Raising PvP Zone -level enforcement- NON RV

[Bionic_Flea]

I'm sorry.  I don't understand that logic.

 

Do you think that free PvP 50s will bring more players?  It certainly might, although from reading the COH forums for the last  . . . 15 or so years, I don't it will bring many.  But if it makes your life easier that's fine by me.

 

I just don't see what raising the zone limits adds, except for greater disparity.

[Kataklysm]

14 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm sorry.  I don't understand that logic.

 

Do you think that free PvP 50s will bring more players?  It certainly might, although from reading the COH forums for the last  . . . 15 or so years, I don't it will bring many.  But if it makes your life easier that's fine by me.

 

I just don't see what raising the zone limits adds, except for greater disparity.

it's more of an observation over the years that people complain about de-leveled PvP being undesirable, forcing people to 50 would universalize the zone PvP experience.

in my 20 years in gaming, any time they give free max level characters in a game to make people try an underused feature, it usually causes a surpluss. I think it's unwise not to give new PvPers a zone that isn't RV, where the vets are ready to give them the business the way they have been giving people the business for years. Room to practice zone PvP at 50 is a good option if it means you can break away from a crowded zone to practice with some friends. I would be hesitant to walk head first into a battle I'm not prepared for.

secondly if they are easy to impliment, should also be easy to test, and un-implement after testing, if It isn't desirable.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Terius

[Troo]

45 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

They just get exemped to the existing levels.  What's wrong with that?

 

They want to be able to play the insta-50s with free accolades max incarnates in all the zones they can.

 

Basically,

we don't want to level,

we don't want to earn accolades,

we don't want to grind incarnates,

we've done it enough and are tired of it.

now that we're given everything, where can we go? we should 'fix' that too.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Troo

[Bionic_Flea]

*Shrug* And I think it is unwise to change the PvP zone levels. 

[Darmian]

Bloody Bay, Siren's Call and Warburg?  Make them PVE and add full content/arcs etc. I can't say that would be a popular choice with PVPers, but then again they're effectively dead zones for PVP anyway, so what difference does it make?

 

Practice?  Arenas.

 

Other than that?  Leave them as is.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Bloody Bay, Siren's Call and Warburg?  Make them PVE and add full content/arcs etc. I can't say that would be a popular choice with PVPers, but then again they're effectively dead zones for PVP anyway, so what difference does it make?

 

Practice?  Arenas.

 

Other than that?  Leave them as is.

Going to have to disagree with that. Even if only barely used, they are still used. So they should stay PvP zones for the PvP'ers.

 

Which would mean I agree with the leave them as is part though.

[Darmian]

Just now, Rudra said:

Going to have to disagree with that. Even if only barely used, they are still used. So they should stay PvP zones for the PvP'ers.

 

Which would mean I agree with the leave them as is part though.

Exactly.  My point is predicated on "if you are going to do anything with them then do this, otherwise..."

[Faultline]

3 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I did a few days ago and they would not give them to me.

 

Were you the right alignment? The missions from the various zones have been open to any level in order to earn the badge 'Behind Enemy Lines' a while ago.

[Faultline]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

Where is this 'official' policy?

 

Well, for one, stated in the screenshots that @Glacier Peak posted.

[SeraphimKensai]

As a retired pvper, before the proposed changes involving Temporal Warriors, I would of been against the idea of level raising these zones out of nostalgia and keeping options for pvp at various points in a toon's life. I used to be a big fan of hosting lvl 5, lvl 8, lvl 15 PvP event back on live.

 

With the proposed changes to the PvP system with Temporal Warriors, I'm inclined to be supportive of raising the level of these zones up to 50, but still allow lower level toons to participate, but by artificially change their.effective combat level up to lvl 50, that way non Temporal Warriors can still enter the zones to get shivans, or nukes, etc.

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Faultline said:

 

Were you the right alignment? The missions from the various zones have been open to any level in order to earn the badge 'Behind Enemy Lines' a while ago.

Wouldn't he automatically be the right alignment? When you enter a PvP zone, you can't talk to the enemy contact. You get droned.

[The_Warpact]

Ok I'm not reading through all this but, I did catch a couple things and these are my thoughts.

 

Go ahead and raise them to 50 the zones that is.

But, at the same times turn the current ones we have into Echo zones. That way if people still want to do low lvl pvp or lower lvls want nukes/shivans then they can still get them.

 

Just a thought. 

[Faultline]

21 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Wouldn't he automatically be the right alignment? When you enter a PvP zone, you can't talk to the enemy contact. You get droned.

 

Sorry, Temporal Warriors are internally a different alignment and they can't get missions, but I see how that was a bad way to ask the question.

[SeraphimKensai]

40 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Ok I'm not reading through all this but, I did catch a couple things and these are my thoughts.

 

Go ahead and raise them to 50 the zones that is.

But, at the same times turn the current ones we have into Echo zones. That way if people still want to do low lvl pvp or lower lvls want nukes/shivans then they can still get them.

 

Just a thought. 

I'm definitely okay with echo pvp zones as well.

[Greycat]

19 hours ago, Terius said:

PvE'ers go in those zones? Thats news to me. aside from badges.

 

Yes. Shivan runs, temp powers (I'll grab those instead of stealth pool powers,) and nuke runs are things that happen. Also hunts for NPCs - masks in BB, for instance, or obviously Shivans. (Not sure if you were counting those in the "aside from badges" or not.)

 

As far as "bumping the characters to 50?" What good would that do? If I go into BB at 15 and get "bumped" to 50, I'm still a level 15, with level 15's worth of powers, partial slotting, and a much smaller enhancement tray - and easy meat for a real level 50, who now has their full suite of abilities.

 

Honestly, I think the SK change done on live broke Siren's Call for me (almost as much as I13) - I enjoyed BB and SC because they weren't T9-offs, and once we had "SK = level +5 worht of powers,) primary T9s cam einto play. (Also skewed BB from a 15-25 zone, which at that level range is *already* an issue, to an effective 15-30.)

 

Bumping Warburg up I don't think would really be as big a deal. *shrug*

 

 

[Kataklysm]

4 hours ago, Darmian said:

"Practice?  Arenas."

"Exactly.  My point is predicated on "if you are going to do anything with them then do this, otherwise..."

arena PvP and zone PvP behave very different

Edited July 24, 2022 by Terius

[Troo]

7 hours ago, Faultline said:

 

Well, for one, stated in the screenshots that @Glacier Peak posted.

 

Ah, okay. So there is no 'official' policy to point to.

But there are clear warnings that pvp may happen in pvp zones.. I think this is understood.

 

What I had said was "in my opinion, these are Hazard Zones were PvP activities can take place. I don't glibly dismiss 90% of the game for 10%".

A) That's my opinion.

B) Below is an example he provided which, if we read the white text, mostly refers to activities in the zone where we (now red text) may also face an opposing player.

 

13 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

 

Note: Activities are guaranteed where as PvP might happen. It was also this way at the height of PvP and as such the basis of my opinion.

 

Please feel free to data mine how many Arachnos vs Longbow battles have happened versus how many PvP defeats have happened in Siren's Call. That data might change my opinion.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Troo
added "(now red text)"

[Troo]

5 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Go ahead and raise them to 50 the zones that is.

But, at the same times turn the current ones we have into Echo zones. That way if people still want to do low lvl pvp or lower lvls want nukes/shivans then they can still get them.

 

This is a good idea. It would allow time to polish up the new zones and address the many associated issues while retaining existing functions.

 

We could even call the zones for the Temporal Warriors something interesting which could explain the break from normal play.. maybe Temporal Zones.

 

 

[America's Angel]

Current tally, here and on the various PvP Discords this has been shared on:

• Option 1 (All zones to 50) = 7 votes
• Option 2 (BB to 30, SC+Warburg to 50) = 19 votes
• Option 3 (No change) = 17 votes

 

[Faultline]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Ah, okay. So there is no 'official' policy to point to.

 

The official policy is that PVP zones are for PVP first and foremost. 

 

1 hour ago, Troo said:

What I had said was "in my opinion, these are Hazard Zones were PvP activities can take place. I don't glibly dismiss 90% of the game for 10%".

A) That's my opinion.

B) Below is an example he provided which, if we read the white text, mostly refers to activities in the zone where we may also face an opposing player.

 

A) That is your opinion.

B) Below is an example he provided which, if you read the text very obviously highlighted in red, explicitly states do not enter unless you are willing to engage in Player Vs. Player combat.

 

 

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

8 hours ago, Terius said:

in my 20 years in gaming, any time they give free max level characters in a game to make people try an underused feature, it usually causes a surpluss.

No, PvP isn't "underused".  It's actively avoided by the vast majority of people because it's an activity they simply aren't interested in.  Temporal Warriors won't significantly change that any more than any other in a long line of attempts to induce people to PvP.

[Faultline]

52 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Current tally, here and on the various PvP Discords this has been shared on:

• Option 1 (All zones to 50) = 7 votes
• Option 2 (BB to 30, SC+Warburg to 50) = 19 votes
• Option 3 (No change) = 17 votes

 

You cannot combine votes from different sources since the same people could be voting on multiple (and likely are). Post links to this thread instead.

[Rudra]

21 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

No, PvP isn't "underused".  It's actively avoided by the vast majority of people because it's an activity they simply aren't interested in.  Temporal Warriors won't significantly change that any more than any other in a long line of attempts to induce people to PvP.

I can see a brief increase as players enticed by the instant fully developed character give it a try. That increase however, will likely be fleeting. And I'm willing to wager, not that noticeable. There have been multiple attempts to get more players to try PvP. Including throwing explore badges and a plaque required to complete the Swashbuckler lore badge when the PvP zones were initially launched.

 

As you said though, most players I know actively avoid PvP and have no interest in trying it no matter the incentive. Though they have to risk and deal with PvP when they go for the badges in the PvP zones.

 

In the end, the Temporal Warriors bit will most likely see use by current PvP players as a means to try out different builds against each other since they won't have to spend the time grinding for everything. And I'm willing to bet that will be the extent of it. I'm not a seer though, so who knows. Maybe it will entice PvE players to try PvP on a more routine basis. Even if not, it gives PvP players something new to try. Maybe even deviate from or create new FotMs I was used to hearing change regularly back on Live.

 

However, its use as a reason for this thread is superfluous in my opinion. The line that the experienced PvP players will stay in RV while the less experienced ones go to BB, SC, or WB as 50s to practice? I don't see that happening. PvP players will go to the zone where they can find PvP.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to correct "it's" to "its".

[Kataklysm]

18 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

No, PvP isn't "underused".  It's actively avoided by the vast majority of people because it's an activity they simply aren't interested in.  Temporal Warriors won't significantly change that any more than any other in a long line of attempts to induce people to PvP.

What are you backing this claim up with. I've not heard that as the overwhelming opinion as I've asked around about PvP, by any means. I'm open that that opinion but I'd like to see it a lot more if that is the truth.

[Rudra]

Well, part of it can be seen in the PvP zone populations.

 

Edit: Another part can be seen by perusing some of the earlier PvP suggestion threads. Though some of the responses can be emphatic. Including my own.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Rudra