Munitions Mastery - long overdue for a revamp?

[mlokc]

I'm playing a blaster and for the first time decided to try out Munitions Mastery as an epic. Everyone speaks so poorly of it, I've never tried it before. IMO, it's got a lot of potential, but it needs to be tweaked, and it's needed to be tweaked for quite a while.

Body Armor - Pretty lame, much worse than any other epic armor. The zero endurance cost doesn't compensate for its lack of bonus. Definitely needs a revamp.

 

Cryo Ray - OK, nothing special. Should be upgraded to be on par with Char.

Sleep Grenade - very situational. Other than a slot mule for purples, doesn't really serve much purpose.

Surveillance - actually a useful power. Devs should extend the duration, increase the debuffs, or make it an AoE power.

LRM - So much wasted potential here. Needs to be brought into line with comparable epic powers and either needs to have the interrupt time cut in half or allow slotting with snipe sets. So many times I've clicked it only to find the mob has been wiped out by my teammates before the shot can get off. Missile tech has come a long way since 2004. This is due for an upgrade.

The only reason to take this pool now is for thematic reasons. It desperately needs a revamp in order to join its epic siblings in popularity.

Anyone else agree?

 

[aethereal]

I think I see in your post the impression that if you slot an interruptible power with interrupt reduction enhancements, the total time between clicking the power and it firing is reduced.

 

That's not the case.  It will still take the same amount of time to fire the power.  Less of that time will be interruptible.

[Disruptor]

I used to take this for thematic reasons and I really like the idea of Body Armor and LRM conceptually. I'm almost positive Surveillance was added when they did the Epic pool revamp so this pool used to be even worse.

[Disruptor]

4 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I think I see in your post the impression that if you slot an interruptible power with interrupt reduction enhancements, the total time between clicking the power and it firing is reduced.

 

That's not the case.  It will still take the same amount of time to fire the power.  Less of that time will be interruptible.

 

Yea, to make a power faster they need to lower the activation time which is essentially the animation time. LRM activation time is 5.87s which is very long. Interrupt time is 4.00s

Edited November 2, 2022 by Disruptor

[weewoozesty]

I wouldn't mind the LRM's cast time being what it is if the payload it delivered was worth the wait.

 

Here's my idea with LRM.  Boost the damage, increase it's recharge and endurance cost. maintain it's current cast time replace it's explosive FX with the mushroom cloud you get in Radiation attacks. 

 

That's right, I'm suggesting that it be turned into a nuke launcher.

[JasperStone]

I agree with an upgrade.

I use body Armor for a Resist Procs

[biostem]

Body Armor - While not impressive by any measure, I feel it is in line with other such auto-resist powers.  Keep in mind that APP/PPP powers should not necessarily be better than primary or secondary powers.

 

Cryo Ray - The hold duration could use some improvement.

 

Sleep Grenade - I'm not a big fan of sleep powers.  Maybe the range could be improved so you could better put a group to sleep without aggroing any of them.

 

LRM - Maybe remove the interrupt time and/or give it the "extra damage if not yet in combat" buff.

[Fade]

As a long time Munitions Mastery user, I think the set has some benefits and some downsides.

Body Armor was much more useful before blasters had sustain powers, for sure. I don't know that it needs to be changed, but if it did get a buff of some kind I would rather it stay an auto power rather than turn into a toggle.
Cryo Freeze Ray is not much worse than the other holds available in the APPs/PPPs.

Sleep Grenade, I will admit I have never taken and never used. Could it get buffed? Probably!

Surveillance is a great power as is, I take it and I use it. No notes.

LRM Rocket is easily the most disappointing of the powers in the set. Its usable, but not nearly what you might expect when you take the power in the first place. If I were asking for the moon, I'd ask for it to receive the same treatment that the snipes did: keep it at the same damage if you use it out of combat, and give it a "fast snipe" version that reduces the damage it does proportionally to the other snipes, and let it use snipe IO sets. That would make it a great targeted AoE power for characters that want more of it (such as my Beam Rifle blaster). Then, if you wanted to buff its damage as well, I certainly wouldn't turn it down.

Also LRM Rocket has a redundant name.

I am copying Troo with my formatting in this part.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Fade said:

LRM Rocket is easily the most disappointing of the powers in the set. Its usable, but not nearly what you might expect when you take the power in the first place. If I were asking for the moon, I'd ask for it to receive the same treatment that the snipes did: keep it at the same damage if you use it out of combat, and give it a "fast snipe" version that reduces the damage it does proportionally to the other snipes, and let it use snipe IO sets. That would make it a great targeted AoE power for characters that want more of it (such as my Beam Rifle blaster). Then, if you wanted to buff its damage as well, I certainly wouldn't turn it down.

 

I'm just glad that we finally have some weapon customization on it, but I would still like to have the Council and/or 5th Column rocket launcher/bazooka as customization option.

[Uun]

I have Body Armor on one of my blasters and slotted it with the 2 +def uniques. It has the benefit of not dropping when mezzed. I could see increasing the S/L resistance value to 10.5% (half of Temp Invulnerability and equal to Tough).

 

Surveillance is very good as is. Slotted for recharge it can easily be made perma. Also doesn't aggro.

[Crasical]

Surveillance is actually good, Freeze Ray and Sleep gas are boring but functional (Though I always questioned Freeze ray in what's basically a 'military hardware' patron pool, it seems too futuristic), which basically leaves LRM and Body Armor as the problem children. Body Armor probably just needs its numbers jiggled a little, but LRM is kind of a mess of a power that doesn't really know what it wants to be. Looooong recharge, looooong cast time, interruptible, and the damage isn't quite enough to justify the previous three issues. I have it and I use it, but not because it's a *good* power.

[Rudra]

Sounds like LRM is the opposite of the ally only powers in some sets. Instead of being team focused, it is solo focused. (Edit: Or designed with the expectation the team will wait for the long range artillerists to open up with their LRMs as an opener.)

Edited November 3, 2022 by Rudra

[Zeraphia]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

Yeah, no one is going to wait around for that. I respecced out of it because I got tired of waiting. And this Blaster is supposed to be my signature Toon, so I chose Munitions Mastery for theme, but theme ain't worth gimping your own toon for.

Strongly agree.

 

I did my own experimentations with this power because on paper it would seem to do a lot of damage, also act as a good engager, and while I wouldn't quite call it entirely useless, I think if you're playing a lot of team-based content (ITF, MLTF, LRSF, iTrials, etc.) it massively loses its value. In solo content it works better because you can stand at a distance and fire off the rocket (therefore the animation time doesn't matter quite as horrifically even though it's still painfully long.)

 

Because it is a cornerstone power of the set, and the main appeal of why you're picking the set, I do believe it should be a decent power (perhaps lose a bit of its damage in trade for a fast-snipe version of the power?). Mace Mastery is kind of just better because Scorp Shield is just a one and done too good power while having a similar theme of "natural weapon user" feel. I had a similar situation where I had a technology themed rocket/munitions blaster with Beam/EM, but I just felt obligated to choose the other APP instead. 

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

Yeah, no one is going to wait around for that. I respecced out of it because I got tired of waiting. And this Blaster is supposed to be my signature Toon, so I chose Munitions Mastery for theme, but theme ain't worth gimping your own toon for.

Never said teams should wait, they've never waited for anything since launch. Just that either solo play or tactical team play seems to have been the point of the LRM. I'm not going to stand in the way of any changes that make it more overall useful.

[Menelruin]

Something I've never quite understood about the pool......

Powers tend to fall into the categories of ranged dps, melee dps, armor, support, control, or Summons.  I was under the impression that a big reason for the Epic pools was to allow a character to snag a couple powers that AREN'T included in their AT's sets, like a Defender getting armor, or a Tanker getting some Control.  Isn't LRM redundant for a Blaster?  Just one more ranged attack, for an AT that already is based on them?

[Zect]

Munitions Mastery is balanced. Survelliance is a highly valuable and effective power for tough single targets. Body armor gives less res, but costs no end, does not suppress while mezzed, and is available as the first choice in the set (most sets only offer resist toggles as the 2nd choice; the ones that do offer it as the 1st tend to have less desirable powers). The other powers are useful as set mules. I'd love to hear what set you think is better than the one that offers all the above, plus a mini-nuke. Let's not contribute to power creep, the biggest problem with this game.

 

P.S. I gave you a thumbsdown for failing to mention the one actual buff the set needs - the LRM needs to come out of an actual rocket launcher.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Zect

[arcane]

Personally I already love the pool, minus Sleep Grenade. The rest is underrated or misunderstood.