This is just a "fun" server now

[Doc_Scorpion]

7 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Yeah, I think a lot of people have lost sight of how an "average" build performs, and that leveling up is a lot more challenging than they remember. I pulled out my lvl 36-ish common IOd Dark/Dark Stalker the other day and it was a shitshow. Constantly running out of end, constantly missing, getting my ass chewed up by minions and LTs because I have trivial defense and only 30% resistances and still getting knocked around with a Karma IO. it wasn't fun.

Now I'm familiar with a stalker, but across a range of archetypes, my "average" builds (SO's, maybe a common IO or two) perform just fine.

[Wavicle]

I guess I would say I don't really think how you're portraying it is true, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to find the old posts about it, so we needn't argue about it. It doesn't really matter now.

The real point is that in the long run Enhancement Diminishing Returns SAVED the game, because they DID make room for things like IOs and Incarnate powers. So whether it was for the right or wrong reason, it was the right thing to do.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Wavicle

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Ukase said:

I do not get that impression here. I get the impression that I have to walk on eggshells here. Thankfully, I love the crunching sound under my feet. 
 

me too.  I walk on eggshells.  wait.  have you read my posts?  

 

what do you consider "walking on eggshells?" Not being able to make Superman clones and/or have Xrated chat in game or on the forums?  Because I suppose some would consider that "eggshells..."

[High_Beam]

9 hours ago, Ukase said:

I get the impression that I have to walk on eggshells here.

This was the first title of the Katrina and the Waves song.

 

 

[tidge]

"If you think I am talking about you, just remember I am talking about myself."

[SteelRat70]

I'll admit I'm kinda on the fence about this.  I can whole heartedly relate to where the OP is coming from, but at the same time, I have incurable altitis so the pure version of the game would limit the time I'd realistically be able to spend levelling and building each one a whole lot more than the version we have today does.

 

On the flip side I don't know how or why this is the case but content at every level just feels flat easier.  Ive always thought that good old Frosty is a rather good yardstick.  It happens at low level (so generally pre IO for most) and was for some PUGs quite a challenge.  Yes, there was an RNG component to how good a pug or what it's composition was that could decide on how easy a time you were going to have, but these days EVERY PUG I've joined that's done it has smashed it without so much of a bead of sweat regardless of what ATs made the team up.

In addition, I liked that capes were level locked to 20 and auras at 30 and you had to do a mission to achieve them both.  And that certain other costume pieces or unique items were attached as a special reward to a specific piece of content.  It gave value to those things, made you feel more invested in your character and that it was on a journey and you were in the process of telling its story.

Perhaps that's where the shift is?  Less focus on the development of a small number of characters, and greater on giving players the opportunity to play lots of different ones with all the increased power set combos that there now are?

The interesting question is, is this not just a sign of the times?  Greater and more limitless choice on the one side, but less focus and dare I say "soul" on the other; like the difference between a finite CD or vinyl collection vs Spotify.

[DoctorHugh]

2 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

Ive always thought that good old Frosty is a rather good yardstick.

 

Over the years I've seen this sort of comparison a number of times. "Back in the day, X was a real challenge. Not any more."

 

From what I can tell, a number of seemingly unrelated factors tie into old hard content becoming routine/easily handled current content:

- Over time, the addition of more content/missions/XP payouts means you're more likely to be level X+3, for instance, rather than level X when you tackle a task.

- People learn exactly how to do it, so they no longer tackle rooms full of baddies that someone knows can be bypassed - trouble points are minimized.

- People learn the minimum they can tackle the task with, so they do it with smaller groups (even solo) - which actually cuts down on the chaos/adds/weak links.

- Adjustments are made over time to the game if teams are consistently having trouble with X, so maybe you don't get a boss in every spawn.

- Better gear availability makes a big difference. (I'd assume most players are doing Frosty with SO's in their Enh. slots - pretty big difference right there.)

- "Power gaps" in ability sets are slowly filled in, so characters at that level have fewer glaring omissions in their power choices.

 

For what it's worth, from my (questionable) memories of doing Frosty back in the day, we often tackled the task when the mobs were yellow/orange/red/maybe even purple. We often did it with near-full teams, which led to lots of chaos, adds, aggro on people you didn't even have LoS on. People didn't know how to control their ice sliding, so would end up way out of position and pulling extra aggro. I recall being short on effective 'control' powers for shutting down difficult mobs long enough. I recall more Lead Scorchers summoning Imps.

 

In the half-dozen Frosty runs I've done on HC (small sample of course), I've yet to see a team bigger than 4. I've yet to see a mob higher than yellow, except I think one orange. Players know exactly what rooms to do and which to walk past. Control isn't a problem.

 

It appears that a handful of different small improvements can lead to a major change in the difficulty.

Edited January 20, 2023 by DoctorHugh

[Greycat]

9 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I'm not entirely sure this is true, at least not how you're portraying it. ED was a hard nerf, plain and simple, because Jack felt that us being that powerful wasn't fun enough. It was purely punitive and intentional, not because he wanted to add other stuff but because he was angry we weren't playing his game his way. At the time there was no intention of ever giving back what was taken away. He wanted things to be hard. He wanted us to struggle. He didn't want us soloing content (he changed how XP was awarded to dissuade us from soloing and street sweeping). He also assured us we were still going to be able to perma Hasten, and of course lied, because we couldn't. ED was issue 6. Inventions didn't come till issue 9, and IIRC Jack was pretty much gone by that point and none of it was his doing. 

 

The universities - or at least the empty ground showing something being built where they were  - were added pretty much on the heels of this. They were working on a different sort of system (I want to say it was called a legends system, I have the quote... somewhere,) but it got scrapped and we got the Inventions system, which was derived from some if its ideas, later than we were originally going to get "something." We were initially supposed to get it hot on the heels of ED.

 

And no, I don't think we *would* have gotten it without ED. ED, and some of the other limits, were needed. The whole "Oh, everyone stand at the entrance while the tank (or scrapper, for that matter) herds the floor and a single blaster nukes them" that people seem to pine for? That was not fun. It was amusing, briefly, sure. But it was broken and would have led to the game dying *much* earlier.

 

From one of the people constantly being told to just stand back and watch? While sure, it gave time to BS with people, no, that was not fun. Rail against ED all you want, but it was absolutely needed in hindsight.

[SteelRat70]

1 hour ago, DoctorHugh said:

 

Over the years I've seen this sort of comparison a number of times. "Back in the day, X was a real challenge. Not any more."

 

From what I can tell, a number of seemingly unrelated factors tie into old hard content becoming routine/easily handled current content:

- Over time, the addition of more content/missions/XP payouts means you're more likely to be level X+3, for instance, rather than level X when you tackle a task.

- People learn exactly how to do it, so they no longer tackle rooms full of baddies that someone knows can be bypassed - trouble points are minimized.

- People learn the minimum they can tackle the task with, so they do it with smaller groups (even solo) - which actually cuts down on the chaos/adds/weak links.

- Adjustments are made over time to the game if teams are consistently having trouble with X, so maybe you don't get a boss in every spawn.

- Better gear availability makes a big difference. (I'd assume most players are doing Frosty with SO's in their Enh. slots - pretty big difference right there.)

- "Power gaps" in ability sets are slowly filled in, so characters at that level have fewer glaring omissions in their power choices.

 

For what it's worth, from my (questionable) memories of doing Frosty back in the day, we often tackled the task when the mobs were yellow/orange/red/maybe even purple. We often did it with near-full teams, which led to lots of chaos, adds, aggro on people you didn't even have LoS on. People didn't know how to control their ice sliding, so would end up way out of position and pulling extra aggro. I recall being short on effective 'control' powers for shutting down difficult mobs long enough. I recall more Lead Scorchers summoning Imps.

 

In the half-dozen Frosty runs I've done on HC (small sample of course), I've yet to see a team bigger than 4. I've yet to see a mob higher than yellow, except I think one orange. Players know exactly what rooms to do and which to walk past. Control isn't a problem.

 

It appears that a handful of different small improvements can lead to a major change in the difficulty.

 

You won't find me arguing with any of that - all perfectly reasonable.

From my experience and the handful of times I've done it, it's been within the "expected" level range, so levels 8-11 ish.  No exemps.  Full teams of 8, no skipping.  One character I did it on didn't have any enhancements at all, I think the mobs were conning Red / Purple, yet not only was the whole mission a cake walk, I think Frosty himself was dead before I'd even manage to target him and get a shot off.  It's possible (and I'll concede likely) that at least one of that teams members was an exemped 50, but the number of times that I've done it in the last few weeks (and it's such a classic mission I'll always try and run it on a lowbie character) that this experience has been repeated, has taken the shine off the reasons for precisely why it was such a classic mission.

I'll admit all of this is the very definition of anecdotal evidence, but there is (at least to me) a very definite shift in a particular direction which whilst I recognise the reasoning for, I don't believe is necessarily in the games best interest.  I suppose all the time numbers are consistent and good quantities of people are playing it, that becomes more of a "Me Problem"!

In any case, I'm in the process of standing up a private server from those lovely chaps at OuroDev, so it might be interesting to run some comparisons.

[C U R S E]

As a veteran player of COH past, I feel that the devs gave Homecoming the buff it needed. They all do this with volunteer donations, and have done a fantastic job. They gave to us what COH needed and more. There will be those unhappy about the changes, and the good thing is you can go to play other servers. My 2 cents is keep up the great work.

[Bionic_Flea]

How DARE you have any fun!

 

You must grind.

 

This is the way.

[lemming]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

me too.  I walk on eggshells.  wait.  have you read my posts?  

 

what do you consider "walking on eggshells?" Not being able to make Superman clones and/or have Xrated chat in game or on the forums?  Because I suppose some would consider that "eggshells..."

I prefer stomping on eggshells.  (though be sure to wear shoes with rugged enough soles)

[Ukase]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

me too.  I walk on eggshells.  wait.  have you read my posts?  

 

what do you consider "walking on eggshells?" Not being able to make Superman clones and/or have Xrated chat in game or on the forums?  Because I suppose some would consider that "eggshells..."

This is easier to say than to type, but I'll do my best and I can clarify tonight during the crawl. 

A few months back, in what I would call a fairly heated debate about some of the proposed changes in page 5, I basically said
"Y'all are like a gal who, just as soon as she finds a man she loves, she wants to take him in for alterations". 

No lie - that's not an original thought of mine - it was a line I had to memorize in high school for the play, "Guys and Dolls". So, the setting is from a time when sayings like these are common place - along with words like humdinger and doozy - which are character names of mine, I might add. 
Apparently, some of our more immature crowd took offense to that comment. And when I say immature, it's kind of a dig, but I really mean the younger folks. 

This is just an example of one DM I got. I'll omit the name, because that's probably against the rules. 

****************************

This is a quote, by the way: 

 

*****************************

 

And then I got the privilege of hearing from the mighty exalted Veracor! 
And in that, he shared that he "always had a low opinion of me" and I'm not welcome in any content led by him. So, screw him and others like him. 

I will say things the way I wish. And I will apologize if I feel I'm in the wrong, but in that specific context, I wasn't wrong. And if folks got upset, that's not my problem. That wasn't my intention, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. 
And it's worth pointing out that no GM said anything to me at all about it, because anyone with common sense knows that while the comparison is dated, the meaning of the full comment was and is accurate and absolutely on point from where I sit. And I think that's what really pissed them off. That I dared to show them that they really don't like this game as much as they claim to. If they did, they wouldn't be trying to change it so damned much. 

And now - here we are...player log in activity is lower than it's ever been. So much so, that a lot of folks want the servers to merge. 
Torchbearer, Indomitable, Reunion - they might as well be a version of Rebirth or Thunderspy, given the population numbers. 

I even see some of the roleplayers of Everlasting switching to Excelsior because they're having a rough time finding a team over there, too. 

That's not to say everything is gloom and doom. The HC devs are doing quality work, even if I don't always like the direction they take things. Over time, the folks that stopped playing here, odds are - they'll return for a spell, probably after each patch. But then they'll go away again. And, to their credit - I raised a big fuss over the vet rewards not working in AE, and they changed that. So, I can never say they don't listen. Clearly, they do. 

We cannot go back in time. And reverting things back to the way they were, even if the HC devs were convinced it was the right thing to do would probably do more harm than good. I would just encourage them to measure twice and cut once. There's no need to install all the changes immediately or as soon as possible. Leave things on brainstorm for a few months. Give your busy casual players time to not only try what's there, but to actually think about how the change will impact them, and others they know. Limit the changes each patch. 
If HC ever gets any kind of licensing agreement from NCSuck, (I am not holding my breath), then they can open the floodgates of change. Until then, be very cautious. Because while the changes were implemented successfully, you can look at the increase in Thunderspy and Rebirth, and even Purrgatory and see that is where many of the players from here went. 

I have said to the Cosmic Council SG leader once - keep treating this SG like it's yours and soon you'll be the only one in it. So, I'll adapt that to this context: Keep treating this game like it's yours, and soon you'll be the only ones playing it. 



 

 

 

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

This is easier to say than to type, but I'll do my best and I can clarify tonight during the crawl. 

A few months back, in what I would call a fairly heated debate about some of the proposed changes in page 5, I basically said
"Y'all are like a gal who, just as soon as she finds a man she loves, she wants to take him in for alterations". 

No lie - that's not an original thought of mine - it was a line I had to memorize in high school for the play, "Guys and Dolls". So, the setting is from a time when sayings like these are common place - along with words like humdinger and doozy - which are character names of mine, I might add. 
Apparently, some of our more immature crowd took offense to that comment. And when I say immature, it's kind of a dig, but I really mean the younger folks. 

This is just an example of one DM I got. I'll omit the name, because that's probably against the rules. 

****************************

This is a quote, by the way: 

 

*****************************

 

And then I got the privilege of hearing from the mighty exalted Veracor! 
And in that, he shared that he "always had a low opinion of me" and I'm not welcome in any content led by him. So, screw him and others like him. 

I will say things the way I wish. And I will apologize if I feel I'm in the wrong, but in that specific context, I wasn't wrong. And if folks got upset, that's not my problem. That wasn't my intention, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. 
And it's worth pointing out that no GM said anything to me at all about it, because anyone with common sense knows that while the comparison is dated, the meaning of the full comment was and is accurate and absolutely on point from where I sit. And I think that's what really pissed them off. That I dared to show them that they really don't like this game as much as they claim to. If they did, they wouldn't be trying to change it so damned much. 

And now - here we are...player log in activity is lower than it's ever been. So much so, that a lot of folks want the servers to merge. 
Torchbearer, Indomitable, Reunion - they might as well be a version of Rebirth or Thunderspy, given the population numbers. 

I even see some of the roleplayers of Everlasting switching to Excelsior because they're having a rough time finding a team over there, too. 

That's not to say everything is gloom and doom. The HC devs are doing quality work, even if I don't always like the direction they take things. Over time, the folks that stopped playing here, odds are - they'll return for a spell, probably after each patch. But then they'll go away again. And, to their credit - I raised a big fuss over the vet rewards not working in AE, and they changed that. So, I can never say they don't listen. Clearly, they do. 

We cannot go back in time. And reverting things back to the way they were, even if the HC devs were convinced it was the right thing to do would probably do more harm than good. I would just encourage them to measure twice and cut once. There's no need to install all the changes immediately or as soon as possible. Leave things on brainstorm for a few months. Give your busy casual players time to not only try what's there, but to actually think about how the change will impact them, and others they know. Limit the changes each patch. 
If HC ever gets any kind of licensing agreement from NCSuck, (I am not holding my breath), then they can open the floodgates of change. Until then, be very cautious. Because while the changes were implemented successfully, you can look at the increase in Thunderspy and Rebirth, and even Purrgatory and see that is where many of the players from here went. 

I have said to the Cosmic Council SG leader once - keep treating this SG like it's yours and soon you'll be the only one in it. So, I'll adapt that to this context: Keep treating this game like it's yours, and soon you'll be the only ones playing it. 



 

 

 

I actually didnt see it was you I responded to until after I posted Ukase.  Early morning not enough caffeine heh.  
 

I still do not think I walk on eggshells.  Maybe because I truly dont give a shot about what most folks say.  
 

I thought I might be walking on eggshells once. Then I noticed I was in a china shop.  And I may have knocked some things over…..

[Ruin Mage]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

This is just an example of one DM I got. I'll omit the name, because that's probably against the rules. 

I'll just come out and say hi, that DM was me. Was it crass and over the top? Sure. Uncalled for? Eh, debatable given what was going on. We were all heated, and you did triple down on some very weird word choices. Also the dig at Veracor after all this time is just strange. Very very strange.

Though I'll consider you sending me a PM out of the blue to be quite odd as well. You're a weird old man, Ukase.
 

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Leave things on brainstorm for a few months.

This would be more viable if more people weren't Forum Armchair Reactionaries*, I feel. However, leaving it on a public test server for months isn't usually how it goes. Mind you, this opens the floor for Game Standards today and so forth but whatever. By the time it reaches Brainstorm it has already had several patches on Closed Beta and is now in its stages of nearing Release Candidate. Page 5 aside (which had a time limit due to circumstances surrounding Faultline) - generally the Open Beta side is meant to be quick, any-bugs-we-didn't-catch, and otherwise just patching tiny holes. Now, HC is the uncommon path (Maybe?) where even if it reaches Open Beta/Test Server? It can be re-iterated or walked back on. Example being the AE Changes or certain changes to Dark Melee & I believe Martial Arts some odd pages back.

A few months isn't really viable when you, ideally, want to ship something out wholely. You don't strip a feature or three from a Issue or Page and then release it some weeks later. There's very few games to my knowledge that stagger features for one reason or another. Hell, I don't know if there is any that have done it in the current era of games for the sole fact of 'needs more time cooking'.

* = Forum Armchair Reactionaries are the type of people who simply look at the patch notes and go "This is Shit." rather than "Okay, so comparing Live to Test this what I've got." or "This feels weird and here's why." - Which has been common place for Page 4 and Page 5. Feedback threads became mind-boggling muddied by people mis-reading, not understanding, or refusing to even entertain logging on to Brainstorm to get their hands on the changes.
 

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Limit the changes each patch. 

Ideal on paper, not so much on execution - though I believe there's been a thing said somewhere once or twice that Issues/Pages have gotten bloated and its acknowledged. Who knows what Page 6 onto the next Issue will look like - but from my understanding, they're aware that Page 4 was HEAVY. Page 5 less so. Sure, not every Page needs to have 20 Milestone/Keystone changes, but it shows the amount of work they're doing the dedication to the craft they have.
 

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Until then, be very cautious.

Too much caution and they'll be dancing with "Okay but two people dislike this change and that means we should work it till it pleases everyone."

You can't please everyone and City of Heroes will never have Double Digit Thousands in population or higher. It was nowhere near as popular as other games with Rogue/Private servers (WoW, Lineage 2 - though it is unfair to mention these given that Lineage 2 has been always a huge thing in Eastern Markets and WoW has been a dominant force since its creation)
 

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

If they did, they wouldn't be trying to change it so damned much. 

The game as it was by i24 was not the Best Game in The World. The game pre-Paragon Studios was rife with horrible ideas (Jack Emmert famously wanted 3 minions to be able to wreck 1 player), and even post-Cryptic there were changes that backfired in various ways. i13 famously put PVP to the grinder and there's been other changes like that. Travel Suppression, which has gone under the radar I feel, was just slapped onto PVE and stayed because...reasons. Games change and no server has said "We're going to launch the server and make no changes."

Rebirth is revamping the entirety of the Travel Power sets recently, they're re-vamping Synapse, they've made sweeping changes to Kheldians, and they even have the Guardian Archetype. Thunderspy made sweeping changes to various powers and ATs that probably veered into territory of "Spin that Wheel, Bob!". Cake goes "Hmn, what sort of powerset can I design this day while high as a kite?" (No hate to Nomadaeon/Neptune, I'm trying to be funny), and Purrgatory created the Nephilim. Not sure what else they've done, but yeah. Other servers have done minor or major tweaks.

Change keeps things from feeling stagnant in an MMO that died right as it was shifting into Popular Trends from the 2010s and now into the 2020s. I do not doubt that not every change will be good. I do not doubt that every change will be received well - see Page 4 and Page 5 for evidence - but that should not and cannot stop a change from happening. If it promotes growth in powerset health? Great. If it allows the developers to add more content, to do more across the board? Absolutely perfect. Will everyone agree with those changes? Fuck no. I don't agree with changes that hard axe people's favorite power sets, but they might still happen!

Change happens and keeping to a certain way is just Rose Tinted Goggles winning in my opinion, but people also hate change on the other hand so... Yeah.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

some of our more immature crowd took offense to that comment. And when I say immature, it's kind of a dig, but I really mean the younger folks. 

Ok, Boomer.

It's not walking on eggshells if you're afraid of getting called out for weird or backwards references/jokes/statements - whatever you want to call what got you into 'hot water' as it were. You could just, you know, be normal and not use outdated weird analogies/comparisons/whatever in reference to people and their desire for change. Or how people want to change a game that they can...and have changed. It's your own consequences for saying things that make people look at you a certain way because of those things you said.

It's not that hard to grasp that words are powerful. Words have power and meaning. You happened to say things that weren't taken well. Even with clarification and tripling down, you didn't help yourself at all. You did this all by yourself to create the "Walking on Eggshells" feeling - that's not anyone's fault but your own. I hope you can one day realize that, Ukase. Especially when you try to shift the blame onto others instead of reflecting like a genuine honest person would.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Shadeknight

[Crystal Dragon]

If you don't like the changes, address it to the dev's.

If you don't like the community, leave it.

If you don't like the game, quit.

Personal responsibility is on you, no one else.

[Ruin Mage]

2 minutes ago, CR Americas Angel said:

the market is cheap,

Don't say that out loud, now it'll get worse!

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

You must grind.

 

This is the way.

 

Grind? or STRUT?

 

 

[Captain Fabulous]

12 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Now I'm familiar with a stalker, but across a range of archetypes, my "average" builds (SO's, maybe a common IO or two) perform just fine.

I didn't mean it imply it was across the board, because I have a Staff/Nin Stalker in the same level range also with common IOs who also performs (mostly) just fine (endurance problems is the gift that keeps on giving). A lot depends upon who you're with and what you're fighting. Dark sets are ancient and probably need some love. Basically all I was trying to say is that it's still quite easy to have a sub-optimal leveling character who underperforms.

 

12 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I guess I would say I don't really think how you're portraying it is true, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to find the old posts about it, so we needn't argue about it. It doesn't really matter now.

The real point is that in the long run Enhancement Diminishing Returns SAVED the game, because they DID make room for things like IOs and Incarnate powers. So whether it was for the right or wrong reason, it was the right thing to do.

 

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

The universities - or at least the empty ground showing something being built where they were  - were added pretty much on the heels of this. They were working on a different sort of system (I want to say it was called a legends system, I have the quote... somewhere,) but it got scrapped and we got the Inventions system, which was derived from some if its ideas, later than we were originally going to get "something." We were initially supposed to get it hot on the heels of ED.

 

And no, I don't think we *would* have gotten it without ED. ED, and some of the other limits, were needed. The whole "Oh, everyone stand at the entrance while the tank (or scrapper, for that matter) herds the floor and a single blaster nukes them" that people seem to pine for? That was not fun. It was amusing, briefly, sure. But it was broken and would have led to the game dying *much* earlier.

 

From one of the people constantly being told to just stand back and watch? While sure, it gave time to BS with people, no, that was not fun. Rail against ED all you want, but it was absolutely needed in hindsight.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I think ED broke the game and inventions as implemented did nothing but create a massive divide between the haves (those willing to spend time manipulating the market to amass obscene amounts of in-game wealth) and those that simply wanted to play and had no interest in being an in-game day trader. Those willing to grind and play the market got stronger while the rest didn't, and it was this schism that caused so many of the balancing issues that came after. We absolutely could have had some form of invention system without ED or an in-game economy. It just would have focused on other things instead of giving back what ED took away. It took so long to implement due to the behind-the-scenes in-fighting between Jack, who didn't want anything that defeated the entire purpose of ED (to make us and keep us weak), and just about everyone else who realized the players really didn't like not feeling super in a superhero game (along with finding a way to keep us grinding and paying).

What you describe was not a power problem, but a targeting/aggro cap problem. 

 

5 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

IIn addition, I liked that capes were level locked to 20 and auras at 30 and you had to do a mission to achieve them both.  And that certain other costume pieces or unique items were attached as a special reward to a specific piece of content.  It gave value to those things, made you feel more invested in your character and that it was on a journey and you were in the process of telling its story.

You can still play this way. There is nothing stopping you from doing those missions and holding off using those features until you do. Same with taking travel powers prior to 14, etc.
 

 

4 hours ago, DoctorHugh said:

In the half-dozen Frosty runs I've done on HC (small sample of course), I've yet to see a team bigger than 4. I've yet to see a mob higher than yellow, except I think one orange. Players know exactly what rooms to do and which to walk past. Control isn't a problem.

 

It appears that a handful of different small improvements can lead to a major change in the difficulty.

That's definitely part of it. But also lower-level characters are more powerful than they've ever been previously due to scaling to-hit, P2W attacks/buffs and DFB/DiB buffs. Also, I don't think Frosty spawns as an EB any more (tho I could be wrong, it's been awhile). And all it takes is one kitted-out 50 on the team to steamroll the entire arc, something that didn't exist back in the day.

[Captain Fabulous]

44 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Travel Suppression, which has gone under the radar I feel, was just slapped onto PVE and stayed because...reasons. Games change and no server has said "We're going to launch the server and make no changes."
 

Lord if we could finally be free of Travel Suppression and penalties on powers (the various T9s and Rage) it would make me a very very happy man.

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

And I think that's what really pissed them off. That I dared to show them that they really don't like this game as much as they claim to. If they did, they wouldn't be trying to change it so damned much.

(shrug)  I think that's completely wrong.  I play a lot of games and every single one has features I don't like.

 

You boldly showed them they don't like the game as much as they claim to?  And yet, here they are (myself included), playing many hours per week and being active on the forums.  If we didn't like the game, we wouldn't be here arguing about it WHILE ALSO playing it.

[Neiska]

Starting to think that perhaps I was a bit premature in my earlier post when I had highlighted that people started to disagree, but then agreed to disagree. Because I am starting to wonder which is worse, the forums or the discord. From where I sit, when a (relativity) small community such as this attacks itself, everyone loses. And besides that, there is never any "winner" in an online argument. It doesn't matter what the argument is, be it change XYZ, or AEs, or Farming, or grouping, it's always the same - two or more parties involved exchange banters until one simply stops replying.

 

You can please some people all the time, or all people sometimes, but you cannot please all people all the time. I just wish that most changes didn't seem so uni-directional, or aimed to encourage some gameplay, and discourage others. I hasten to add that I said "most" which is a far cry from "all."

[Ruin Mage]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

I just wish that most changes didn't seem so uni-directional, or aimed to encourage some gameplay, and discourage others. I hasten to add that I said "most" which is a far cry from "all."

A fair wish. I don't think, and this is where we disagree I believe, that the Devs want to entirely shut out one way of playing the game. Yes, some of the changes attack one particular way (Farming), but others happen to affect farming (Fire Sword changes) - but I don't think the end goal is to eliminate or gut one way. I can see that Farming is not as strong as it once was, but it is still a dominant force within Homecoming. I'm using that since it seems to be the Go To for "Changes Bad", but perhaps there is other changes that fit discouraging other forms of gameplay.
 

 

5 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Because I am starting to wonder which is worse, the forums or the discord.

Forums.

 

[Neiska]

Just now, Shadeknight said:

and this is where we disagree I believe, that the Devs want to entirely shut out one way of playing the game.

 

Yes, I respectfully disagree. But I never said they want to entirely shut down one style of game. Only encourage some and discourage others. If they wanted to remove the AE, they could fairly quickly. But I suspect the big brains would then just figure out what ever mission was the next most expedient thing to do, and that would be the new "farm." And musing further, I suspect it would turn into a game of whack-a-mole, which given the limited resources of the volunteer staff, I doubt they would sink overly much time into.

 

Again, I never claimed or said they wanted to remove it entirely, but they certainly have made strides to put a carrot on a stick for other activities, and as far as I can tell never paid much mind to the voices or feedback from the farmers. But let's not re-open old forum topics. I would sooner not necro old arguments that are better left buried. I only brought the original point up for context, as far as why some might not like the current state of things. Which I hope that no matter what your stance is on the issue, you would agree is a normal state of expectations on any given change. - Some will like it, others won't, even others still will be indifferent.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

This is just an example of one DM I got. I'll omit the name, because that's probably against the rules. 

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This is a quote, by the way: 

 

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I got this far and pretty much stopped. I seriously hope you reported this message and encourage you to do so if not. 

 

I disagree, vehemently in cases, with other posters here, but the above is not disagreement, it is personal attack and harassment.