Capes, auras oh my

[UltraAlt]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:24 AM, cotesan said:

not try to please everyone who whines. 

 

I'm assuming you don't think your post is whining.

One's person's post for change is seen by some as whining about what that don't like.

 

With this in your post, it seems self-defeating to me.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

In time, that concept was gradually chipped away by the relentless focus on powerlevelling, on rushing to endgame, on skipping to this and that.

The idea of power-leveling is neither unique to CoH, nor was it not present until later on in CoH's run - The idea of rushing to see what's at the end is pretty much a part of life.

[cotesan]

3 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I'm assuming you don't think your post is whining.

One's person's post for change is seen by some as whining about what that don't like.

 

With this in your post, it seems self-defeating to me.

Hi troll. I’ll answer you once. There is a difference between adding constructive comments / suggestions and just being a whiner at having to actually play the game and not being spoon fed a trophy for showing up. Grow up. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by cotesan

[UltraAlt]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:49 PM, TheZag said:

It doesnt make sense for HeroMcHeroFace to not have his costume until he reaches full power.

 

'Hang on bad guys,  i just leveled up.  I'll be right back with the rest of my costume and then ill really lay down some justice.'

 

I'm not agreeing with the original post, but, yeah, sometimes my character conception is that they wear different costumes under different specific situations.

 

I have at least one character where the costume used by the character is related to what level they are. In fact, I have one character that hasn't even used some of their customs yet because they haven't reached that level yet. If they play content below their current level, they wear the costume already made for that related level range.

 

Costume development does happen in the comic book as well as other superhero related media.

 

Of course, I really love using costume changing emotes, have everything already built into the character.

I usually built the default costume while in the creator and then - usually before level 10 when all costuming is free - I build the other costumes/size/gender changes and the related costume change macros.

 

On 11/2/2022 at 1:08 PM, cotesan said:

Like every hero in every comic. It took time.

 

As far as not changing costumes, I don't think the Tick wears a costume.

 

On 11/2/2022 at 1:14 PM, cotesan said:

not true at all. Heroes started out wearing hand knit customes, onsies and even pots and pans

 

Your statement here is not correct.

I have no idea where you came up with this idea.

 

Even though the Red Tomato ... I mean the Red Tornado did wear a pot on her head, she still had a cape from the get go.

 

 

Also, Superman, Batman, Sandman, Dr Fate, Hourman, etc. all had capes from the start.

And so did many pulp heroes including the Shadow and the Spider.

 

 

Masks and capes were standard for mystery men before any characters were ever termed as being superheroes.

 

On 11/2/2022 at 2:47 PM, Cancrusher said:

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with making a suggestion.  No one should flame you for something that the Devs have invited us to do.

 

I'm against flaming and trolling, but people disagreeing with you and pointing out issues they have with your post isn't flaming or trolling.

 

On 11/2/2022 at 2:47 PM, Cancrusher said:

Homecoming is very much about allowing each player to (within certain limits) enjoy the game the way that each player wants to enjoy it.

 

And in light of this, if @cotesan doesn't want their characters to have a cape or other items until they reach a certain level, then they have the ability to do that with the current game mechanics.

I even listed above that I do this on at least one character.

Nothing is stopping them from doing this with all their characters if that is how they want to play the game.

 

On 11/2/2022 at 2:59 PM, lemming said:

For those who want an unpolished look, maybe we should have a terry cloth towel cape?

 

Can we have laundry pins attachments as an option for that costume part?

 

On 11/2/2022 at 5:35 PM, cotesan said:

Wow make a suggestions and the trolls arise. Anywhooo. 

 

Yeah, this is looking like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

I'm starting to think this is a troll thread as what you want is already in the game if that is how you want to play, and I'm not the only one thinking this ...

 

On 11/2/2022 at 5:44 PM, Zeraphia said:

Okay, assuming no ill intentions here and this isn't in fact a troll post/account yourself,

 

3 hours ago, cotesan said:

I decided to reply to your comment and will give you the only example needed. Statesman. 

 

Yeah, you are trolling.

 

 

 

[UltraAlt]

37 minutes ago, cotesan said:

Hi troll. I’ll answer you once. There is a difference between adding constructive comments / suggestions and just being a whiner at having to actually play the game and not being spoon fed a trophy for showing up. Grow up. 

 

You are trolling.

Not me. 

Not the others in this thread.

 

You don't have to worry about me anymore. I'm putting you on ignore.

[BrandX]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:08 AM, cotesan said:

exactly my point. Players should reach a certain level before having access to the more polished looks and pieces of more experienced characters. Like every hero in every comic. It took time. Thanks for your opinion. 

 

Not every hero in comics take their time to get to an awesome outfit.  In fact, a lot of times, we come into a brand new character and they're looking awesome.

[Cybersbe]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

 

Not every hero in comics take their time to get to an awesome outfit.  In fact, a lot of times, we come into a brand new character and they're looking awesome.

Adding on to this, I think it's worth mentioning some cases of costume development in comics don't happen because of anything in universe, but because of out of universe art evolution. As in, creators getting better at art, or trying to figure out what they want the hero to look like.

[Rudra]

Followup on my opposition to gating costume pieces/auras behind levels:

 

There are players that have a character concept where it makes no sense to have to wait to be able to unlock costume pieces/auras. For instance, after Cimerora was added, there were players that wanted to play time-displaced centurions. (There were players that wanted to play time-displaced ancient warriors even before Cimerora was added, but they were rather limited on their options to make the appropriate look.) They weren't just characters that started out as weapon users and then decided to emulate Roman centurions after having traveled back to Cimerora, they were Roman centurions that through some temporal displacement wound up in Paragon City and decided to take up the life of a super instead of staying newly conscripted centurion C of battalion F. How does it make sense to keep the Roman costume pieces gated until level 35 to try and unlock them for a character that was always a Roman centurion?

 

Or back to the scarf: a character could want a scarf because (s)he uses cold powers but is not cold immune and wearing a scarf helps him/her deal with his/her own powers, because scarves are identified automatically by onlookers as being associated with the cold and the cold-using character wants the association, because the character happens to think scarves are cool regardless of power set and incorporates it into his/her costume, because the scarf is a keepsake from a passed relative that character can't bear to be parted from even while adventuring, or any other number of reasons. And yet, scarves were gate-locked until level 20 when you could do a mission to get them with capes. Anyone can at any time go buy a scarf, so why should a super have to wait until level 20, and then have to do a mission, to be able to have a scarf? For that matter, you can hit costume shops to get a cape, you can order one online and sometimes even get it made to order, and in some places you can just go to a local store and buy one. (Edit: Though these are typically medieval style capes unless you are hitting up a costume shop.) And yet a super can't buy something John and Jane Doe can buy and wear whenever they want because the super character isn't level 20 and hasn't tackled some mission to prove (s)he is worthy of buying a commonly available (though not commonly used) item?

 

The point is that for any attempt to show a super must progress to a specific point after character creation to get specific auras or costume pieces, there is a reason waiting to be given in response as to why that is a completely arbitrary limitation. As has been said multiple times on this thread, a significant number of characters in comics are introduced already wearing a fully tricked out costume. That costume will undergo changes over the life of the character in the comics for various reasons, but they aren't showing up wearing some pauper hero suit until they unlock better costumes unless the character himself/herself is being presented as being of meager means, lacking in fashion sense, the character prefers a more modest or humble appearance of some type, or the writers want the character to act as a counter to existing characters in presentation until the new character is incorporated the way the others are.

 

If the desire is to have characters start out shabby and progress to fashion magazine cover presentable, that can be done already without placing limits on players' abilities to imagine and create characters. Asking for future costume pieces/auras to be gated behind levels or badges stifles players' ability to make new and interesting characters. Especially since you can see in the forums where requests are being made fairly constantly for existing NPC only costume pieces, new costume pieces, and derivative costume pieces for alternate nationalities/eras of existing costume pieces to be made available to players so they can properly portray their characters.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Rudra

[cotesan]

Thank you all for your opinions. 
like I said it is a great incentive for many many players and does not effect anyone’s playstyle as is. 
Submitted and hopefully will be added. 
closed for me. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by cotesan

[Luminara]

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, cotesan said:

Thank you all for your opinions. 
like I said it is a great incentive for many many players and does not effect anyone’s playstyle as is. 
Submitted and hopefully will be added. 
closed for me. 

It doesn't limit/affect anyone's playstyle. You are correct. It limits their character concept. That is the argument.

[biostem]

45 minutes ago, cotesan said:

like I said it is a great incentive for many many players and does not effect anyone’s playstyle as is.

Implementing the suggestion you started this thread with would, in fact, limit people's playstyle, so I'm not sure how you can say that it wouldn't...

[JasperStone]

5 hours ago, cotesan said:

Hi troll. I’ll answer you once. There is a difference between adding constructive comments / suggestions and just being a whiner at having to actually play the game and not being spoon fed a trophy for showing up. Grow up. 

Again ... you use this term, troll, in this thread. 

That, I assure you, is not what is happening here.

This thread is pretty tepid compared to others I have read or been a part of.

 

Play the game as YOU wish.

 

to actually play the game ....according to whom?

AFK farmers? yup...playing the game as they wish

Marketeers? yup... playing the game as they wish

Basebuilders? yup...playing the game as they wish 

 

Spoon fed a trophy?

You already have been if you took any of the powers from P2W

 

Seems like you want to come into the forums with this Amazing Cool idea and be adored for it.

...

Yea, that won't happen

There is a lot of wisdom here

 

 

 

 

[Cybersbe]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Implementing the suggestion you started this thread with would, in fact, limit people's playstyle, so I'm not sure how you can say that it wouldn't...

Costumes are cosmetic and don't affect powers. I'm pretty sure that's what OP means when he says that playstyle isn't affected.

 

That said, there are indeed players who would be harmed by this. Namely, the creative types who have ideas that they want to implement and would have their creativity restricted. Not to mention players who have already gotten used to the system Homecoming currently uses. Implementing OP's idea would effectively amount to arbitrarily taking away features and saying "you can have it back when you've earned it." (There's a difference between having to earn something you never had, versus having something taken away from you and having to work to get it back.)

 

OP, I doubt you'll ever read this, but whether or not you agree with the Homecoming team's decision to make all customization options available right away, it's the decision they made. And implementing your idea to bring back the restrictions would indeed hurt players who are used to the new system.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Cybersbe

[arthurh35353]

I would like to see a specific cape and specific aura (new ones) that you can unlock with the missions so they aren't just ignored or only done for nostalgia's purposes.

[lemming]

12 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

On 11/2/2022 at 11:59 AM, lemming said:

For those who want an unpolished look, maybe we should have a terry cloth towel cape?

 

Can we have laundry pins attachments as an option for that costume part?

I certainly hope so

[Naomi]

I've been noticing a lot of suggestions lately being derailed instead of being engaging. There's no need to tear down an idea you don't like in most instances (in a manner that involves name calling or forum vitriol), since we tend to read most suggestions pretty defensively anyway. The only thing it does is make it a lot more difficult for us to find valid points in the noise.

 

I can say at least that the OP isn't alone in their line of thinking. I'm pretty sure I even read a similar post about bringing back Prestige costs for base items.

 

The basic premise of any game is to be rewarded and I'm never too surprised to see these types of suggestions. I wouldn't read too much into or go in-depth here about that topic because it's pretty massive, but suffice to say, there is validity at the core principal he's suggesting here.

 

Our default stance on cosmetics though (costume parts and emotes) is that we don't like to gate-keep those in most instances because of what most of you basically said, which is that it's annoying to have to wait to complete a concept, especially when they're not account unlocks.

 

I don't really care how few or how many heroes start their journey off without a cape at first reveal as an argument for or against, because that was never the reason you had to wait until level 20 anyway. It was simply about luring most players toward a magical goal post. The same argument could have been made for travel powers.. or really, any powers.

 

Why do we even have to level up to begin with?

 

That aside, I do think there is wiggle room for cosmetic rewards. Personally, I'd rather most of them be limited to seasonal rewards like the witch and Santa hat type of stuff, possibly unlockable with the candy canes, Halloween or other salvage obtainable from seasonal events (making them available to be purchased year round). I don't like the idea of them to be hard to keep track of, locked behind difficult content, or divided between a loyalty reward structure, pay pack, recipe or other methods for the same stated reasons.

 

There was also an idea on Discord I remember seeing about the possibility of basic free parts and better looking ones that are rewards, sort of like the valentines patterns. I'm not really sure how I feel about those yet other than they would consume a lot of extra time for probably less benefit realistically, and so I'm not a huge fan of that model either.

 

The last time we did something like that was when I added the extra donut flavor emotes behind the Faultline badge and everyone complained, so my guess is it would still be an unpopular reward type, which is fine.

 

There's also the possibility of cycling parts through rewards before making them free from the start, which probably still wouldn't be very popular but it really depends on the part and context (again, I could see old seasonal parts being free the next year with new ones to unlock with salvage).

 

Some people want to be rewarded and others just see it as the millionth time they have to do some annoying, unnecessary thing - which in fairness, like costume slot unlocks, can get really old after a while with little sense of reward.

 

Rewards are also never static and always subject to change based on feedback, so having that flexibility to at least try it in the future is important to us.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

But Naomi, after a hard day of pressing buttons to defeat evil doers in the game I like to relax by pressing buttons to defeat evil ideas in the forums.

[El D]

@Naomi makes a lot of very good points.

 

IMO, if 'this is an earnable costume creator item' is implemented for certain special cosmetics again the seasonal route is the way to go - with the caveat that it works like the bonus costume slot/candy cane salvage does. While the event itself only runs for a select time, access to the vendor to actually buy the item should be available year-round. That way there's still a limited time to earn the salvage necessary for the item through the event missions but outside of the event if someone makes a new character the cosmetic item is still possible to be obtained via stockpiled salvage or AH purchases.

 

It seems to strike a solid balance as far as 'earnability' goes. Having something be too easy makes some players wonder why there was a requirement in the first place (like emotes behind exploration badges, much as I personally am totally supportive of that) and having it too restrictive means hardly anyone will get to use it (like locking costume creator items behind high-level content or excessive defeat badges). With the seasonal set-up, there's still a base measure of expected gameplay and engagement on a level that doesn't either feel arbitrary or overly restrictive and other rewards and progress are earned at the same time (badges, XP/Inf, possible PAPs) which incentivizes players to run those events even more when they're around.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't mind more themed events. They don't necessarily need to be around holidays - especially given that the October to February window is already a bit lopsided - but anything using the same 'salvage -> reward vendor' seasonal framework would work. Having them set up around various groups, like a Longbow event that allows for unlocking those bandoliers or thigh pouches or a Knives of Artemis event for their boots/tactical gear could be fun. Some equally-accessible contact offers appropriate missions working with/against that particular group for 'Faction Medals' which can get turned in for whichever gear is in the event shop, perhaps with on-going event items offered at a discount but all existing items can still be bought.

Edited November 5, 2022 by El D

[JasperStone]

This came up.

An option that is a choice.

What is being suggested will be imposed on everyone, no choice.

[Excraft]

On 11/4/2022 at 10:11 AM, cotesan said:

I decided to reply to your comment and will give you the only example needed. Statesman. 

 

Nope.  Statesman had a cape and could've worn it, he just chose not to out of respect for Hero One.  Nice try though. 

[Alchemystic]

Going to interject here because I feel a forum lock impending, but if you have to pre-emptively declare that people who dislike your idea are "flamers" or "whiners", and then attack anybody who offers criticism by labelling them trolls and blocking them, you aren't likely to endear people towards this or any other suggestion you put forward.

[cotesan]

41 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Going to interject here because I feel a forum lock impending, but if you have to pre-emptively declare that people who dislike your idea are "flamers" or "whiners", and then attack anybody who offers criticism by labelling them trolls and blocking them, you aren't likely to endear people towards this or any other suggestion you put forward.

 I was being trolled and me having to hear how my suggestion is not valid and should be shut down and on and on is ridiculous. It’s my vote. You don’t like it respectfully disagree. I am here as a player, a donator and if you don’t like it move on and get a life. 

[cotesan]

5 minutes ago, Krimson said:

You won't likely even see any of my toons before level 50, so there is no reason for you to worry about what any of them look like. 

 

Good luck trying to push this idea. There's no motivation for this kind of post except elitism. It certainly isn't realism. I could go out and buy or make a cape for myself right now, and I'm not even a superhero. 

 

I used to do the mission all the time on Live, and did it a couple of times here. Fun stuff, but no one is going to take capes away from lowbies to make other players feel good. 

Did you read my post?

[cotesan]

1 minute ago, Krimson said:

Good luck. You're going to need it.

I’ll take that as a no.