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Another nail in the Brute coffin


Snarky
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We remember the great Fury nerf.  We saw Tankers get a huge AoE increase.  We saw new content (Dr Aeon) that specifically rewards 100% resistance values. (Resistance value is it’s Res debuff Res!) and that favors Tanks by far.  Now we see a change in agro that puts more pressure on Brutes armor by having anyone you agro (even past 17) just plink at you with any ranged attacks they have.  While Brutes have almost no response other than suck it up.  I am walking away from the Titannic that is the Brute AT.  My first love.  But there are only so many lifeboats and I am not going to the bottom

Edited by Snarky
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Well, the same aggro problems apply to Scrappers and they don't even get decent resists.  I make jokes that they want City of Tanks, but, come on.  It's on rails now.

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I tend to agree. My Inv Brute, and my DA Scrapper are both struggling with that new Cimerora arc. My Fire tank does not have that problem.

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IDK I've done two or three star all Blaster and all Dom hard mode ITFs.  So if they can do it I'm sure that brutes can too.  

 

Perhaps we could all improve our aggro management skills.  

 

That said I do agree that brutes need some TLC because I too would rather tank or scrap, depending on the job, than brute.

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I couldn't disagree more.  The truth is that Brutes stunk from the beginning.  It's not just now.

 

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Brutes are tougher than Scrappers and do more damage than Tankers,.... what is the problem. A tanker being able to survive better in tougher content is normal lol. The damage the buffed mobs are putting out is possibly overwhelming Brutes/Scrappers with their lower mitigations and health but that could be a build/power creep problem or it could be the aggro caps. But those 2 ATs do more damage than Tankers by quite a bit.

 

Brutes have the same resist caps as Tankers, it is just harder to achieve caps for them, but that is why we have team buffers and temp powers.

 

If you can not handle harder content then maybe you need a better build, better team composition or do lower content. Try looking into that first.

Edited by Gobbledegook
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7 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Brutes are tougher than Scrappers and do more damage than Tankers,.... what is the problem. A tanker being able to survive better in tougher content is normal lol. The damage the buffed mobs are putting out is possibly overwhelming Brutes/Scrappers with their lower mitigations and health but that could be a build/power creep problem or it could be the aggro caps. But those 2 ATs do more damage than Tankers by quite a bit.

 

Brutes have the same resist caps as Tankers, it is just harder to achieve caps for them, but that is why we have team buffers and temp powers.

 

If you can not handle harder content then maybe you need a better build, better team composition or do lower content. Try looking into that first.

While “Git Gud” is always a funny response….

 

I have been running Brutes since I picked up “Good vs Evil” from a game store.  
 

Brutes took a major hit when Fury got nerfed.  But they were, when run well and the stars aligned, out damaging Scrappers

 

Incarnate content is heavy with damage patches that punish melee damage dealers.   I cannot run a Brute in Really Hard Way Magisterium, it is a joke to try.  

 

Then Tanks got a rather generous AoE buff and Brutes got…. Absolutely Nothing

 

Then the new content threw out stuff that rewarded 100% resist values.   That is generally Tanker level.  Yes the cap is 90 but the back of card value is important for Res debuff Res

 

Now there is an artificial way to go over agro cap.  Brutes still need (not strategically like Tankers) to agro as much as possible to pump Fury.  But now anyone with a Ranged attack has a Brute to shoot at if they are bored.  
 

Not waiting around for the Dev team to reroll the old playlist and nerf Fury again or some other new mechanic that punishes Brutes
 

Pretty much done unless there is a major revamp that excites me.  Since this Dev staff is working hard on non Brute stuff and (from what I can tell) could not give a crap less about Brute players I am going to let this be my swan song


so no, I will not “Git Gud”

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Feel your pain @Snarky, kind of how I am feeling on the MMs that I adore. Did a few of the new 3 star content and so on, and there was purple stuff everywhere, which is more or less insta-death to most pets. Especially during big boss fights, where you can't be spamming resummon pets every 10 seconds. The aggro change didn't affect us much, we had extended aggro already. But the harder difficulties aren't very friendly to MMs, at least the one's I have seen so far.

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23 hours ago, Snarky said:

We remember the great Fury nerf.  We saw Tankers get a huge AoE increase.  We saw new content (Dr Aeon) that specifically rewards 100% resistance values. (Resistance value is it’s Res debuff Res!) and that favors Tanks by far.  Now we see a change in agro that puts more pressure on Brutes armor by having anyone you agro (even past 17) just plink at you with any ranged attacks they have.  While Brutes have almost no response other than suck it up.  I am walking away from the Titannic that is the Brute AT.  My first love.  But there are only so many lifeboats and I am not going to the bottom

I have to pay a BIT more attention than before on my Dark/Dark Brute. That's it. That's the impact. 

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1 hour ago, Snarky said:

While “Git Gud” is always a funny response….

 

I have been running Brutes since I picked up “Good vs Evil” from a game store.  
 

Brutes took a major hit when Fury got nerfed.  But they were, when run well and the stars aligned, out damaging Scrappers

 

Incarnate content is heavy with damage patches that punish melee damage dealers.   I cannot run a Brute in Really Hard Way Magisterium, it is a joke to try.  

 

Then Tanks got a rather generous AoE buff and Brutes got…. Absolutely Nothing

 

Then the new content threw out stuff that rewarded 100% resist values.   That is generally Tanker level.  Yes the cap is 90 but the back of card value is important for Res debuff Res

 

Now there is an artificial way to go over agro cap.  Brutes still need (not strategically like Tankers) to agro as much as possible to pump Fury.  But now anyone with a Ranged attack has a Brute to shoot at if they are bored.  
 

Not waiting around for the Dev team to reroll the old playlist and nerf Fury again or some other new mechanic that punishes Brutes
 

Pretty much done unless there is a major revamp that excites me.  Since this Dev staff is working hard on non Brute stuff and (from what I can tell) could not give a crap less about Brute players I am going to let this be my swan song


so no, I will not “Git Gud”

It is a shame you read that as a Git Gud post, it was not the intention at all. But build/team composition are certainly factors to consider.

 

Brutes were always good. Near Tanker survival with much better damage. Yes Tankers were buffed but now they are better and more fun, so that's a win in my eyes. Brutes did not need a buff. They do need a better AT proc though.

 

Melee damage dealers not surviving when Tankers can is probably normal. Brutes build fury easier than they ever have. If a Brute tanks it gets fury and if it hits mobs it gets fury. I have never had trouble building fury.

 

If you team and get some buffs then that Brute is sitting at Tanker level mitigation with superior damage. If you are trying to solo then i can see your point, but soloing requires being able to stay alive, which Tankers excel at.

 

Pick that dummy up!

 

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

 

If you can not handle harder content then maybe you need a better build, better team composition or do lower content. Try looking into that first.

You are seriously trying to say that you did not mean “Git Gud” or be a better player  or something similar when you posted this?

 

I honestly do not know why I even converse with humanity anymore

Edited by Snarky
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I made my Dark/Dark Brute AFTER both my Tankers were fully slotted and fully Incarnate. Why would I make a Brute if Tankers can do everything? Maybe all the Giant Monsters I've killed with her can provide an answer?

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2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

It is a shame you read that as a Git Gud post, it was not the intention at all. But build/team composition are certainly factors to consider.

 

Brutes were always good. Near Tanker survival with much better damage. Yes Tankers were buffed but now they are better and more fun, so that's a win in my eyes. Brutes did not need a buff. They do need a better AT proc though.

 

Melee damage dealers not surviving when Tankers can is probably normal. Brutes build fury easier than they ever have. If a Brute tanks it gets fury and if it hits mobs it gets fury. I have never had trouble building fury.

 

If you team and get some buffs then that Brute is sitting at Tanker level mitigation with superior damage. If you are trying to solo then i can see your point, but soloing requires being able to stay alive, which Tankers excel at.

 

Pick that dummy up!

 

 

 

Your position is self-contradictory. If it is all about team performance and Brutes just need the right team to fit in, then Tanks did not need a buff because (a) Tankers already fit into ALL teams already and (b) Tanker's role on the team was not dispatching targets but rather holding aggro. 

 

And no, Brutes do not have near Tanker survival. They have Scrapper survival because they get the same raw defense/resistance values as Scrappers and everyone shares the same ED limits. What Brutes have is higher caps for resistance than Scrappers have but they cannot reach those caps on their own or under SOs. I seem to recall a common mantra in these forums being the game is not meant to be balanced around the notion of IO set bonuses.

 

 

 

 

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Pity me. My graphics card died and I am getting by on a Radeon 5450. It is amazing how a 12-year-old graphics card struggles with an 18-year-old game.

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1 hour ago, Krimson said:

I made my Dark/Dark Brute AFTER both my Tankers were fully slotted and fully Incarnate. Why would I make a Brute if Tankers can do everything? Maybe all the Giant Monsters I've killed with her can provide an answer?

 

I am not sure why I made an Assault Rifle/Poison Corruptor and played him to 50, but I did. That does not say there is anything good about that combo. (In fact, it was mostly about the challenge.)

Pity me. My graphics card died and I am getting by on a Radeon 5450. It is amazing how a 12-year-old graphics card struggles with an 18-year-old game.

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1 hour ago, Krimson said:

I made my Dark/Dark Brute AFTER both my Tankers were fully slotted and fully Incarnate. Why would I make a Brute if Tankers can do everything? Maybe all the Giant Monsters I've killed with her can provide an answer?

Honest question:  What is it about the brute that allowed you to pull that off, and were your tanks also able to accomplish said feats?  For me, it's more about the margin for error with each AT;  On my tankers, I can pretty much just casually stroll into any fight and defeat the enemies at my own pace, whereas my stalker, scrapper, or brute live more on that knife's edge...

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27 minutes ago, biostem said:

Honest question:  What is it about the brute that allowed you to pull that off, and were your tanks also able to accomplish said feats?  For me, it's more about the margin for error with each AT;  On my tankers, I can pretty much just casually stroll into any fight and defeat the enemies at my own pace, whereas my stalker, scrapper, or brute live more on that knife's edge...

I made the Dark/Dark Brute for general purpose. Somehow, the damage is just really good. I highly doubt either of my Tankers are going to be taking down even Babbage or Kraken anytime soon. It was my first Giant Monster hunter, though my main Elec/Kin Corr can do it much better. 

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33 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

I am not sure why I made an Assault Rifle/Poison Corruptor and played him to 50, but I did. That does not say there is anything good about that combo. (In fact, it was mostly about the challenge.)

The build was completed in Mids before the toon was even made. I had an idea what I wanted from the get go. 

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13 hours ago, Snarky said:

You are seriously trying to say that you did not mean “Git Gud” or be a better player  or something similar when you posted this?

 

I honestly do not know why I even converse with humanity anymore

Yes i actually am. You are seeing way more into that post and need to take a chill pill. I actually mentioned aggro caps and team composition, yetyou had to pick out build and see it as git gud lol.

Edited by Gobbledegook
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12 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Your position is self-contradictory. If it is all about team performance and Brutes just need the right team to fit in, then Tanks did not need a buff because (a) Tankers already fit into ALL teams already and (b) Tanker's role on the team was not dispatching targets but rather holding aggro. 

 

And no, Brutes do not have near Tanker survival. They have Scrapper survival because they get the same raw defense/resistance values as Scrappers and everyone shares the same ED limits. What Brutes have is higher caps for resistance than Scrappers have but they cannot reach those caps on their own or under SOs. I seem to recall a common mantra in these forums being the game is not meant to be balanced around the notion of IO set bonuses.

 

 

 

 

Yes and you misread it also. Near Tanker survival with team buffs which i did mention. You can not solo what you can not survive. Tankers are built to survive.

A Brute could be a dps or Tank. Build, powersets, team etc can all cover weakness. Brutes are between Scrappers and Tankers. I have a few of each and know the difference.

Edited by Gobbledegook
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5 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Yes and you misread it also. Near Tanker survival with team buffs which i did mention. You can not solo what you can not survive. Tankers are built to survive.

 

I quote myself:

 

Quote

 If it is all about team performance and Brutes just need the right team to fit in, then Tanks did not need a buff because (a) Tankers already fit into ALL teams already and (b) Tanker's role on the team was not dispatching targets but rather holding aggro. 

 

So I addressed your team comment. The survival statement from you, in another paragraph, does not mention teams. Here, let me remind you:

 

Quote

Brutes were always good. Near Tanker survival with much better damage. Yes Tankers were buffed but now they are better and more fun, so that's a win in my eyes. Brutes did not need a buff. They do need a better AT proc though.

 

Not one bit about teams and wholly separated from your previous statement about teams by a blank line.  In English that means the two thoughts are separate as sentences which go together are grouped together in the same paragraph. Perhaps instead of me misreading you  miswrote?

 

 

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Pity me. My graphics card died and I am getting by on a Radeon 5450. It is amazing how a 12-year-old graphics card struggles with an 18-year-old game.

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1 minute ago, Gobbledegook said:

Obviously some of you are struggling with your Brute then. Maybe read a few forum posts and educate yourselves a little more.

 

When you get called out on this comment are you going to deny it being a version of, "Git  Gud"?

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Pity me. My graphics card died and I am getting by on a Radeon 5450. It is amazing how a 12-year-old graphics card struggles with an 18-year-old game.

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1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I quote myself:

 

 

So I addressed your team comment. The survival statement from you, in another paragraph, does not mention teams. Here, let me remind you:

 

 

Not one bit about teams and wholly separated from your previous statement about teams by a blank line.  In English that means the two thoughts are separate as sentences which go together are grouped together in the same paragraph. Perhaps instead of me misreading you  miswrote?

 

 

That is because you don't read all posts and cherry pick what you want. You jumped in part way through and cherry picked loI

 

I am now. Whatever i say you guys want to believe it another way. Carry on i don't really care but i tell you now it was not my intention, i actually was trying to give alternatives as to why. You are the ones failing. I am doing fine thanks. I will leave you guys to work it out. 🙂

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