Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates

[Wavicle]

My main issue with AR now is that every attack has a different range!

It would be great if some of the shorter range attacks could be brought up to match some of the longer ones.

[Kaika]

I think this was less to bring back beanbag, and more of a compromise to add a non situational Single target power while not removing ignite, as due to the burn patch and Mag 50 afraid (which is still there for some reason) ignite remains situational, though much more powerful. As is right now just about everything in AR can be considered a straight buff from where is is on live, with the only thing really being lost is ignites ability to be places. I would still like to see a world where I get both ignite and Aim, but i see what they are trying to do here.

 

On a more constructive note,  I messed with it a little but I didn't do much in the way of testing, but as said before while this new ignite is pretty much a straight upgrade in terms of damage, it's still hampered by the mag 50 afraid. Considering enemies already run out of burn patches if not taunted, I don't see why this needs to be here, and I'm not sure anyone would miss it.

[Wavicle]

I thought the Afraid is WHY enemies run out.

[Kaika]

15 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I thought the Afraid is WHY enemies run out.

Only on ignite. Enemies are programed to run when taking constant damage from pseudo pets, like burn or rains, if not taunted or otherwise controlled. Ignite in theory would do this but it has a mag 50 Afraid, which is I think the only source of afraid left in the game, which forces it instantly. Normally Burns or rains cause enemies to run but it takes a moment or two, which lets you apply control or just get some extra damage on them. Afraid also leads to weird situations where enemies near a tank will get afraid applied to them causing them to turn around and run for a split second, then get taunted by their aura and turn back around in a odd spinning maneuver. Functionally it's not too much different, but it does harm the powers usability over things like burn or rain.

 

Keep in mind this is specifically "Afraid" NOT fear

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Afraid

Edited April 15, 2023 by Riot Siren

[Kaika]

Allow me to get together my thoughts a bit better about why this mag 50 afraid is no longer needed, at least in this incarnation of ignite. Now I can't seem to find the quote so take this with a grain of salt but I recall one of the OG devs stating the intention of ignite was actually more of a control "area denial" sort of power. The idea was the place it in-front of yourself to stop enemies from getting into melee with you, as they would touch the fire and instantly turn around and run away, rather then simply delivering it directly. Current ignite does this actually rather well, most enemies don't even reach you before turning tail if they touch it and those that do only tend to get off a single attack before fleeing. Now in the fast paced "Soft capped 45% S/L def 200% recharge blaster" days that use really isn't as important.

 

Given that it can no longer be place, in some way it's losing this original intention, which is fine honestly, but if that's the case, that mag 50 Afraid only serves to hamper the power as it's new incarnation is meant to be used solely offensively. I would actually recommend going a step further and adding a unehanceable immobilize effect to the main target, as it would serve it better as a attack and synergize well with the single target immobilize most blaster secondary get, and often skip now that they can. That way it can get more use when solo.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Riot Siren

[ScarySai]

From what I understand, ignite is supposed to make up for not having aim and is tuned higher than they otherwise would have. Not sure if I'd say it's that good, though.

 

A known issue is the flame patch is spawning at an incorrect level and is basically cosmetic until that's fixed. 

 

Second: the fear is obnoxious. I can mitigate it because I'm playing tac arrow, but good luck to any blokes without a slow or heavy knock tax.

Edited April 15, 2023 by ScarySai

[Wavicle]

I’ve been using the new Ignite on cooldown in my rotation. Works great. 
 

it’s definitely both an offensive power AND an area denial ability.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Wavicle

[Ice Ember]

Since Bean Bag is going to stay... add in a - defense and - resistance.  It will help in single target damage.  Maybe add in knock down as well.  Humor value I think it would be a funny attack.  And it would be thematic.  When you get smacked with the bean bag you get knocked down, left disoriented with decreased ability to defend yourself. 

 

I had an AR/Traps corruptor and created it when CoV was released and I swore I would never make another of either because of how terrible they were.  With the changes I made an AR/FF corruptor and I wanted to see the synergy with the added -resist in FF.  I do not notice the -resist (I am not recording the data) but it does play well and is an end hog. No sets at 48, just the SO's for now.  My ice/cold and fire/cold "feel" better.  The Spray and Pray Full Auto has the opportunity to hit more but it still less per spawn.  But Full Auto is available for more spawns. Force Bomb, Full Auto, and Flame Thrower with an added M30 with kb to kd proc will be interesting. 

 

Ignite changes.  I like Greek fire...   I dont like the slow activation on live and only use it when someone else immobilizes the enemy. 

 

cheers

[Starfox]

>> Sentinels/Inherent/Vulnerability: Updated description to state the effects of Vulnerability to not stack with other Sentinels.

 

There is a loading screen tip that should be changed to reflect this change.

It says something like "Sentinels can stack vulnerability to impressive effect".

[Booper]

39 minutes ago, Starfox said:

>> Sentinels/Inherent/Vulnerability: Updated description to state the effects of Vulnerability to not stack with other Sentinels.

 

There is a loading screen tip that should be changed to reflect this change.

It says something like "Sentinels can stack vulnerability to impressive effect".

Can you post in Beta Bug Reports section?

[Elementfury323]

Psionic Darts - All targets that are not selected had the base looking psionic darts of the pink instead of my changed fx. Not sure if this is intentional or not. 

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Elementfury323 said:

Psionic Darts - All targets that are not selected had the base looking psionic darts of the pink instead of my changed fx. Not sure if this is intentional or not. 

I can't possibly see that being intended haha

[Elementfury323]

3 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

I can't possibly see that being intended haha

Yeah I didn’t think so but hey you never know looked a bit cool either way

[Super Atom]

Just fuse slug and beanbag and give us aim. Please.

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Super Atom

[AxerJ]

2 hours ago, Super Atom said:

Just fuse slug and beanbag and give us aim. Please.

 

 

 

 

YES! That'd be an amazing, heroic resolution which would truly elevate AR...

Edited April 16, 2023 by AxerJ

[Zeraphia]

Overall I enjoy the changes, but I have to say, I do feel as if some blast sets were in relatively worse spots than the ones chosen.

 

I really think some of these 2 second not-snipe-but-heavy-hitter powers should get a glance at. Specifically thinking of Energy Blast and Radiation Blast in particular. AR definitely needed it though and I'm glad that it's in a better place. 

[Gobbledigook]

I think setting Full auto on blasters/defenders/corruptors to 2+ minutes recharge with 16 targets would be better. Let the sentinels have the niche of fast recharging yet weaker T9's. 

The Blasters get a really big nuke then to clear a group and let the Sentinel's whittle the group down with smaller nukes as they have the armor.

 

It's weird that they get a faster recharging T9 than Sentinel's and they still do more damage. Maybe doing this then Sentinel's can get a proper Full Auto that is in line with it's other T9's damage.

 

Do the same with Rain of arrows when possible.

 

I guess we need keep those 3.30sec Trapdoor times though. 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[WindDemon21]

On top of being 100% stupid that chemical ammo doesn't get the same damage as the other ammo types for suppressive fire, it's actually even LESS than they stated being literally almost zero damage on chemical ammo:

Please for the love of god fix this for chemical ammo to be the same damage as the other ammo types, this is ABSURD..

[WindDemon21]

7 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

It still does the standard lethal damage that's present with all ammo types, it's just the actual Toxic damage is near zero with Chemical Ammo. This is actually a decent compromise, because the scale 8 hold with Chemical Ammo is unchanged from the Live value, so anyone who relies on the hold in Suppressive Fire can still do so with this change.

 

I'd be more concerned with the Incendiary Ammo version of this power. Cryo Ammo can hold bosses in one shot, and Chemical Ammo's hold lasts twice as long, but Incendiary Ammo seems to get nothing, not even a fire damage DoT.

I'm more concerned with chemical ammo, cause until they fix swap ammo, chemical ammo is the only ammo type that usually has any real impact. So for it's ST dps fixed to be nerfed when the others are not does not sound good at all. Especially when that was given to ice for the mag 4, yet it still gets the damage. Please god just make chemical ammo have the full damage that the others have.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Entirely replacing a power with another power that does nothing close to what the original power did, is something we never do lightly. We have in the past bent the cottage rule significantly, but turning Beanbag into Aim was an extreme test case. Unlike other changes we move forward with despite some opposition, this was a complete removal of a power and replaced with something entirely different.

In the past, our most drastic changes have attempted to stick to add effects, change values, or in cases activation styles. However an ability that does damage, always retained damage even if values might change. Attempting to keep enhancement options consistent when we change powers is almost always a goal with rare exceptions to things like AoE/ST set categories. In this case, the only enhancements that the two powers could even share would have just been recharge and end cost.

With all this in mind, out of the gate we moved forward with the disclaimer that should there be opposition, it would be rolled back. This was never about popularity, but about avoiding as much disruption as possible and meeting certain performance goals. Even if the change to keep Aim was obviously more numerous, the disruption to its users was high enough that we decided to roll it back. In the process we tuned up the set a bit more, attempting to reintroduce some of the lost functionality in Ignite while we were at it.

I understand that some are disappointed with this approach, but we have adjusted the set to be very viable without the need of having Aim on its toolkit. Please, try to keep the feedback threads on topic and avoid further disparaging fellow players.

[FupDup]

I mean, we did offer a ton of different ideas like a ranged "follow up" power that had a stun built in to it, or moving the stun to a different power like Slug or Incinerator. It didn't even have to be an either-or scenario. 

[Wavicle]

21 minutes ago, FupDup said:

I mean, we did offer a ton of different ideas like a ranged "follow up" power that had a stun built in to it, or moving the stun to a different power like Slug or Incinerator. It didn't even have to be an either-or scenario. 

Based on the solution that was chosen, I would guess that most of all of those solutions would have required nerfing the stun itself. Since the change from Aim was done for people who wanted to keep the stun, I’m guessing they were non-starters for that reason.

 

 The change they settled on makes the power better at what it was doing originally.

[Dispari]

Agreed with that. Of course there was SOME pushback, no change is going to be universally liked, but it seems clear that people would rather have Aim than Beanbag. But as multiple people have pointed out you could also just have both.

[Mezmera]

42 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

It clearly didn't disrupt that many players, considering the reversal was significantly more unpopular.

 

On that same token there was so many more people giving feedback to the dislike of DP's new Suppressive Fire on a range of things from the hold being less effective to proc damage among other minor things and yet it's going to get pushed through as is.  And the best counter argument using faulty testing numbers was that there was no real change in damage when at first non testers were exaggerating it to being 16x more damage when they couldn't have been bothered to test the power set from the outset of the change showing just how much they like playing the set.  

 

With regards to your AR it feels like they were looking for that one person to say it now breaks their immersion so as to reverse course and not give it to you too well.  If the two AR players that don't want Aim are going to limit it's implementation there I'm sure DP players would like to take it off your hands and we can trade you this new 'improved' Suppressive Fire.  

[Galaxy Brain]

@Super Atom, @TotalThunder, your definitions seem to match mine in this case where a power can be "replaced" as long as the replacement has the same core. Ignite going to Incinerator for example was still an extreme Fire DoT. Beanbag becoming Aim loses the core entirely to become a totally different power.