A Letter to the Devs (Sound Nerfs)

[Solarverse]

I got to say, I think very little of those who would give this thread a thumbs down without any feedback as to why, when all it is asking for is either an explanation or a solution that presents to the players as an option, yet don't have the common courtesy of saying why they thumbed it down. I have referred to posters such as this as insufferables many times over the years because to me, that is just what they are. It's as if they have no real reason to thumb it down, they just do it anyway because...well, haters are going to hate I suppose. One of which follows me around thumbing down pretty much every other post I make, so clearly that one has a personal issue with me, I just don't care enough to find out why. I think some people are just shitty people, period. There is no rhyme or reason to them, clearly since they had nothing to add other than scrolling by and sticking their thumb down at it.

Sticking a thumb down at a post like this without giving a reason just strongly indicates to me that chances are, they were the ones who cried for the very nerf I am speaking of, didn't even ask it to be an option, it's their way or the highway with people like this. "It is not enough that I should succeed, everyone else must fail," would be a quote that best suites insufferables such as these. These are the same ones who couldn't be bothered to download a program, select the sound mods that would make their hated sounds go away, click enter and done...no, they would rather demand nerfs, no mention of options, just outright demand the nerf, then when I come in asking for an option to get those sounds back, they stick their thumb down at it.

Sorry if I sound salty, truth is, I am salty as hell, down right pissed. Trying very hard to keep my composure, but as you can see, when insufferables such as these do the things they do, it's like rubbing salt in the open wound and kicking a man while he's down at the same time. So yeah, you're damn right that I am salty about it.

I'll pull myself together shortly. Carry on.

 

 

[TheZag]

My dark melee doesnt sound like a boss anymore.  I has a sad.

 

Ill remain hopeful for a menu option to be available someday.

 

[Number Six]

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

That's why I argued for a change to the stacking — not to eliminate it completely, but to scale the effect so that each additional stack of a single sound increased the volume by less than the previous one, to keep them from becoming painful.

 

That's... exactly how it works now.

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, Number Six said:

 

That's... exactly how it works now.

 

Is there a setting we should be using to hear it? I heard a single application of the hit file when using foot stomp after that change was implemented. Wondering if it is designed to play through a particular sound setting in order to hear it?

Edit: Apparently I can't spell "heard" so I had to fix it.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Solarverse

[Number Six]

When a power hits multiple targets and also has a per-target hit fx that played a sound, N copies of the sound get queued to play at exactly the same time.

 

Normally if you play the same sound twice, the waveforms line up exactly and it causes the amplitude of the wave to double, increasing the loudness by about 6dB. For 3 targets it triples the amplitude, so about 9.5dB louder than the original. That also very quickly leads to clipping when the waveform gets pushed beyond the sample range - that crackling noise that could sometimes be heard on a really big howling twilight cast.

 

It was changed because it's inconsistent and surprising that while most powers produce sounds in a specific loudness range, a small number could be radically louder by multiple orders of magnitude. Not a good new player experience and there have been quite a few complaints about game volume.

 

Now when the sound system is told to play a sound that is already queued to play at the same instant, two things happen:

• A small random delay (0-0.1s) is added to prevent the waveforms from stacking. Instead of a single sound getting louder it sounds more like a chorus of multiple sounds. This also helps prevent ugly sample clipping.
• The additional copies of the sound have their volume reduced by multiplying it by 1/(Q+1) where Q is the number of copies of the sound already queued. The second copy is 50% volume, the third copy at 33%, 25%, etc. This means that the loudness range of the power is still technically unconstrained but in practice for most powers is within the 1.5x to 3x range, depending on how many targets are hit. That keeps things from getting out of control and being way outside the normal range. This can be seen most easily with long sounds like Howling Twilight. This would also apply to the foot stomp example, but be a lot harder to tell the difference because PunchHit2 is a short sound.

 

If you really want to destroy your eardrums when hitting 16 targets... I just added a slash command to the upcoming page 6 code to disable the new queue handling.

/loudstacking 1

Should do the trick. It's a persistent setting that goes in the json file so it'll remember it across play sessions, but not one that I'm putting time into adding to the UI.

[Glacier Peak]

Nobody plays this game at 100% in game volume. That's impossible! 

[Arc-Mage]

I’ve been playing this game almost continuously since day one and never play with the sound on. I was somewhat surprised by the number of people who, like myself, also don’t play with the sound on.
 

I brought it up randomly once on the old forums. I was surprised by response. I would gather there is still a fair number of players to this day who still play CoH without sound.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Nobody plays this game at 100% in game volume. That's impossible! 

I play at 10% for most sound, usually 0% on music.

[Xiddo]

I read @Solarverse’s letter yesterday. I’ll admit I don’t understand their POV as I play without sound, but I still found it sad that a thing changing in this game made them stop playing.

I realise it isn’t very cool to be sincere on the internet but I hope this change…

 

4 hours ago, Number Six said:

I just added a slash command to the upcoming page 6 code to disable the new queue handling.

/loudstacking 1

Should do the trick. 

… means you can come back to the City Solar. And thanks to @Number Six for giving them the option.

[High_Beam]

Because my game play area is a shared space in our house where my spouse watches TV and we have periodic pause and talk time, I have always played with the sound muted on my PC, not in game . . . unless I am alone or hunting a missing glowie.  Conversely I get to enjoy not hearing howling pets . . . or Howling Twilight . . . but the Howling wasn't a bad movie.

[Solarverse]

12 hours ago, Number Six said:

 

If you really want to destroy your eardrums when hitting 16 targets... I just added a slash command to the upcoming page 6 code to disable the new queue handling.

/loudstacking 1

Should do the trick. It's a persistent setting that goes in the json file so it'll remember it across play sessions, but not one that I'm putting time into adding to the UI.

 

Thank you sooooo very much, if it weren't weird I would kiss you for this! And yes, I do indeed want to blow my eardrums out, lol. Thank you, Number Six!

[Solarverse]

8 hours ago, Xiddo said:

I read @Solarverse’s letter yesterday. I’ll admit I don’t understand their POV as I play without sound, but I still found it sad that a thing changing in this game made them stop playing.

I realise it isn’t very cool to be sincere on the internet but I hope this change…

 

… means you can come back to the City Solar. And thanks to @Number Six for giving them the option.

 

Indeed it does!

[Xiddo]

Welcome back 🙂 

[TheZag]

16 hours ago, TheZag said:

Ill remain hopeful for a menu option to be available someday.

 

Turns out someday was about 2 hours

 

14 hours ago, Number Six said:

I just added a slash command to the upcoming page 6 code to disable the new queue handling.

/loudstacking 1

 

 

 appreciate ya, @Number Six.

 

[lemming]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

Indeed it does!

YAY!

[Oubliette_Red]

23 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Nobody plays this game at 100% in game volume. That's impossible! 

 

I play with mine set at 3 and sometimes it's still too loud.

 

[Glacier Peak]

8 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I play with mine set at 3 and sometimes it's still too loud.

In all honesty, I play with all the sound settings at 3 also, except for the game music which is 0. I only turn on the game music if I'm playing with lowbies. 

 

Can't beat the sound of the character creator then loading in to Atlas Park for the first time though!

[ZemX]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:37 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Nobody plays this game at 100% in game volume. That's impossible! 

 

 

In-game volume is just one stage in the sound pipeline.  I leave master in-game volume settings at 100% in every game and control what reaches my ears with he amplifier knob.

 

That said, CoH is certainly on the loud side.  I have to set the Windows volume to 20% while playing it whereas it's 30-35% for most other games.

 

[Herotu]

On 4/20/2023 at 3:45 PM, Solarverse said:

 

Indeed it does!

Yay! 😄 wb.

[Sanguinesun]

CoH

Caucophony of Headaches

[Herotu]

18 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

CoH

Caucophony of Headaches

It's a big deal. This game is all about welcoming all types and genres of heroes. So the sound guys must have had an absolute nightmare trying to cobble together sounds that suit all manner of character. 

 

Pile that problem on top of the questions they must have had for themselves;

What do all these different things sound like? What does Invincibility sound like? What is the sound of "Sound"? What is the sound of "Radiation"? So the chosen audio isn't really true-to-life - just a choice, a representation. - so a modder replacing them seems 100% legit to me.

I have a lot of sympathy for those sound guys - but I'd have tried to be more subtle, but they weren't so we have what we have. With mods, we have the option to change some of those decisions.

 

I think a lot of the loops, for example, are annoying and I've already silenced many on my client. It's not perfect, but I think perfect is going to be a very long term project - unless we get an AI to do it, hahaha - I'm laughing in 2023. With a little cynicism and a little fear.