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Level Up - Tokens


Troo

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You can experience ITF at 35, it doesn't constitute as endgame.

CoH doesn't have too much at fifty at this time. A handful of TFs, hard mode ASF (and eventually ITF), iTrials, and Hamidon. The MSR you can go to at any level. I supposed Master of badge runs are 50 only too.

I'm against the idea, but I can't particularly put to why. I just dislike instant 50s for PVE on a server with an actual population.

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1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

You can experience ITF at 35, it doesn't constitute as endgame.

CoH doesn't have too much at fifty at this time. A handful of TFs, hard mode ASF (and eventually ITF), iTrials, and Hamidon. The MSR you can go to at any level. I supposed Master of badge runs are 50 only too.

I'm against the idea, but I can't particularly put to why. I just dislike instant 50s for PVE on a server with an actual population.

"Like ITF/mixed out builds" is what I said. You can't experience a huge amount of builds that are designed around being at level 50. Certain powers have recharge requirements that need to be met, therefore powers, therefore IO sets that they need, a lot of which don't come online until the 45+ range. You can of course build around being at level 35 or lower or whatever else and some do for exemping content, but most usually will craft one build at level 50 for a character and that's it. I think you're underestimating how large of a population the people who exclusively only play at level 50 actually is. A lot of people don't really want to AE farm the 80th time and use 2 (often more like 4 due to inefficiencies) hours of their time to do it. It's just tedious and not fun on a game that really relies on a player base running repeatable content. 

 

A fire/fire blaster at level 50 fully maxed out with softcapped S/L defense is a lot more fun and enjoyable for most people than a level 23 version of it without the snipe, inferno, or any strong defenses. 

 

I'd say honestly most people pick a character based around their endgame at 50. They will plan out what they'll do in the beginning, but most are usually considering what they'll feel like "in the end" once created.

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I don't particularly like 40 or 50 as a level to get bumped up to. Just as a personal gut feeling.

 

30, though, I might consider. Mostly because - well, yes, it's roughly the halfway point (Yes, I know, numerically that's 25, but given it takes more time to eat a hamburger than to get up several levels early on...) and when I see people complain about certain ATs early game being frustrating or annoying... the mid 20s to 30 bypasses that.  (I'm thinking specifically of bypassing the weakest, kind of most boring and frustraing part of MMs, and of VEATs and the ridiculous and annoying forced respec at 24.)

 

(Honestly, personally I'd have 20, 25 and 30 options, and I'd personally probalby use 25 for the above reasons, plus the 20s are where the content I particularly like tends to reside. Especially for magic characters, natively going through Croatoa's a thing. I enjoy that, and the keith nance/jenny adair duo.)

 

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14 minutes ago, Krimson said:

You pick one, it quotes you a price, and you decide to pay it or not.

 

similar to auto leveling SOs?

 

35 minutes ago, Greycat said:

30, though, I might consider. Mostly because - well, yes, it's roughly the halfway point

 

ah, interesting.

I only threw out 40 as a guess to were the expectation of a midpoint was related to time and effort.

based on total exp the mid point is near level 45, which I think fails to account for the increased exp per foe as we level.

 

thanks also to the others who also threw out a level that felt right.

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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How about:

 

You take the amount of experience that it takes to level from 1-50, call it X.  (I realize I can look it up but I just don't care to.).  Make tokens that provide X/10 experience to a given character (immune to XP boosters).  Grant every *account* 10 of these tokens and make them tradeable on the /AH.

 

Everyone gets one free 1-50 level experience if they choose.  If they don't care, let the free market deal with it.

 

Don't allow any other way to achieve these tokens.

 

You can't stop people from making 100 accounts, but I doubt people will game the system that way because, ugh, effort.

 

Or, don't do anything.  Status quo is fine.

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Who run Bartertown?

 

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https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Experience

 

   Level       Incremental       Cumulative       Level       Incremental       Cumulative   
1    n/a    0    26    85,200    446,119   
2    106    106    27    108,000    554,119   
3    337    443    28    135,000    689,119   
4    582    1,025    29    166,650    855,769   
5    800    1,825    30    203,400    1,059,169   
6    1,237    3,062    31    254,000    1,313,169   
7    1,575    4,637    32    314,600    1,627,769   
8    1,950    6,587    33    386,400    2,014,169   
9    2,680    9,267    34    470,600    2,484,769   
10    3,125    12,392    35    571,200    3,055,969   
11    3,600    15,992    36    701,500    3,757,469   
12    4,995    20,987    37    854,700    4,612,169   
13    6,405    27,392    38    1,036,600    5,648,769   
14    7,400    34,792    39    1,250,200    6,898,969   
15    9,093    43,885    40    1,502,550    8,401,519   
16    11,184    55,069    41    1,692,900    10,094,419   
17    13,000    68,069    42    1,907,550    12,001,969   
18    15,950    84,019    43    2,150,550    14,152,519   
19    19,200    103,219    44    2,421,900    16,574,419   
20    23,400    126,619    45    2,729,700    19,304,119   
21    28,000    154,619    46    3,078,000    22,382,119   
22    36,000    190,619    47    3,470,850    25,852,969   
23    45,000    235,619    48    3,912,300    29,765,269   
24    56,000    291,619    49    4,410,450    34,175,719   
   25       69,300       360,919       50       4,973,400       39,149,119   

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Everyone gets one free 1-50 level experience if they choose.  If they don't care, let the free market deal with it.

 

Oooo

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

How about:

 

You take the amount of experience that it takes to level from 1-50, call it X.  (I realize I can look it up but I just don't care to.).  Make tokens that provide X/10 experience to a given character (immune to XP boosters).  Grant every *account* 10 of these tokens and make them tradeable on the /AH.

 

Everyone gets one free 1-50 level experience if they choose.  If they don't care, let the free market deal with it.

 

Don't allow any other way to achieve these tokens.

 

You can't stop people from making 100 accounts, but I doubt people will game the system that way because, ugh, effort.

 

Or, don't do anything.  Status quo is fine.

I have a conspiracy theory that you're making this post in an effort to game the system via your market manipulation techniques.

 

You cannot outrun your crimes.

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If these tokens were to ever exist, I'm inclined to say they are locked to that account that gets them. No being able to sell them on the AH/BM. This way a new player in the game has at least an incentive to play the game and experience the zones (or skip it through the ever available farms) and players that have been playing for a while can buy them with reward merits (which are readily available and fairly fast to accumulate).

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Yeah, and it does work. I'm just trying to avoid putting more into Null. Especially since selling things isn't really a Null thing.

Edited by Rudra
Edited to correct "buying" to "selling".
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There's a real strong thematic concern that a talking seagull that can alter your moral character upon request wouldn't take inf in exchange for xp. That's like, really obvious or something. Maybe we can straight up bribe Miss Liberty to fork over the xps. 

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14 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Thinking on it there could be additional versatility with tokens for a smaller range.

Lets a player get to 20 or 30 for their reasons

Could be one, five, ten, twenty or forty to use up to forty.

 

What had you thinking 35?

Nothing in particular, but pointing out that by then you have a semblance of your best powers and a few slots, plus the ITF, does make a certain sense to me.  

 

Thinking about this more though, I do wonder what it will do to how often below-the-token levels content gets run.  But I do know that in the era of P2W Double XP etc., that's already a bridge burned - or not, I always get to do a DFB or three.

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Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game...

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Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes
Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise.
This game isn't hard work, it's easy!
Go have fun!
╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
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39 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I do wonder what it will do to how often below-the-token levels content gets run.

 

Yep, or if at all?

This ties back into the question: Should this be something characters earn or buy?

 

It is interesting to consider different ways to facilitate it.

  • Should it be earned? If so, how should it be earned?
  • Should is be purchased? If so, for how much and from where?
  • Should it be character or account locked?

 

Edited by Troo
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"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Purple drops for low level content?! That goes back to low level characters getting recipes they can't use from another thread.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Yep, or if at all?

This ties back into the question: Should this be something characters earn or buy?

 

It is interesting to consider different ways to facilitate it.

  • Should it be earned? If so, how should it be earned?
  • Should is be purchased? If so, for how much and from where?
  • Should it be character or account locked?

 

Should it be character or account locked would depend on how it is gained. If it is gained by being earned or by purchasing with reward merits, then that puts the player in the position that if it is character locked, it could only be used by that character. Which may not be the one the player wants to insta-level. If it can be purchased with inf', then having it locked to that character is fine because the player would presumably be using a more developed character to finance the newer character(s) insta-leveling.

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1 hour ago, Krimson said:

I can make a level 50 toon in two hours and I have done so exactly once. I like running some of the story arcs. Frostfire is fun. So is the Drowning in Blood Trial. 

 

But if you really want to entice players to play lower level content, increase drops for them, including the likelihood of purple recipes and salvage to craft it. Or reward a useful enhancement for completing a story arc. "Here's an attuned Preventive Medicine you can slot in Health" sort of thing. 

I actually don't have too much problem finding low level stuff do join in on, and I can always lead a team myself if I did.  This would be a theoretical negative outcome if we came up with such tokens - which might then argue against them, if doing so means we then have to also change something else.  One change to something is fine, but other changes you have to make to compensate for that first one indicate it wasn't a good change.

 

Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game...

╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗

Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes
Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise.
This game isn't hard work, it's easy!
Go have fun!
╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
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1 hour ago, Krimson said:

"Here's an attuned Preventive Medicine you can slot in Health" sort of thing. 

I do think that providing some rewards that are useful their entire career, while not overshadowing other unique or set IOs, would be a great way to incentivize playing low-level content;  rewarding players with enhancements that'll probably become out of date in a few hour's time feel like an insult.  Another idea could be to reward such content with "research grants", which reduce the cost or even completely cover the crafting fee of some lower level IOs.

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The problem with awarding attuned set IO's as reward drops is it effectively kills the need for enhancement catalysts. Sure, I think you could still use them to pump the enhancement up to +whatever, which I think also strips the attunement from the enhancement, but I was under the impression making IOs attuned were the primary use of enhancement catalysts. Edit: It would also kill the point of getting salvage drops.

 

I'm also against set IO's dropping already crafted from mobs for the character at all. (Edit: Partially because it would kill the point of salvage drops.) They are part of the invention system and I feel they should remain with the crafting (or purchase from AH/BM) requirement. (Edit: I'm fine with something like the enhancements Yin sells dropping as arc rewards though.)

 

Both those comments have nothing to do with the OP, but are prompted by the rewards comment made in this thread.

Edited by Rudra
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seriously?

I thought this was a necro'ed thread.

I immediately when to look how old it was.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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I guess if level up token PvE characters could only go into lvl 50 zones and lvl 50 TFs then it could be comparable to the instant 50 PvP characters.  Im all in favor of instant 50 tokens that cost two billion and one inf.

 

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1 hour ago, Krimson said:

You still need catalysts to make Superiors from Winter Sets and ATOs. A level 50 toon has 67 slots. How many complete story arcs is a player going to run from level 1-50? I'm suggesting story arcs with the reward granted at the last mission to incentivize sticking around. I'm not saying drop ATOs, Winter Enhancements, or Purple Sets. Just a few proc goodies that could be used or sold. Stuff like Panacea, Numina, Preventive Medicine, Performance Shifter, Power Transfer and the like. Maybe even Gladiator's Armor and Steadfast Protection for those DEF boosts. The amount awarded per toon isn't going to be a lot, and if the reward is on completion of the arc, farming it probably won't be worth the effort. 

Here's what I see as a flaw in that line of reasoning. There is a mad scientist contact in Mercy Island that can be accessed normally or through Ouroboros. His entire arc is 3 missions, the 2nd of which is defeat 3 lieutenant infected in a specific area. All three missions are in close proximity to each other. His arc can be run in less than 8 minutes without even trying. And this suggestion would mean that this arc would provide a proc every less than 8 minutes. Already fully crafted and attuned.

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On 7/25/2022 at 12:33 PM, TheZag said:

I guess if level up token PvE characters could only go into lvl 50 zones and lvl 50 TFs then it could be comparable to the instant 50 PvP characters.  Im all in favor of instant 50 tokens that cost two billion and one inf.

 

 

I'd . . . seriously be down for this, or the OP's idea. I use to be against it, but with instant PVP level 50s I see no harm.

 

I'm now open to any and all variations of the idea.

 

/shrug.

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