The Pretty Good AE Debate

[SwitchFade]

8 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

you are starting with opinions you treat as facts. that is a dishonest approach to any discussion. every kill should reward the same amount in relation to level/tier equally. they should not be lower just because they are in any particular place in the game. AE is as much part of the game as the hollows is.

Incorrect, there are no opinions here, there are questions and suppositions.

 

It would bode well if you answered them, which would give you a logical position 

[SwitchFade]

4 hours ago, Puma said:

Then you'd have to deal with kill all ITFs too, because they are exactly the same. 


And lets talk about  just how unfair it is that people run the newer DFB and DIB Sewer trials on their newbies and get levels so much faster than I do running  missions in hollows. It's just SO UNFAIR that they get oversized returns for that! 

 

Great point, outliers like dfb and ITF should also be adjusted. In fact, dfb was adjusted down once already.

 

This is a great emphasis that the content should be equal, even if it's story content.

[Ironblade]

13 hours ago, Excraft said:

Can't the AFK timer be turned on inside instanced maps?  That would solve your AFK farming problem. 

Nah.  It's WAY too easy to defeat that measure.

 

Plus, that's the kind of measure the devs want to avoid because it will inevitably harm non-farmers.  Someone is running one of the horrific missions (like find the 18 stage magicians on the Orenbega map), they're 90% done and have a child/pet/whatever emergency.  Game logs them out and they have to start from scratch.  That has the potential to infuriate people who are doing nothing but dealing with a real-life emergency.

[SwitchFade]

6 hours ago, roleki said:

 

 

Very well then, I farm because it is the most efficient means of amassing the resources that I find important.  With that out of the way, I would love to hear someone offer concrete proof that AE farming has harmed them, the game, or the universe in general, or if it turns out this all boils down to "They have more than me!" 

 

 

I respect your reasons for why you do it.

 

To be clear, I have no issues with farming, as I have stated continuously, as I am sure you have read.

 

I have offered detailed reasons with proof and others have as well on why, specifically, AE with it's egregiously high rate of return drives rampant inflation. I'll even leave the debate on new player retention aside for now.

 

To be clear, farming in AE, farming anywhere, playing any content is ok by me.

 

Rewards from any content  that are far outside the acceptable standard deviation about the median have a detrimental effect on the economy, the core premise and design of the system as a whole and the health of the community.

[Zeraphia]

I've never seen such discontentment for people who powerlevel before on a thread. Look, the level 1-50 experience is great, and I've done it myself several times and had a blast doing so. However, I'm sorry but Twinshot arc just does not feel good doing for the 14th time. Many builds don't feel good at all until they are level 50 (a lot of super strength builds, illusion controllers). 

 

Maybe people should accept that AE power-leveling is here to stay and no, it's probably not the actual reason for the loss of players in the game. I find it extremely tedious to do as well as most people. Most people I know don't use AE for getting emp merits. They usually powerlevel up to 50 and then sometimes to unlock the Alpha slot, almost never do they go far beyond that and go for emp merits. 

 

Just personal belief, I don't get the sense that the playerbase loss is due to AE or anything honestly to do with it. I believe it's the fact that there isn't much new interesting zone/area content or large story arcs added to the game. And that's not me complaining or saying that the devs should get on their horses right now and create all of this and rush out a shoddy area, it's just me saying the truth. The game can get kind of boring to the average player who has gotten their 50s, gotten their badges, done what they wanted, and feels like there's not a ton else for them to really do.

[Astralock]

1 hour ago, Zeraphia said:

I've never seen such discontentment for people who powerlevel before on a thread. Look, the level 1-50 experience is great, and I've done it myself several times and had a blast doing so. However, I'm sorry but Twinshot arc just does not feel good doing for the 14th time. Many builds don't feel good at all until they are level 50 (a lot of super strength builds, illusion controllers). 

 

Maybe people should accept that AE power-leveling is here to stay and no, it's probably not the actual reason for the loss of players in the game. I find it extremely tedious to do as well as most people. Most people I know don't use AE for getting emp merits. They usually powerlevel up to 50 and then sometimes to unlock the Alpha slot, almost never do they go far beyond that and go for emp merits. 

 

Just personal belief, I don't get the sense that the playerbase loss is due to AE or anything honestly to do with it. I believe it's the fact that there isn't much new interesting zone/area content or large story arcs added to the game. And that's not me complaining or saying that the devs should get on their horses right now and create all of this and rush out a shoddy area, it's just me saying the truth. The game can get kind of boring to the average player who has gotten their 50s, gotten their badges, done what they wanted, and feels like there's not a ton else for them to really do.

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

[blue4333]

8 minutes ago, Astralock said:

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

 

Then maybe the new player is not interested in the superhero IP at all? They might just be a casual player that see games as an achievement to get to max and leave - same as WoW or other end-game MMOs.

[MoonSheep]

6 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

If these threads are to be believed, to a certain portion of the forum population we already are. I'm sure Moon and UA and others like them would just be *HEARTBROKEN* if all of us pulled up proverbial stakes and moved elsewhere. 😝

 

 

can you imagine a world without AE?

 

 

*shudders*

 

😛

[Zeraphia]

12 minutes ago, Astralock said:

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

A few key points to address what you're saying:

• This may be, if we consider your argument, one of the reasons that new player retention is not doing well with homecoming. I doubt that this is the largest reason, nor the most easily addressed reason. 
• I will admit, I don't hang around AP super often. However, when I do, I usually see people advertising for DFB pretty frequently, maybe times have really changed and AE farm advertisements have gone absolutely through the roof since I last spend a significant amount of time there, but I'd still guess that DFB is about equal to AE advertising. 
• Citadel is a level 25 Task Force. A brand new player at level 5 or so would not be looking to join a Citadel Task Force. Further, there are in-game incentives to joining a Citadel Task Force that AE does not provide (accolades). 
• If a new player does generously get PL'd by a veteran player so that they can enjoy the newbie's powersets, I'd honestly think that would incentivize them to keep playing. It creates a sense of belonging for the new player "wow this community is so nice." And they get to try out a bunch of different cool powers for their character they otherwise would have to wait longer to enjoy. It keeps the player interested/engaged.
• If you are PL'ing someone you don't know for free out of generosity, that is a very nice and commendable thing. Don't let people tell you otherwise. What you're doing is valued.
• It's not hard to figure out how to get to another zone. If this theoretical new player can figure out how to use the LFG chat tab/broadcast to find an AE farming group (they'll likely have no idea what it even is), I'm certain they could type in broadcast how to get to a designated zone or look the answer up on google. 
• As to the player being taught that AE is the entirety of the game, that may be a fair point but I don't believe that is how most ultimately view it. Most will consider enjoying the content the game has to offer and try the new exciting missions the game has. 
• Even with the previous point above, if they truly believe it's all about farming, and they enjoy farming and keep playing, is there really anything wrong with it? I find it tediously boring and can't stand farming for anything beyond power leveling, but there are several who make entire AE farm story arcs with intricate dialogues and thematics through the AE system to keep the farming fresh for themselves. 

In short, I don't see how any of these problems that you're pointing out have actual merit to trash power-leveling entirety. What you're describing is player-interactive behaviors which is more of a social thing than an actual game problem. The solution to this would be to have AE more properly established as the intended custom story arc missions and farming center, and that it is not the core essence of the game, just a popular feature of the game. And in fact, if you were to look for it, it says so many places. 

[Coyotedancer]

2 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

can you imagine a world without AE?

 

 

*shudders*

 

😛

 

You do realize that just getting rid of AE wouldn't get rid of farmers or pawer-levelers, don't you? Those activities were a City feature long, long before AE was even a twinkle in some Live dev's eye.

 

Me,,, I just finished rebuilding my Old School "fireproof scrapper" just for fun, That particular build, which was my farming go-to back in the day, can tear a hole through Harvey's demon mission just as easily as my zen-mode brute can take apart a fire farm. Testing her out? It's about equal to a run through the highway tunnel map. A bit slower since she doesn't have Burn, but not by much.  

 

Sorry to burst that daydream, Moon. But we farmers are an adaptable lot.

And stubborn. 

 

It comes with being the Root of All Evil. 😆

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[Nurvus]

4 hours ago, Astralock said:

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

 

I've actually had some friends show interest in trying out CoH, and I'd probably consider suggesting that they eventually set up two accounts so they can farm and be self-sufficient. If you never played CoH back in the day, the game is *very rough* by today's standards. What it does have going for it that's quite unique is IO builds and the ability to basically break the game. I haven't played another MMO that lets you overpower enemies to such a degree. On the flipside, not many games start you off in such a weak state either. Strip away all of the nostalgia and the low-level CoH experience is absolutely abysmal. That's what I personally see as the major turn-off for new players and why I'd show my friends how to farm eventually. The brilliance of CoH is character concepts and builds, and AE is a huge convenience towards getting to the good stuff.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Nurvus

[Black Zot]

AE farmers are the primary source for all those relatively cheap IOs on Wentworth's people use to build their characters.  Kill AE, and that source dries up - and in turn, the now-nonexistent IO supply sends prices through the roof, at the same time as killing off one of the major sources of currency to pay those prices.

 

You want IO builds (the gateway to most of the fun the game has to offer) to be out of reach of all but the richest players?  This is how you do it.

 

If you're one of those jackasses who thinks Emmert was onto something with his "players should struggle against minions" BS, that probably sounds pretty good.  But you'll be enjoying your Dark Souls knockoff in a big empty, because anyone who valued their ability to solo above -1x1 will soon be gone.

[Excraft]

10 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Nah.  It's WAY too easy to defeat that measure.

 

Plus, that's the kind of measure the devs want to avoid because it will inevitably harm non-farmers.  Someone is running one of the horrific missions (like find the 18 stage magicians on the Orenbega map), they're 90% done and have a child/pet/whatever emergency.  Game logs them out and they have to start from scratch.  That has the potential to infuriate people who are doing nothing but dealing with a real-life emergency.

 

Fair enough but if you're getting interrupted with that much real life stuff while playing that this is a problem for you, maybe you should log off and deal with stuff that's more important? 

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Black Zot said:

AE farmers are the primary source for all those relatively cheap IOs on Wentworth's people use to build their characters.  Kill AE, and that source dries up - and in turn, the now-nonexistent IO supply sends prices through the roof, at the same time as killing off one of the major sources of currency to pay those prices.

 

You want IO builds (the gateway to most of the fun the game has to offer) to be out of reach of all but the richest players?  This is how you do it.

 

If you're one of those jackasses who thinks Emmert was onto something with his "players should struggle against minions" BS, that probably sounds pretty good.  But you'll be enjoying your Dark Souls knockoff in a big empty, because anyone who valued their ability to solo above -1x1 will soon be gone.

I'm sorry, that's not how economics works.

 

This is completely false, farmers are not a primary source of goods on the market, let alone low priced goods. All goods in this economy are normal and substitutable, which is the chief cause of the AVAILABLITY of "cheap iOS," as you put it.

 

In fact, if you had read the posts by myself and others, instead of just "thumbs down" every post that discusses the real issue, you would have learned this.

 

Using the exploitive rate of return in AE generates currency at a rate that is MAGNITUDES greater than any other content, thereby driving inflation and increasing prices. Proof of this was posted. Prices, in fact, dropped, when rampant currency creation was curbed by shutting off double inf generation after 50.

 

Instead of resorting to personal attacks, such as calling people "jackasses," you may well find great information, learn something you didn't know and thereby not end up posting something that is flagrantly inaccurate and contradicting yourself in your own post.

[Excraft]

6 hours ago, Astralock said:

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

 

What a nice story.  It's a complete fabrication and a textbook example of a correlation fallacy, but it's a nice story.  Your anecdotal "evidence" doesn't prove anything without real, provable data to back it up.

 

So much wrong with this story -

 

• "I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong."

How do you know?  Show us your data.  Where is your data on numbers of unique accounts being created to back this up?  How are you defining "new player"?  How are you verifying they are in fact a "new player" and not a vet rolling another account?

 

• "A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character. " 

What about players who make characters on the other shards? 

 

• "The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park."

What if they started as a villain?  There are verifiable numbers of people playing as villains.  That much is provable by looking at the server status page.

 

• "Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor."

This entire paragraph is fabricated nonsense.  Never once have I ever seen a farmer tell anyone in broadcast or other channel that people shouldn't join other teams or run other content.  If you have legitimate, unaltered screen captures or video recordings of the chat that can show this is happening, by all means post it.  Otherwise, this is just bullshit.

 

• "The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters."

How does a brand new player know how to ask to join a team if they aren't familiar with how to use the various chat channels and/or tells yet?  Again, where is your actual data to back this up?  How do you know for certain what this evil farmer supposedly said or didn't say to this "new player"?

 

• "The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return."

How do you know for certain they will never come back?

 

• "Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation."

This is textbook example of an anecdotal evidence fallacy. 

 

• "AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off."

 

This is a fine thesis to have.  You're going to have to do a much, much, much better job of proving it than making up stories and trying to pass them off as facts.   Bullshit is bullshit, no matter how many times you repeat it.

[Puma]

7 hours ago, Astralock said:

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

 
1.  As has been pointed out, by me, it is ALSO one reason for player retention.  I would like you to give me actual data to back up the assertion that AE farming has any noticeable impact on player retention numbers.  If you can't, then please stop making this claim as if it's fact. 

2.  Your entire hypothetical about what a "new player sees" is ridiculous and frankly condescending.  First, I would wager a large amount of money that VERY FEW people coming to HC are people who never played CoH.  Second...is this the only game you've ever played?  I mean, I played TSW when CoH was shut down, as we well Champions, etc. Im playing Outriders right now.    And in all of them, I got shortcuts.  Heck, I'd look up shortcuts online, join with established players who would help, etc. In Outriders right now I'm basically "farming" a few select initial map moments to get loot drops for better weapons.   Never once was I stupid enough to NOT understand that there was more to the game.  Neither are the new players on HC.   Seriously...your hypothetical is hyperbolic at the least, and more likely, just outright wrong and built around your own feelings about the issue and how dumb you think farming is and the people who do it are. 

I could just as easily come up with some argument that outside of farming, "New players log in to a game about being a super hero and what do they see?  They see that they can only do like one or two attacks and a normal street mob can kill them or take five minutes to fight.  They want to quit because that's not very super heroic and feels really slow. Then they join a DFB and think the entire game is just running through sewer maps with a group hitting stuff randomly until you come to an EB, and people start yellow not to hit anyone but him, or hit everyone else BUT  him, and  get back because you didn't know one of your new attacks was an AoE and cost them something called a "badge", whatever that is. So you quit and never come back."  It would be just as absurd and condescending as your hypothetical. 

  

3.  As has been pointed out by MANY in this thread with their OWN first hand experience, PLing and AE farming has POSITIVELY impacted the health and longevity of the HC community as some of us who are bored to tears with the established content that we've running hundreds of times already can shortcut the parts we don't and can log in and easily feel "super" for a while when hanging with friends in a farm and try out more of the myriad combos of unique characters that are the game's real strength.  And since THOSE players ALSO contribute and donate to keep the servers running, they are just as important.  

Edited July 28, 2022 by Puma

[Glacier Peak]

11 hours ago, Troo said:

Players... or accounts?

The Server Status tab at the top of the page displays # of Players AND their Hero or Villain alignment. 

[Parabola]

Well this thread is serving predictably little purpose. Other than filling out my ignore list so that's something I suppose.

 

I fail to see what is so threatening or even controversial about the idea that different in game activities should have rough parity in rewards/time but there we go. Apparently by saying that I'm accusing people of badwrongfun and trying to change the way they play. I don't see it myself.

[Bionic_Flea]

1 minute ago, Puma said:

First, I would wager a large amount of money

How much are we talking about here?

[Puma]

5 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

How much are we talking about here?

Well, I know you're a farmer, so 2 hundredytrillion inf, which I hear can be made in 10 minutes in the AE by any Emp/Trick Arrow defender you want.  

Edited July 28, 2022 by Puma

[Bionic_Flea]

You have an Emp/Trick Arrow?  HAX!

 

Also, I'm disappointed.  You said money not inf.  Farming for real money is hard work and no where near as profitable!

[Puma]

19 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

The Server Status tab at the top of the page displays # of Players AND their Hero or Villain alignment. 

 

[Puma]

4 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

You have an Emp/Trick Arrow?  HAX!

 

Also, I'm disappointed.  You said money not inf.  Farming for real money is hard work and no where near as profitable!

Monsanto begs to differ. 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Puma

[Bionic_Flea]

5 minutes ago, Puma said:

Monsanto begs to differ. 

[roleki]

11 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Players... or accounts?

 

Oooh, good question.  Shit!  What if it's just been the 6 of us all along?

 

11 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

 

I respect your reasons for why you do it.

 

To be clear, I have no issues with farming, as I have stated continuously, as I am sure you have read.

 

I have offered detailed reasons with proof and others have as well on why, specifically, AE with it's egregiously high rate of return drives rampant inflation. I'll even leave the debate on new player retention aside for now.

 

To be clear, farming in AE, farming anywhere, playing any content is ok by me.

 

Rewards from any content  that are far outside the acceptable standard deviation about the median have a detrimental effect on the economy, the core premise and design of the system as a whole and the health of the community.

 

I swear I am not trying to move the goalposts, but I worded the question you answered wrong.  I need to see proof that SYMPTOMS of inflation have affected anyone, anywhere.  LotG have been at ~7M for the better part of two years and are still so today.  All those little Kismets, Achilles' Heels and whatnot have been at 4-6M for the better part of two years and are still so today.  All the Dark Watcher's Despair have been at ~1M for the better part of two years and are still so today.   

 

I mean, pick an enhancement, it's been that way for two years.   All across the board - and outside of emotional transactions during peak hours - enhancement prices have been pretty much etched in granite for nearly two years.  

 

If that's inflation, then yes please, doctor, give me the inflation.