You cannot outrun your crimes.

[Rudra]

If these tokens were to ever exist, I'm inclined to say they are locked to that account that gets them. No being able to sell them on the AH/BM. This way a new player in the game has at least an incentive to play the game and experience the zones (or skip it through the ever available farms) and players that have been playing for a while can buy them with reward merits (which are readily available and fairly fast to accumulate).

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

I have a conspiracy theory that you're making this post in an effort to game the system via your market manipulation techniques.

 

You cannot outrun your crimes.

 

I have Sprint 3-slotted.

[Rudra]

Yeah, and it does work. I'm just trying to avoid putting more into Null. Especially since selling things isn't really a Null thing.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to correct "buying" to "selling".

[battlewraith]

There's a real strong thematic concern that a talking seagull that can alter your moral character upon request wouldn't take inf in exchange for xp. That's like, really obvious or something. Maybe we can straight up bribe Miss Liberty to fork over the xps. 

[Rudra]

I was more thinking merit vendors for reward merits or P2W for inf'.

[Clave Dark 5]

14 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Thinking on it there could be additional versatility with tokens for a smaller range.

Lets a player get to 20 or 30 for their reasons

Could be one, five, ten, twenty or forty to use up to forty.

 

What had you thinking 35?

Nothing in particular, but pointing out that by then you have a semblance of your best powers and a few slots, plus the ITF, does make a certain sense to me.  

 

Thinking about this more though, I do wonder what it will do to how often below-the-token levels content gets run.  But I do know that in the era of P2W Double XP etc., that's already a bridge burned - or not, I always get to do a DFB or three.

[Troo]

39 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I do wonder what it will do to how often below-the-token levels content gets run.

 

Yep, or if at all?

This ties back into the question: Should this be something characters earn or buy?

 

It is interesting to consider different ways to facilitate it.

• Should it be earned? If so, how should it be earned?
• Should is be purchased? If so, for how much and from where?
• Should it be character or account locked?

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Troo

[Rudra]

Purple drops for low level content?! That goes back to low level characters getting recipes they can't use from another thread.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Yep, or if at all?

This ties back into the question: Should this be something characters earn or buy?

 

It is interesting to consider different ways to facilitate it.

• Should it be earned? If so, how should it be earned?
• Should is be purchased? If so, for how much and from where?
• Should it be character or account locked?

 

Should it be character or account locked would depend on how it is gained. If it is gained by being earned or by purchasing with reward merits, then that puts the player in the position that if it is character locked, it could only be used by that character. Which may not be the one the player wants to insta-level. If it can be purchased with inf', then having it locked to that character is fine because the player would presumably be using a more developed character to finance the newer character(s) insta-leveling.

[Clave Dark 5]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

I can make a level 50 toon in two hours and I have done so exactly once. I like running some of the story arcs. Frostfire is fun. So is the Drowning in Blood Trial. 

 

But if you really want to entice players to play lower level content, increase drops for them, including the likelihood of purple recipes and salvage to craft it. Or reward a useful enhancement for completing a story arc. "Here's an attuned Preventive Medicine you can slot in Health" sort of thing. 

I actually don't have too much problem finding low level stuff do join in on, and I can always lead a team myself if I did.  This would be a theoretical negative outcome if we came up with such tokens - which might then argue against them, if doing so means we then have to also change something else.  One change to something is fine, but other changes you have to make to compensate for that first one indicate it wasn't a good change.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

"Here's an attuned Preventive Medicine you can slot in Health" sort of thing. 

I do think that providing some rewards that are useful their entire career, while not overshadowing other unique or set IOs, would be a great way to incentivize playing low-level content;  rewarding players with enhancements that'll probably become out of date in a few hour's time feel like an insult.  Another idea could be to reward such content with "research grants", which reduce the cost or even completely cover the crafting fee of some lower level IOs.

[Rudra]

The problem with awarding attuned set IO's as reward drops is it effectively kills the need for enhancement catalysts. Sure, I think you could still use them to pump the enhancement up to +whatever, which I think also strips the attunement from the enhancement, but I was under the impression making IOs attuned were the primary use of enhancement catalysts. Edit: It would also kill the point of getting salvage drops.

 

I'm also against set IO's dropping already crafted from mobs for the character at all. (Edit: Partially because it would kill the point of salvage drops.) They are part of the invention system and I feel they should remain with the crafting (or purchase from AH/BM) requirement. (Edit: I'm fine with something like the enhancements Yin sells dropping as arc rewards though.)

 

Both those comments have nothing to do with the OP, but are prompted by the rewards comment made in this thread.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Rudra

[UltraAlt]

seriously?

I thought this was a necro'ed thread.

I immediately when to look how old it was.

[TheZag]

I guess if level up token PvE characters could only go into lvl 50 zones and lvl 50 TFs then it could be comparable to the instant 50 PvP characters.  Im all in favor of instant 50 tokens that cost two billion and one inf.

 

[battlewraith]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

seriously?

I thought this was a necro'ed thread.

I immediately when to look how old it was.

 

"Ah ha ha haaaaaaa ha

I know this

thread is

Troo's"

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

You still need catalysts to make Superiors from Winter Sets and ATOs. A level 50 toon has 67 slots. How many complete story arcs is a player going to run from level 1-50? I'm suggesting story arcs with the reward granted at the last mission to incentivize sticking around. I'm not saying drop ATOs, Winter Enhancements, or Purple Sets. Just a few proc goodies that could be used or sold. Stuff like Panacea, Numina, Preventive Medicine, Performance Shifter, Power Transfer and the like. Maybe even Gladiator's Armor and Steadfast Protection for those DEF boosts. The amount awarded per toon isn't going to be a lot, and if the reward is on completion of the arc, farming it probably won't be worth the effort. 

Here's what I see as a flaw in that line of reasoning. There is a mad scientist contact in Mercy Island that can be accessed normally or through Ouroboros. His entire arc is 3 missions, the 2nd of which is defeat 3 lieutenant infected in a specific area. All three missions are in close proximity to each other. His arc can be run in less than 8 minutes without even trying. And this suggestion would mean that this arc would provide a proc every less than 8 minutes. Already fully crafted and attuned.

[golstat2003]

On 7/25/2022 at 12:33 PM, TheZag said:

I guess if level up token PvE characters could only go into lvl 50 zones and lvl 50 TFs then it could be comparable to the instant 50 PvP characters.  Im all in favor of instant 50 tokens that cost two billion and one inf.

 

 

I'd . . . seriously be down for this, or the OP's idea. I use to be against it, but with instant PVP level 50s I see no harm.

 

I'm now open to any and all variations of the idea.

 

/shrug.