Nerf Bait

[Scarlet Shocker]

I must say that so far as I am concerned, bait is perfectly balanced as it is and is in no need of nerfs or indeed buffs.

 

I learned to master bait a very long time ago and I see no reason to stop now!

 

 

[InvaderStych]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

 

i am still giving “feedback” on the great brute fury nerf and the disparity between ATOs that are incredible for Scrapping and garbage for Brutes 

 

I'll trade you.

 

When Attacks/Auras in the armor sets for Scappers and Stalkers get critical hits, you can have Brute Buffs. 😄

 

(Fury buffs the Brute equivalents, AoE size increases buff the Tanker equivalents)

[Troo]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

 

They aren't supposed to talk about it in the open for exactly the reasons this thread starts to skim upon. 

 

not asking for details from Gold Standard Tester discord or closed beta secrets. just the usual scuttle butt from the regular channel (which does not have ANY restrictions)

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Troo

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

They aren't supposed to talk about it in the open for exactly the reasons this thread starts to skim upon. 

 

Spongy dildos start appearing?

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, InvaderStych said:

 

I'll trade you.

 

When Attacks/Auras in the armor sets for Scappers and Stalkers get critical hits, you can have Brute Buffs. 😄

 

(Fury buffs the Brute equivalents, AoE size increases buff the Tanker equivalents)

you know how blessed Scrappers and Stalkers alreasy are with the best ATOs, and Tankers with AoE.

 

Still....you prod

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

not asking for details from Gold Standard Tester discord or closed beta secrets. just the usual scuttle butt from the regular channel (which does not have ANY restrictions)

 

Yeah and where does that info originally come from?

 

Or are we just making stuff up? I can go first if you'd like.

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

I get that from the RPG part of the game, but it's an MMO too. I remember I couldn't even start a Taskforce or Trial back in the day because it required a certain number of players (like incarnate trials now). That was a nice QoL update on HC to make mostly everything soloable, because power creep already made it easy enough to not need teammates.

 

I started in Issue 1 and one of the first things I did was get some real life friends to play because I kept dying in the Perez Park maze and needed help lol

 

Same here. It's true, I did have to get other people to pad to start TFs and keep at least one on the team but logged off in order to solo them.

 

The game is far MORE soloable nowadays then at the beginning but that didn't stop me from soloing 99% of the time.

[Troo]

54 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Yeah and where does that info originally come from?

 

Or are we just making stuff up? I can go first if you'd like.

 

is your concern spoilers?

 

discord and these forums are not intended to be walled off. we've often discussed potential changes openly. once something goes to development spoilers are avoided.

[wjrasmussen]

22 hours ago, Snarky said:

I never know.  I am never on test.  I play on live and when it drops there my feedback starts

 

i am still giving “feedback” on the great brute fury nerf and the disparity between ATOs that are incredible for Scrapping and garbage for Brutes 

 

always to no avail

What do you think the brute ato should have added/removed?

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 6/11/2023 at 1:55 PM, Troo said:

Anyone wanna provide some insight for those non-discorders?

 

1 hour ago, Troo said:

we've often discussed potential changes openly. once something goes to development spoilers are avoided.

 

Okay so are we trying to get insight from beta or just shoot the shot about what might be in the pipeline?   Your verbiage doesn't track.

 

1 hour ago, Troo said:

is your concern spoilers?

 

My concern? Not spoilers. I'm not really someone who gets revved up over game changes.

 

My concern is people get their butts to Gold Standard and do good Closed Testing for the devs, rather than undermine the entire process by spilling word here.

 

 

Again, unless we're just making stuff up.

 

Like how Regen is getting stacking damage resist ala SR baked into its auto powers.

Edited June 12, 2023 by twozerofoxtrot

[Skyhawke]

3 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

What do you think the brute ato should have added/removed?

 

6 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Spongy dildos start appearing?

 

Boy, Spines Brutes would get more...interesting,  wouldn't they? 

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

What do you think the brute ato should have added/removed?

 

Scrapper/Stalkers get ludicrous damage.

Tanks get ludicrous resistance.

At least add some defense/resistance to the brute ATOs on top of the existing fury building and call it a day.

[JasperStone]

18 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Using nerf bait to catch nerfs is certainly one way to go.  But if you domesticate nerfs, then you can become a nerf herder and that's where the big bucks are.

Are nerf bats ok?

I really want to  ... knock it out of the park

[ZemX]

21 hours ago, JasperStone said:

There are already existing sets that boost recharge !!!!!!!

Who knew......

 

Well, I did, for one.  The point I was making, perhaps not well enough, is that some powersets have MORE opportunities for stuff like this than others.  An even more obvious example is Luck of the Gambler: Global Recharge.  Everybody uses this, but some people have a much easier time reaching the limit of 5 simply by having more (or any) defense powers in their primary and/or secondary to slot it.

 

It's also just one example to illustrate that %procs are not some equal benefit that evens out everybody even just for solo defeat speed.

[ZemX]

21 hours ago, tidge said:

I'm not referring to balance among power sets, but balance among Archetypes.

 

I don't think that changes much.  You might see a lot of similarity in powersets available to melee archetypes but among all archetypes the powers available to them are wildly different and therefor so too are the proc opportunities.

 

21 hours ago, tidge said:

As far as the precious argument about FF %+Recharge(*1) goes...

 

Yeah, lemme nip this one in the bud.  It was an example to illustrate how different powers means different opportunities to slot procs.  I know you know this.  The procs only go in certain powers.  FF:Recharge, Lotg:Recharge, and Achilles:-res are some of the most commonly slotted procs to increase performance.  Ston's entire analysis of melee powersets could be boiled down to (1) Which sets have the best DPA attacks in a chain, and (2) Which sets offered the most opportunities for procs.  Even missing one Achilles proc could rearrange the rankings for soloing.

 

22 hours ago, tidge said:

I have seen %damage procs help improve the performance of non-DPS ATs both while leveling, and when they have lots of extra slots (at higher levels).

 

I agree with this.  I think procs, together with Incarnates and IO sets, have all acted to push the various ATs closer together.  I don't think they are even close to balanced in clear times as a result, but perhaps they are closer than before.  They key thing all three of those things do is give the AT access to stuff it didn't have before.   I happen to think it's the biggest FLAW in all of them, but that's me.  I do not see solo clear time as a goal for balancing.  The AT differences promoted diversity and encouraged teaming that was actually interesting.  This can still be found in lower levels, where people do not have as many sets or ANY incarnates yet.  I'd have quit by now if the Incarnate steam-roller endgame was all this game had left to offer.  I can handle that in small doses, but it gets boring and pointless super fast.

[InvaderStych]

10 hours ago, Snarky said:

you know how blessed Scrappers and Stalkers alreasy are with the best ATOs, and Tankers with AoE.

 

Still....you prod

 

Meh.

 

Scrappers/Stalkers been getting shafted on attacks in their secondaries since 2005. Tell ya what. re-write Fury and Tanker Buffs so attacks in armor sets are not buffed by those things and I'll consider that more balanced.

 

😛

 

Brutes deserve better ATOs - Tanker ATOs are insanely good with that stacking resistance. But ATOs and Inherents are two separate issues. Conflating them =/= balance.

[ZemX]

17 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

No, it wasn't. It was envisioned as a soloable game from day 1 and geared in a way to satisfy the holy trinity crowd as well.

 

/psst, we're both correct.

 

Soloable and "designed for soloing" are not the same thing.

 

Saying it was designed as a team game does  not preclude the ability to solo.  But you know as well as anyone how many more barriers existed to soloing back then than today.  If you wanted to team, anything worked because the idea was a team filled in anything you didn't do for yourself whether that was making up for poor damage or poor self defense or whatever.   The same simply isn't true soloing where you can only rely on what you had.   You might have been able to solo with anything but your performance doing so was wildly different from one AT and/or powerset to the next.  Why?  Because it just wasn't a goal to balance the game around soloing.  

 

I would put up something like SWTOR as a better example of an MMO that was designed to solo simply for making NPC companions available to fill another team role.

[TheZag]

Rage is getting the defense crash removed and the damage crash is going from -10000% to -200% but only if you dont double stack.  If you do double stack then the defense crash remains and the damage crash is -500%.

 

Super reflexes scaling damage resist starts at 80% (up from 60%) and reaches is max effectiveness at 20% (up from 0%).  The total resist value remains unchanged,  it just takes full effect before you are dead.

 

Storm cell is removed because too many people complained about it and is replaced with voltaic sentinel.  All abilities that were improved by storm cell had no changes even though their utility is diminished.  All their descriptions still reference storm cell to remind people what happens when they whine too much.

 

Regen got deleted and every character that was using regen as a secondary will now have willpower instead.  A free respec and the worlds smallest violin will be credited to the affected characters.

 

Badge count will be capped at 1200.  All current badges will still exist but once you hit 1200 you can no longer earn badges on that character.  Choose what you want wisely because this could prevent you from getting accolade powers.

 

[Snarky]

11 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

What do you think the brute ato should have added/removed?

Giving +Fury as an ATO effect on Brutes is equivalent to giving +0% damage in 90% encounters.  Not my job to solve the games issues.  But this is one of the many reasons I stopped playing Brutes.  It is an AT that has been hated by EVERY generation of CoH/V Devs, or at least hated on.  I have walked away.

[MHertz]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:04 AM, Oubliette_Red said:

Um, Regen. My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who overheard it talked about at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.

 

Your health bar moves pretty fast. If you don’t look stop and around once in a while, you’ll miss it.

[MHertz]

Accidental double post.

Edited June 12, 2023 by MHertz

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Meh.

 

Scrappers/Stalkers been getting shafted on attacks in their secondaries since 2005. Tell ya what. re-write Fury and Tanker Buffs so attacks in armor sets are not buffed by those things and I'll consider that more balanced.

 

😛

 

Brutes deserve better ATOs - Tanker ATOs are insanely good with that stacking resistance. But ATOs and Inherents are two separate issues. Conflating them =/= balance.

maybe you are the only one that got that message, because the Brute inherent has been heavily nerfed.  then other Melee ATOs get buffed, AND all the other Melee ATs got great ATOs while Brutes got crap.   

 

Everyone that has "adjusted" the game has seen 'good reasons' to make sure Brutes get the very short end every time.  

[Captain Fabulous]

1 hour ago, TheZag said:

Rage is getting the defense crash removed and the damage crash is going from -10000% to -200% but only if you dont double stack.  If you do double stack then the defense crash remains and the damage crash is -500%.

 

Super reflexes scaling damage resist starts at 80% (up from 60%) and reaches is max effectiveness at 20% (up from 0%).  The total resist value remains unchanged,  it just takes full effect before you are dead.

 

Storm cell is removed because too many people complained about it and is replaced with voltaic sentinel.  All abilities that were improved by storm cell had no changes even though their utility is diminished.  All their descriptions still reference storm cell to remind people what happens when they whine too much.

 

Regen got deleted and every character that was using regen as a secondary will now have willpower instead.  A free respec and the worlds smallest violin will be credited to the affected characters.

 

Badge count will be capped at 1200.  All current badges will still exist but once you hit 1200 you can no longer earn badges on that character.  Choose what you want wisely because this could prevent you from getting accolade powers.

 

You got me all excited with the Rage bit and then it was like...

[TheZag]

3 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

You got me all excited with the Rage bit and then it was like...

 

I tried to start a bit believable and get more ridiculous as i went.

 

[wjrasmussen]

7 hours ago, Snarky said:

Giving +Fury as an ATO effect on Brutes is equivalent to giving +0% damage in 90% encounters.  Not my job to solve the games issues.  But this is one of the many reasons I stopped playing Brutes.  It is an AT that has been hated by EVERY generation of CoH/V Devs, or at least hated on.  I have walked away.

I see your point.  I have more brutes than any other type.