Nerf Bait

[Troo]

Anyone wanna provide some insight for those non-discorders?

 

Any discussion on sets that may be in the crosshairs or any specific game mechanics?

 

Any good news?

[Snarky]

I never know.  I am never on test.  I play on live and when it drops there my feedback starts

 

i am still giving “feedback” on the great brute fury nerf and the disparity between ATOs that are incredible for Scrapping and garbage for Brutes 

 

always to no avail

[Bionic_Flea]

Regen.

[Parabola]

I've become a bit jaded waiting for changes to procs (assuming changes are indeed coming). Depending on what these look like it could change the wider balance picture between some AT's and powersets so much that it almost seems not worth thinking about other balance concerns until this is resolved. I hate the feeling that the rug could be pulled out from under builds that I'm playing or planning.

[Glacier Peak]

Nerf Bait is overpowered, gives the poster too many views. 

[tidge]

45 minutes ago, Parabola said:

I've become a bit jaded waiting for changes to procs (assuming changes are indeed coming). Depending on what these look like it could change the wider balance picture between some AT's and powersets so much that it almost seems not worth thinking about other balance concerns until this is resolved. I hate the feeling that the rug could be pulled out from under builds that I'm playing or planning.

 

I choose to believe that there won't be wholesale changes to %procs. I don't doubt for a minute that there is some serious consideration of hitting them with the "nerf bat", but in practice: adding %damage procs allows entire ATs to come within an order of-magnitude of mission completion, with respect to clear times, as ATs with larger inherent damage scales. Since game rewards (XP, Inf, Drops) are essentially entirely tied to defeats (Aether Particles are the only reward that leans away from this paradigm) %damage procs provide far more balance in the City especially since there is no practical "gate" to adding them to any build.... as they are achievable through crafting, through the market, through converter roulette, etc.

 

With %damage PPM available, the game has become an overwhelmingly balanced play experience. I can't imagine sacrificing this just to explicitly return to an era of the game when some AT achieve rewards a a significantly reduced rate.

 

 

[Shred Monkey]

36 minutes ago, tidge said:

With %damage PPM available, the game has become an overwhelmingly balanced play experience.

 

That said, if they want to go back to something like we had before, I'll be happy to exploit the heck out of it.

 

[ZemX]

40 minutes ago, tidge said:

especially since there is no practical "gate" to adding them to any build...

 

Baloney?  There is zero balance among ATs and powersets around who can slot which procs.  Entire powersets provide huge differences in global recharge just for having more places to put FF:Recharge.  And that goes for every kind of enhancement category.  Some powers slot more than others.  There is absolutely zero balance here.

 

But putting all that aside, what you're claiming is "overwhelming" game balance is just solo clear speed.  The idea the game even SHOULD be balanced by solo clear speed is already debatable but it's also not even close to true for all ATs and powersets today anyway.  %dmg procs don't solve that.  They push a few ATs a bit closer together maybe but even that isn't 100% due to procs.  Likely all the testing you've looked at has included IO enhancement sets and Incarnate powers too.  All of that, by virtue of being available to all, pushes everybody a bit closer together.  

 

You might say it makes us all less different at the top end of the game and while one way to characterize that is "more balanced" the other way is "less diverse".   This was envisioned as a team game and many people play it that way.   That some ATs have less solo ability and more team utility in the bargain is a feature... not a bug.

[Skyhawke]

For fun, I googled "nerfbat". The new version...um...well...not what I remember. New design to...uh...aid in the "nerfing"? 😐😮😳😏

[Oubliette_Red]

Um, Regen. My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who overheard it talked about at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.

 

[MoonSheep]

instead of nerfs, how about an x16 option for WSTs, spicy

[tidge]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Baloney?  There is zero balance among ATs and powersets around who can slot which procs.  Entire powersets provide huge differences in global recharge just for having more places to put FF:Recharge.  And that goes for every kind of enhancement category.  Some powers slot more than others.  There is absolutely zero balance here.

 

But putting all that aside, what you're claiming is "overwhelming" game balance is just solo clear speed.  The idea the game even SHOULD be balanced by solo clear speed is already debatable but it's also not even close to true for all ATs and powersets today anyway.  %dmg procs don't solve that.  They push a few ATs a bit closer together maybe but even that isn't 100% due to procs.  Likely all the testing you've looked at has included IO enhancement sets and Incarnate powers too.  All of that, by virtue of being available to all, pushes everybody a bit closer together. 

 

I'm not referring to balance among power sets, but balance among Archetypes. As far as the precious argument about FF %+Recharge(*1) goes... characters still have an endurance cost (*1)to bear with casting powers (faster), and as a practical matter the five seconds of extra global recharge is going to offer only marginal improvements in defeat speed... especially if a character has already got global +Recharge. This is just my experience: Trimming even as much as six seconds off the recharge time of a 'nuke' only yields marginal improvements in completed mission times... mostly because smarter use of the 'nuke' almost always trumps spamming the 'nuke'.

 

To the extent my experience is derived from play and/or testing: I almost never play Incarnate content, and I rarely play level; 45+ content. I have seen %damage procs help improve the performance of non-DPS ATs both while leveling, and when they have lots of extra slots (at higher levels).

 

(*1) Knockback powers that can slot FF: %+Recharge come with additional price in game-play: They scatter enemies, making AoE attacks less reliable (most evident for even-level spawns, as well as enemies susceptible to knockback)

 

(*2) Specific to global Recharge and Endurance burn: IMO Dominators provide the clearest manifestation of what extreme rates of Global Racharge will result in. If Domination didn't auto refill the endurance bar, perma-Domination would involve a very different sort of calculus.

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Nerf Bait is overpowered, gives the poster too many views. 

So….we should nerf nerf bait?

[JasperStone]

22 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Baloney?  There is zero balance among ATs and powersets around who can slot which procs.  Entire powersets provide huge differences in global recharge just for having more places to put FF:Recharge.  And that goes for every kind of enhancement category.  Some powers slot more than others.  There is absolutely zero balance here.

 

But putting all that aside, what you're claiming is "overwhelming" game balance is just solo clear speed.  The idea the game even SHOULD be balanced by solo clear speed is already debatable but it's also not even close to true for all ATs and powersets today anyway.  %dmg procs don't solve that.  They push a few ATs a bit closer together maybe but even that isn't 100% due to procs.  Likely all the testing you've looked at has included IO enhancement sets and Incarnate powers too.  All of that, by virtue of being available to all, pushes everybody a bit closer together.  

 

You might say it makes us all less different at the top end of the game and while one way to characterize that is "more balanced" the other way is "less diverse".   This was envisioned as a team game and many people play it that way.   That some ATs have less solo ability and more team utility in the bargain is a feature... not a bug.

There are already existing sets that boost recharge !!!!!!!

Who knew......

Edited June 12, 2023 by JasperStone

[Yomo Kimyata]

Using nerf bait to catch nerfs is certainly one way to go.  But if you domesticate nerfs, then you can become a nerf herder and that's where the big bucks are.

[Skyhawke]

Nerf bait and switch?

[momentarygrace]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Using nerf bait to catch nerfs is certainly one way to go.  But if you domesticate nerfs, then you can become a nerf herder and that's where the big bucks are.

 

 

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

For fun, I googled "nerfbat". The new version...um...well...not what I remember. New design to...uh...aid in the "nerfing"? 😐😮😳😏

 

Huh.  I didn't know Hasbro was using the porn industry for design inspiration.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Luminara

[Captain Fabulous]

2 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Huh.  I didn't know Hasbro was using the porn industry for design inspiration.

Ribbed for her pleasure? Or his??? 🤔

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 hours ago, ZemX said:

This was envisioned as a team game and many people play it that way. 

 

No, it wasn't. It was envisioned as a soloable game from day 1 and geared in a way to satisfy the holy trinity crowd as well.

 

/psst, we're both correct.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bionic_Flea]

17 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It was envisioned as a soloable game from day 1

 

It's much more solo friendly now.  But the original game required teaming for TFs, Trials, and even some missions (click two things at same time).  Now I think the only thing that requires teaming is raids, I-trials, and . . . I'm forgetting something.

[Glacier Peak]

55 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

No, it wasn't. It was envisioned as a soloable game from day 1 and geared in a way to satisfy the holy trinity crowd as well.

 

/psst, we're both correct.

I get that from the RPG part of the game, but it's an MMO too. I remember I couldn't even start a Taskforce or Trial back in the day because it required a certain number of players (like incarnate trials now). That was a nice QoL update on HC to make mostly everything soloable, because power creep already made it easy enough to not need teammates.

 

I started in Issue 1 and one of the first things I did was get some real life friends to play because I kept dying in the Perez Park maze and needed help lol

[Skyhawke]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Huh.  I didn't know Hasbro was using the porn industry for design inspiration.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Ribbed for her pleasure? Or his??? 🤔

 

I am so glad I'm not the only one that thought this. 😅

[Captain Fabulous]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No, it wasn't. It was envisioned as a soloable game from day 1 and geared in a way to satisfy the holy trinity crowd as well.

 

/psst, we're both correct.

There's quite a bit of evidence showing it was really the other way around, but suffice to say the game was always designed for both. Jack did everything he could to dissuade people from soloing but acknowledged it was a necessary evil that he couldn't eliminate.

[twozerofoxtrot]

19 hours ago, Troo said:

Anyone wanna provide some insight for those non-discorders?

 

Any discussion on sets that may be in the crosshairs or any specific game mechanics?

 

Any good news?

 

 

They aren't supposed to talk about it in the open for exactly the reasons this thread starts to skim upon.