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Another nail in the Brute coffin


Snarky
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1 minute ago, Gobbledegook said:

That is because you don't read all posts and cherry pick what you want. You jumped in part way through and cherry picked loI

 

I am now. Whatever i say you guys want to believe it another way. Carry on i don't really care but i tell you now it was not my intention, i actually was trying to give alternatives as to why. You are the ones failing. I am doing fine thanks. I will leave you guys to work it out. 🙂

 

It is not cherry-piciking to read English like one is taught how to read in school and how it is commonly practiced. Perhaps you should try using the language properly.

 

As for leaving, I am doubtful anyone is going to miss your contributions to the thread.

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2 hours ago, Snarky said:

To be clear.  This person is not saying “Git Gud”

I think at this point you knew there was only one way this was going. You misinterpreted my post completely. No matter what i say you will believe the same.But i am telling you now YOU ARE WRONG! sincerely.

 

You have a serious chip on your shoulder. Don't always look for the worst it could just be a simple misunderstanding. Yet you know best ll.

 

My only crime was a may have skipped a corner here and there.  I have asked for this thread to be closed as it serves no pupose other than to whine. Nothing constructive about it.

 

If you are failing at a task/mission then it is usually down to some reasons like difficulty setting, build, team etc etc. try mixing some things up rather than pointing the finger. Better still when you have a bad experience in game don't open a thread in the forums to whine about it, then bitch at people trying to offer some advice.

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16 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

I have asked for this thread to be closed as it serves no pupose other than to whine. Nothing constructive about it.

You have asked the GMs to censor me.   Interesting.  You may find some luck there.  I was censored once for complaining about a April Fools joke the Devs pulled on us a couple years back.  I quit the game for six months.  Censorship is the last resort of the small minded when they cannot control the world in any other way.  

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2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

You have asked the GMs to censor me.   Interesting.  You may find some luck there.  I was censored once for complaining about a April Fools joke the Devs pulled on us a couple years back.  I quit the game for six months.  Censorship is the last resort of the small minded when they cannot control the world in any other way.  

Not censor you, you don't deserve that but this thread is a lost cause. Yet again seeing more into  than there is.

Edited by Gobbledegook
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27 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Not censor you, you don't deserve that but this thread is a lost cause. Yet again seeing more into  than there is.

Here is an idea.  Probably a lost cause, I already know.  If you do not like my thread...FIND OTHER CONTENT ON THE INTERNET

 

 

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On 8/25/2022 at 5:17 PM, Snarky said:

Now we see a change in agro that puts more pressure on Brutes armor by having anyone you agro (even past 17) just plink at you with any ranged attacks they have.  While Brutes have almost no response other than suck it up. 

 

I'm curious about this part of your original post. While I agree with the statement, I don't see why it's necessarily limited to brutes. Doesn't this apply to, ignoring tankers, most melee ATs? I haven't played every AT so maybe I'm missing something but can you add some details about why Scrappers, Stalkers, Sentinels, etc wouldn't be as affected as Brutes by these changes?

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Of you think brutes are bad off go run an MM on s hardmode ITF. 😂

 

But seriously, Brutes are not that bad off.  They could just use a little love. 

 

Thinking off the cuff here, something like having their base defense numbers split the difference with tanks and scrappers. Better than a scrapper defensively when solo but less than a tank.

 

And perhaps keep the same relative damage cap in real numbers with a smidge better base number. 

 

IDK, I don't think they need much at all, just a little somethin' somethin'.

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38 minutes ago, thunder_crane said:

 

I'm curious about this part of your original post. While I agree with the statement, I don't see why it's necessarily limited to brutes. Doesn't this apply to, ignoring tankers, most melee ATs? I haven't played every AT so maybe I'm missing something but can you add some details about why Scrappers, Stalkers, Sentinels, etc wouldn't be as affected as Brutes by these changes?

It does indeed put more pressure on all ATs.  But my specific thought was the difference between Tanks and Brutes.  I believe this will affect Brute players much more often.  

 

This goes back to ROFLSTOMP leapfrog Brute chaos play from the beginning of the AT.  Nevessitated by Fury and applauded by (some?most!few...) teammates who needed a Redside Tank.  A Brute grabs as much agro as indiscriminately as possible.  A Tank player on the other hand can calmly choose which groups to agro, use kiting, pulls, compartmentalizing of combat areas, goal strategies, etc.  A Brute.  Leroooooooy Jenkkkkingssssss

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23 minutes ago, Snarky said:

It does indeed put more pressure on all ATs.  But my specific thought was the difference between Tanks and Brutes.  I believe this will affect Brute players much more often.  

 

This goes back to ROFLSTOMP leapfrog Brute chaos play from the beginning of the AT.  Nevessitated by Fury and applauded by (some?most!few...) teammates who needed a Redside Tank.  A Brute grabs as much agro as indiscriminately as possible.  A Tank player on the other hand can calmly choose which groups to agro, use kiting, pulls, compartmentalizing of combat areas, goal strategies, etc.  A Brute.  Leroooooooy Jenkkkkingssssss

In my case it's a deliberate build choice. My Tankers take Taunt. My Brutes do not. But it's not like they can't Taunt. I just prefer Punchvoke because Bruting is not Tanking. Bruting is active and aggressive whereas Tankers bring the aggression to them. 

 

Still, you need a strong herding game to challenge a Brute in addition to an AoE focused build. 

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One thing that needs to be addressed is that while a Tanker can show up a Brute now, it's not going to happen on the cheap. You will certainly be able to make a nice defensive build, but being a solid wall that can clear is another thing altogether. Conversely, I can make a pretty fine Brute with yellow enhancements. 

 

Snarky mentioned the playstyle from when the AT was released. Go in and start hitting stuff. You are the Brute, not some sort of protector. Your priority is #1. You. If you happen to soak alpha while Bruting then great. But you are not there to hold anyone's hand and unless specified beforehand, you should not be expected to be The Tank. 

 

Take a look at the ATs that came out with the Brute: Corruptors, Dominators, Stalkers, and Masterminds. All these guys can be pretty independent. There's a reason my God Build is a Corruptor. While you are soaking Alpha, the Dom is locking things down, the Corruptor is making life difficult, and the Mastermind is picking foes off, while the Stalker shanks the bosses. If you are a Brute taking the Alpha, then your job is done. Everyone else is there to pick up the slack while you slap around entire mobs. But they are not supposed to wait for you to herd. 

 

If I were to question the existence of an AT, I would not pick Brutes. I would pick Scrappers. I only have a Scrapper because I felt I needed one. She's Street Justice/Willpower and awesome, but she doesn't really excel at anything that can't be accomplished by a Brute or Stalker. 

 

Back in the day, I cannot think of a more iconic duo than one Brute and one Corruptor. That used to be my favorite way of playing. You got muscle, you got ranged muscle, you got control. Plus, unlike a Tanker/Blaster pair, you don't have one AT doing the majority of damage, unless that Tanker is optimized and the player has strong herding skills. 

 

So a strong point in a Brute's favor is that you can get them up to speed without breaking the bank. But if you have bank, they are even better. When I play a Tanker, I am there to be the Tank. When I play a Brute, I am there to hurt things, and the squishies better pay attention because I am not holding their hands.

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As long as people think that the 'AoE buff' matters things will always lean towards how Tankers got it so much better. And yet Brutes clear maps faster than Tankers, uh, almost like the 'AoE buff' is useless outside farming (and even then Brutes STILL finish maps faster).

 

A Brute in hard content that has buffs from the team is as hardy as a Tanker. The Tanker just (most of the time) does not require buffs from the team.

 

 

These discussions invariably are about feels which makes arguments complicated.

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22 minutes ago, Sovera said:

As long as people think that the 'AoE buff' matters things will always lean towards how Tankers got it so much better. And yet Brutes clear maps faster than Tankers, uh, almost like the 'AoE buff' is useless outside farming (and even then Brutes STILL finish maps faster).

 

A Brute in hard content that has buffs from the team is as hardy as a Tanker. The Tanker just (most of the time) does not require buffs from the team.

 

 

These discussions invariably are about feels which makes arguments complicated.

 

There is a thread where the same content gets run by different ATs which I think you're familiar with. Brutes are not clearing faster in that thread.

 

As example: 

 

 

You do respond in that thread as if this is some sort of peculiarity of SS, but the same buy who posted the 3:50 time with the Tanker did the mission with an SS/FA Brute, which according to you should do it faster and the result was: 

 

The usual hallmark in the thread is posting success times without dying. He managed to make the same time only by dying. Had he been avoiding deaths he would have been slower.

 

Same powersets, same content, only differing by AT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

There is a thread where the same content gets run by different ATs which I think you're familiar with. Brutes are not clearing faster in that thread.

Are we making sure that builds are mostly even with regards to enhancement cost and the like? My billion INF Tanker is pretty nifty, but would a 500 million INF Tanker stack up against a 500 million INF Brute?

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32 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Are we making sure that builds are mostly even with regards to enhancement cost and the like? My billion INF Tanker is pretty nifty, but would a 500 million INF Tanker stack up against a 500 million INF Brute?

 

But does that even matter? Various builds have various performance at various levels, or investment levels. 

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40 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Are we making sure that builds are mostly even with regards to enhancement cost and the like? My billion INF Tanker is pretty nifty, but would a 500 million INF Tanker stack up against a 500 million INF Brute?

 

The builds are both listed in the second post. 

 

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Just now, Thrax said:

Go play a sentinel for a few hundred levels. Then come back here and try to complain about brutes. Drop mic. 

 

I believe I have posts in the Sentinel forum advocating for Sentinel changes.

 

Why do some people seem to think saying AT <X> needs something means that AT <Y> does not?

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12 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I believe I have posts in the Sentinel forum advocating for Sentinel changes.

 

Why do some people seem to think saying AT <X> needs something means that AT <Y> does not?

That isn’t what I was saying at all. Read it again. It’s not either it but sentinels way worse than brutes could ever hope to be. 

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3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

The builds are both listed in the second post. 

 

I'll take a look. I know a high end Tanker can keep pace with a Brute, but I wonder about one built on all yellow enhancements. I think more players have not so optimized builds than high end ones, so that is the performance I am wondering about. 

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