Pride.

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, Akisan said:

Lumi's (probably*) mad

 

This is amusement, not anger.  If I were angry, there'd be a GM here in a fire truck (which is fun, too, because their sirens don't work and they have to stick their heads out the window and shout ME MAW ME MAW ME MAW).

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

ME MAW ME MAW ME MAW

Fake news!  Everybody knows said sirens, in fact, go "wee-ooh wee-ooh wee-ooh".

[honoroit]

6 hours ago, lemming said:

I believe they were taking PRIDE in their tanks?

what was that show... it was great at the time. cheesy, but good 🧀

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

"Mayonaise:

 

Scrapper noodle stick wallaby. Energy!

Peanut butter and jelly.  Brawl."

/powercreep

[Luminara]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

Fake news!  Everybody knows said sirens, in fact, go "wee-ooh wee-ooh wee-ooh".

 

Only if you touch the GMs inappropriately.  And anyone trying to touch the GMs inappropriately is going to have to touch me inappropriately first.

 

[kelika2]

I understand many of you are kinda bored.  Suggestions and Feedback is by far the fastest moving board and thats an attraction to many of you.

 

But can you not?

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

That would be because the original post was gibberish, with a completely unrelated title.  What does "Pride" have to do with anything?

Others got it, theres no reason to type that much because of a few moments of confusion.

Please stop.

 

[honoroit]

on topic then:

 

dmg like spectral wounds on taunt to -

1/ put more threat / punchvoke on taunter AT

2/ let taunt clip low end crap as an execute (shitty gear coggy things etc would be killed if enough phantom dmg)

3/ make taunt a more attractive pick, especially coupled with io that chance for psi dmg

4/ like a bit less than 'fault' damage?

 

i like it, personally, but powercreep - or needed enablement?

Edited July 24, 2023 by honoroit

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Others got it, theres no reason to type that much because of a few moments of confusion.

 

19 hours... and half a page of discussion...

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

"Mayonaise:

 

Scrapper noodle stick wallaby. Energy!

Peanut butter and jelly.  Brawl."

 

Not bad.  It has a flow to it, expressing the Vogonity of the writer please don't blow me out of the airlock.

[honoroit]

 

now i remember...

[Rudra]

52 minutes ago, honoroit said:

on topic then:

 

dmg like spectral wounds on taunt to -

1/ put more threat / punchvoke on taunter AT

2/ let taunt clip low end crap as an execute (shitty gear coggy things etc would be killed if enough phantom dmg)

3/ make taunt a more attractive pick, especially coupled with io that chance for psi dmg

4/ like a bit less than 'fault' damage?

 

i like it, personally, but powercreep - or needed enablement?

 

1) Tankers and Brutes are the only ATs with 400 threat ratings. Scrappers come in 2nd at 300. All other ATs are 200 or 100.

2) Any AoE can already do this. So why should Taunt need to fill this role?

3) Taunts are already attractive picks for anyone that has a desire to keep mobs off their squishier allies or even pull groups out of hazardous areas.

4) I have no idea what you mean by this.

 

So my question becomes, how is the OP needed enablement?

 

And I still have my previous questions such as:

What about the loss of utility, from having taunts do their own damage even without the proc, thus breaking soft mezzes like sleeps?

Why should an attack do more damage to higher tier foes than lower tier ones, taking away the advantage higher tier foes have in survivability compared to lower tier enemies?

Why there should be a new damage type added to the game that increases based on having non-damage enhancements slotted?

Would the proposed illusion damage be subject to psi' damage resist and defense, need new DEF/RES created, or would it be unresistable for being non-standard damage?

What about the 0 END cost for what is now an AoE attack instead of a non-damaging tool to pull targets off allies or just to pull them to you?

What other changes would be needed to balance out the proposal, like making all taunts now have a to hit check to see if it connects, taking away another advantage of taunts?

What about the aggro cap that you mentioned, especially after you consider that soft mezzes will now be broken by taunts?

Why Tankers/Brutes would even need yet more damage sources in their power sets than they already get from their power sets?

If also applied to "punchvokes", why do their regular attacks need the extra damage boost automatically built in?

[Psyonico]

Taunt:

1. Auto Hit

2. No end cost

3. Ranged

4. AoE

 

Getting a damage portion added to this (even illusory) seems like it would make taunt *too* good, so what of the above do you give up?

 

I'll take none of the above, and no change, thank you.

[honoroit]

taunt is pretty useless and dangerous, at target cap. the extras flip attention (eg added group), the released will recapture from taunt aura, and youve a flip activated mob loose, with its range reduced, wholl go to the highest threat it is aware of aside the caster.

 

granted, that's with a lot of monsters, but not all that uncommon. aside, and functionally, its rarely if ever required.

 

taunt already can do damage with the io adding chance for psi, which is nice i suppose, in the set that gives it.

 

but, to me, core problem is the mobs wont stick past target cap on you, same as if you try to pick up too many in a farm.

 

if anything, doubling the target cap or extending it with taunt, specifically, would be nice.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, honoroit said:

taunt is pretty useless and dangerous, at target cap. the extras flip attention (eg added group), the released will recapture from taunt aura, and youve a flip activated mob loose, with its range reduced, wholl go to the highest threat it is aware of aside the caster.

 

granted, that's with a lot of monsters, but not all that uncommon. aside, and functionally, its rarely if ever required.

 

taunt already can do damage with the io adding chance for psi, which is nice i suppose, in the set that gives it.

 

but, to me, core problem is the mobs wont stick past target cap on you, same as if you try to pick up too many in a farm.

 

if anything, doubling the target cap or extending it with taunt, specifically, would be nice.

The difference between taunt as is at target cap and taunt as changed by the OP at target cap? As is doesn't break soft mezzes, but the OP does. So the likelihood of loose mobs going after allies you don't want them to? Goes up.

 

Edit: Also, slotting the damage proc into Taunt? Is a player choice about how (s)he wants their taunt to work. The OP takes that choice choice away and makes it mandatory.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Rudra

[Zect]

I came to explain why the OP's idea is terrible, and found that numerous people have already done so. Excellent display of civic-mindedness.

 

1 hour ago, honoroit said:

but, to me, core problem is the mobs wont stick past target cap on you, same as if you try to pick up too many in a farm.

 

if anything, doubling the target cap or extending it with taunt, specifically, would be nice.

 

Increasing target caps is an indirect (but extremely powerful) buff to aoe powers, which are already very strong in coh, so this idea is awful, too. Knowing how not to engage above the tank's target cap if necessary is just something players need to learn.

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Taunt:

1. Auto Hit

2. No end cost

3. Ranged

4. AoE

 

Getting a damage portion added to this (even illusory) seems like it would make taunt *too* good, so what of the above do you give up?

On paper it does sound good, but Taunt is skipped in many builds (your personal experience may vary) and only really used in League or pulling situations.  But most of this game is wading through endless seas of minions at a fast pace.

I offer nothing to give up in this situation because this isnt a 1960s board game where a potion gives and takes and the fact Taunt only hits 5 targets

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Others got it, theres no reason to type that much because of a few moments of confusion.

Please stop.

 

You'll note I asked questions about it, as well. Granted, you've answered one of them, somewhat, in later posts.

 

I think you're making assumptions and asking for something that really isn't needed. Right now I have the *option* to add damage into my taunts (and yes, I think adding it to Gauntlet would be absolute overkill.) I'm not *as* concerned about it breaking sleep - when I'm using sleeps, most of the time it's to shut down problematic enemy powers (-tohit auras and dispersion bubbles come to mind,) which aren't immediately available to the NPC even if they're woken right away.

 

Where are you getting the idea "Taunt is skipped in many builds?" Forum builds that are around to min/max? Farm builds? I wouldn't draw that conclusion based on them -  I know I take it on pretty much every tanker and brute I make because it's a useful tool, and will use it frequently. I typically have plenty of other sources of AOE (and just damage in general) - if I felt my tanks (or brutes) needed yet more damage, I'd probably be talking about a specific set.

 

If you want taunt to do illusory damage for flavor or a concept, I'd say suggest it as an IO set.

 

 

[Rudra]

48 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

On paper it does sound good, but Taunt is skipped in many builds (your personal experience may vary) and only really used in League or pulling situations.  But most of this game is wading through endless seas of minions at a fast pace.

I offer nothing to give up in this situation because this isnt a 1960s board game where a potion gives and takes and the fact Taunt only hits 5 targets

I don't typically play Tankers, but every Tanker I've teamed with had Taunt and used it. In some cases, rather frequently. Either to corral enemies, pull them off my or my friends' butts, or to pull spawns out of heavily populated rooms so our ranged characters aren't eating spawn alphas trying to snipe lure spawns over to us. So from my experience, it is rather prolific. If you have hard data proving otherwise, please supply it. Otherwise your statement is purely anecdotal, just like my counter-point.

 

And from a game balance perspective, I don't see the OP being implemented without Taunt losing current features to compensate. I'm willing to bet that if the OP were to be implemented,  Taunt would no longer be auto-hit but instead get the base 75% chance to hit an equal level target, could be avoided by the target's psi' defense, cost 8-15 END, get a longer recharge, and would do the same damage modified by the target's psi resist regardless of what target it was used against. Which would make several players I know unhappy because they actually take and use Taunt.

 

(Edit: I'm probably back on your ignore list, so you aren't going to see this response, are you?)

Edited July 24, 2023 by Rudra

[honoroit]

while im not about to fetch them, many builds posted here on these forums remove taunt - favoring instead aggro forward attacking, and just body pulling w punchvoke, taunt aura, and whatever one can fling.

 

im inclined of this way.

 

combat teleport, or taunt? ill take the 3x hop skip.

 

i used to run taunt a lot, but 5 targets, a steamroll, and the fact it wont stick regardless of slotting if you are indeed herding to cap... means it is excluded.

 

 

and im probably the best tanker on homecoming, certainly excelsior, so Id know.

Edited July 24, 2023 by honoroit

[kelika2]

35 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Where are you getting the idea "Taunt is skipped in many builds?" Forum builds that are around to min/max? Farm builds? I wouldn't draw that conclusion based on them

That would be impossible to answer anyways due to the extreme amount of variables involved.  From the person, to what you are slotting for and what you have for Inf or the characters sets.  Then there is also the variable of people who play the game and actively use the forums.  from my experience in project1999, swgemu and wow, only a fraction of players actively use the forums.

But when page5 hit I been dropping taunts on brutes/scrappers for a defense mule.  And playing the game in mostly task forces I rarely see people actually taunt.  And even less times seeing it being useful since things die so fast.  Also page5s power selection cram in the 20s really made builds tight

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

The difference between taunt as is at target cap and taunt as changed by the OP at target cap? As is doesn't break soft mezzes, but the OP does. So the likelihood of loose mobs going after allies you don't want them to? Goes up.

Not to mention that it makes Sleep powers even more useless on teams than they are now (the 'throw in a big AoE as an opener; the tank will handle the aggro so I don't go down' crew) by making it impossible to sleep a large spawn, then whittle it down in chunks.

[Solarverse]

Edit: I think enough has already been said. I retract my statement.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Solarverse

[Solarverse]

10 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

This is amusement, not anger.  If I were angry, there'd be a GM here in a fire truck (which is fun, too, because their sirens don't work and they have to stick their heads out the window and shout ME MAW ME MAW ME MAW).

 

It does not say "me maw...."

 

It says, "HEE HAW HEE HAW HEE HAW HEE HAW" Don't even try me. I will cut you on this one.

 

 

[Luminara]

7 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

It does not say "me maw...."

 

It says, "HEE HAW HEE HAW HEE HAW HEE HAW" Don't even try me. I will cut you on this one.