Clean up character recomendations

[Captain Fabulous]

13 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

Having said that, largely as a result of the comments in this thread, I'm specifically avoiding those "lvl 54 PI team all levels welcome" teams and seeking out the "level 30 team - no 50s please" ones that occasionally pop up.

I'm leaning in this direction myself. While the XP on the 54 team is great the play experience on a relative lowbie is sub-par. And it's very easy to run into the issue described in this thread.

[cranebump]

2 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

That's fine.. but that doesn't mean they're right.

I agree.

 

2 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

Agreed on the preference.  Sub light run speed, chilled out chatty-lolz teams are vastly more preferable than the "Must Do Everything As Quickly As Possible" zerg fests, but those seem to be fairly few and far between, sadly.

Having said that, largely as a result of the comments in this thread, I'm specifically avoiding those "lvl 54 PI team all levels welcome" teams and seeking out the "level 30 team - no 50s please" ones that occasionally pop up.

That's probably a wise approach for avoiding the pitfalls we're discussing here.

[biostem]

I think there's room for different playstyles.  Sometimes I'm running a BAF and interject frequently with instructions and what is coming up and where everyone should be, other times I'm running casual PI radios open to all, just to unwind and wreak destruction upon some baddies with my brain mostly turned off.  I think the issue is the expectations of a team leader and those that join/they invite, and a general lack of communication...

[Greldek]

I think a scrapper or stalker or a sentinel too. All 3 of these can easily chase down and dispose of minions who were feared away from the main fight, and just need cleaning up, or a tough boss/EB that's hung around for a bit too long. a mastermind and corruptor could do this as well, but they also bring support for the rest of the group through their secondaries so might not be the best character to have hanging back behind people with. and blasters are often quite valuable for the inital strike to clear out most of the minions and lts.

[Zect]

The best answer is a stalker. Typically, it's bosses and EB's that survive the initial broadside of aoe's and need to be cleaned up. A well-played stalker can often ensure that these hard targets die soon after the smaller critters.

 

Alternately, since it's monotonous to play stalkers all the time, the next-best way to deal with stragglers is to pull them along with you to be killed with the next spawn. I often see players stay behind to attempt to deal with surviving hard targets. If you do not have a means of killing them quickly and the wavefront of the team is already departing, dragging them forward to get nuked with the next group upstream (or herding the next group back) can be more efficient.

 

I'm amused this thread has spawned 4 pages of people talking past each other on how to tank, what pace the team should move at, and who is and is not being a team player. If pressed, I couldn't give an answer to any of these questions that's not "it depends" followed by a 5000 word essay. Sometimes I stick with the group, other times I'm halfway up the map. Sometimes I'll make every effort to keep everyone alive, other times I'm indifferent to their deaths. Sometimes I'll ensure every critter is dead before moving on. Other times, I'll run in and aggro the next 3 rooms while you clean up the one behind me. It all depends on my assessment of the tactical situation and my own as well as the team's capabilities, while always keeping in mind my knowledge of the content, terrain, mob behavior and the group's goals and declared strategy. The most I can say is that if I took the effort to join a team I am explicitly not playing as a solo player, even if the payoff for what I am doing may not be immediately or easily apparent.

 

I do sympathize with the people who feel that the game has got far too lolzerg since the beginning of the incarnate era, which is why hardmode has been such a breath of fresh air.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

which is why hardmode has been such a breath of fresh air.

like explosive diarrhea in a slaughterhouse

[Mjolnerd]

10 hours ago, Zect said:

I'm amused this thread has spawned 4 pages of people talking past each other on how to tank, what pace the team should move at, and who is and is not being a team player.

 

This thread is a fairly perfect illustration of the exact reason I never, ever team on any of my many, many tanks: Nobody can agree on what good tanking actually means, but they're all absolutely certain they're the only one who knows how to do it. And they all want to complain loudly whenever someone else does it "wrong."

Edited March 28, 2023 by Mjolnerd

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

This thread is a fairly perfect illustration of the exact reason I never, ever team on any of my many, many tanks: Nobody can agree on what good tanking actually means, but they're all absolutely certain they're the only one who knows how to do it. And they all want to complain loudly whenever someone else does it "wrong."

 

But, who do the pearl-clutchers blame on a team with no Tankers?

[Zect]

2 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

This thread is a fairly perfect illustration of the exact reason I never, ever team on any of my many, many tanks: Nobody can agree on what good tanking actually means, but they're all absolutely certain they're the only one who knows how to do it. And they all want to complain loudly whenever someone else does it "wrong."

 

You do you, obviously, but if it reassures you, my experience is that forumites may complain but people never confront me about it in-game. I'm certain I've committed every sin being shellacked in this thread and got complimented for it!

 

The purpose of the tank - the role, not always the AT, though it does get tools to facilitate that mission - is simply to set up good engagements. That could be anything from carefully pulling with a snipe (while knowing precisely which mobs in the horde are linked and will come when one of them is killed), to a surgical strike killing all 4 surgeons on top of the sybil temple perfectly timed such that the angry romans follow you to the steps just as the team finishes cleaning up the group before it. You have a blank canvas; now paint with the blood of your foes.

[Luminara]

Warshade.  Shadow Slip the strays into a nice cluster, Mire (and Mire again if you take Dwarf form), alternate Dark Extraction and Unchain Essence using the defeated enemies already lying around.  Stygian Circle the fresh pile of bodies, move forward.

[SteelRat70]

4 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

This thread is a fairly perfect illustration of the exact reason I never, ever team on any of my many, many tanks: Nobody can agree on what good tanking actually means, but they're all absolutely certain they're the only one who knows how to do it. And they all want to complain loudly whenever someone else does it "wrong."

Oh I think most people understand what the end result of good tanking is, but different people have different ideas on how that is achieved.

[ZemX]

4 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

This thread is a fairly perfect illustration of the exact reason I never, ever team on any of my many, many tanks: Nobody can agree on what good tanking actually means, but they're all absolutely certain they're the only one who knows how to do it. And they all want to complain loudly whenever someone else does it "wrong."

 

I've honestly experienced little of this IN GAME.   People say a lot of things on the forums, but most random teams I join with a Tanker are happy to have one.  Generally, as long as you are willing to dive into a pile of enemies head first every time and keep an eye on roaming aggro, you will get nothing but high fives.

 

You'll occasionally run into the micro-manager type of team lead who wants everything done a particular way, but those annoying individuals make themselves obvious and politely excusing myself after one mission has never been a problem.

[golstat2003]

18 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

politely excusing myself after one mission has never been a problem.

 

Pretty much the most perfect response to anything you don't like happening on a team or anything complained about in this entire thread.

 

I don't complain about teams I don't like. I just leave. Life is too short for aggravation during my COH time. I have work for aggravation.

 

(The other option is forming your own damn teams and running them anyway you like . . .  and can get other to go along with).

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

This thread is a fairly perfect illustration of the exact reason I never, ever team on any of my many, many tanks: Nobody can agree on what good tanking actually means, but they're all absolutely certain they're the only one who knows how to do it. And they all want to complain loudly whenever someone else does it "wrong."

I do not Tank.  I ran a Brute for years.  Redside.  Brutes job (Redside) was to take the Alpha then have fun.   If you wanted anything else go back to Fing blue.

 

Now I have created many Tanks.  Meh.  But this Winter season I slow levelled a Ice/Ice Tank for theme.  Never ran those sets before.  Mein Gott!  This is TANKING. Just wander into a room, taunt those farthest away and lazily activate powers.  When most are cleared wander to the next big spawn.  The dregs will follow you.  Every enemy hates Ice.  It's like Mind Control.  They HAVE to be near you.  NEED to be near you.  LOVE to be near you. It is taking the Alpha Beta Gamma Delta and looking for more greek letters.  Ice Ice Baby.  When you want all the agro.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Snarky

[cranebump]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

You'll occasionally run into the micro-manager type of team lead who wants everything done a particular way, but those annoying individuals make themselves obvious 

There's one particular soul, whose name I cannot recall, who was very much about old-school herding to a specific spot. I ended up on a team with them twice, after which I learned to spot them by their toon names (which were basically insults about farmers). Their style was effective, but absolutely joyless. They repeated the same instructions every time we went into a mish (even though we hadn't added anyone new). It was that way, or no way at all. Felt counterproductive, because it seemed like we were good enough to meet the enemies where they were, rather than take up position, note the herd point, then wait for the Tank's run down, run back. It wasn't like we were doing a master run or anything. These were just story arcs. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by cranebump

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I do not Tank.  I ran a Brute for years.  Redside.  Brutes job (Redside) was to take the Alpha then have fun.   If you wanted anything else go back to Fing blue.

 

Now I have created many Tanks.  Meh.  But this Winter season I slow levelled a Ice/Ice Tank for theme.  Never ran those sets before.  Mein Gott!  This is TANKING. Just wander into a room, taunt those farthest away and lazily activate powers.  When most are cleared wander to the next big spawn.  The dregs will follow you.  Every enemy hates Ice.  It's like Mind Control.  They HAVE to be near you.  NEED to be near you.  LOVE to be near you. It is taking the Alpha Beta Gamma Delta and looking for more greek letters.  Ice Ice Baby.  When you want all the agro.

Ice/ice is a fun combo.  It's got control, range, taunts, pretty much the whole deal.

[Techwright]

On 3/25/2023 at 6:04 PM, KaizenSoze said:

..., chars that do well at clean up. ...

 

Suggestions?

 

Just from the 50+ characters I play, I think probably the energy/energy blaster and the fire/ice blaster would clean up best.  Their primaries are good damage.  Granted bosses would be a tad more challenging, but those secondary power sets do a pretty good job at containment.

 

I suppose as an alternative, the illusion/storm controller would do well, but only at higher levels where he can summon more pets and for longer durations.

 

I've never played one, but I have to believe a spines/dark scrapper or possibly spines/fire would do a good job as well.

[Crossie]

everybody talking about tanks running off into oblivion.  What about MM pets.  SCATTER!!!!!

[gameboy1234]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:04 PM, KaizenSoze said:

Looking for the opposite of that, if it exists, chars that do well at clean up. That trail behind the team and deal with that's left of the spawn. That could mean finishing off bosses, buffing players, anything.

 

I play MMs a lot and I think they're perfect for this.  You can buff the team, buff your pets, and set the pets on auto half way through the fight so "clean up" doesn't take a lot of clicking on your part.  Want the spawn to follow you up to the next spawn?  Just have all your pets follow you (which you have hot-keyed, right?) and head out, easy peasy.

 

  Only problem with MMs is if we're talking incarnate or very fast moving content the pets can be hard to manage.