Why so much Cold/Fire Resist/Defense? (Feedback)

[Solarverse]

First, let me say this is not a Suggestion, but rather Feedback.

Cold/Fire Damage Resist and Defense seem to be in my face on every single build I make. It's really hard to get around taking those, even when I don't need them. This especially becomes a problem if say you create a Fire or Ice Tank. It seems all of the best IO's are put in a way where there is simply no getting around these bonuses and the remaining options are subpar at best. I am perplexed as to why there is so much of this built in to IO's.

Not sure if this was intentional or if this was an oversight on the OG Devs part, but I find these two defense/resist being built in to all of these IO's to be problematic and a bit overkill.

 

That's my two cents on the Feedback. Take it from a grain of salt, since not everyone builds their characters the same way and not everyone plays the same type of powersets/AT's.

 

Is this something you all also struggle with when building characters, or do you find it to be more helpful as opposed to being a hindrance?  Curious how other players perceive this from their points of view.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Is this something you all also struggle with when building characters, or do you find it to be more helpful as opposed to being a hindrance?  Curious how other players perceive this from their points of view.

I personally haven't had any problems with this. Out of fire/cold resist set bonuses go, there is 1 set out of 8 resist damage sets that has a fire/cold set bonus, and it takes 5 of the enhancements to get.

 

Expanding beyond that, there are 56 sets including the improved versions and PvP only bonuses for the count, that grant fire/cold resist. There are 70 sets including the improved versions and PvP only bonuses for the count that grant smash/lethal resist. (As opposed to the 40 sets that grant energy/negative energy resist set bonuses.)

 

For fire/cold defense set bonuses, there are 58 sets including improved versions and PvP only bonuses that grant it as a set bonus. Smash/lethal defense sets that grant defense bonuses are only 52 however, including improved versions and PvP only bonuses. Which does seem a little odd to me.

 

I think fire and cold number just behind smashing and lethal damage for most common damage types, so the numbers seem about right to me. Though I admit I never gave it any thought before now.

 

Edit again: It should also be noted that those counts are inflated since I counted based on the set bonus, and some sets give multiple bonuses of differing values. If need be, I can go back and just count the sets themselves.

 

Edit yet again: Final tallies of just sets, not a count of the different bonuses, without regard to whether the bonus is PvP only or comes from an improved version of another set also in the list:

55 sets that grants fire/cold defense

51 sets that grant smash/lethal defense

56 sets that grant fire/cold resist

69 sets that grant smash/lethal resist

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to add "Expanding beyond that," and making it the start of a new paragraph.

[Chance Jackson]

It makes sense defense wise; if your going for defense bonuses each fire/cold prioritizing bonus is paired with half that ammount in AOE defense & vice versa. The winter sets specialize in fire/cold, with one set having both a 5% AOE bonus & a seperate 5% fire/cold bonus so if you get both bonuses you will have 7.5% to both AOE & fire/cold.

 

It just so happens some traditional purple sets give a bit of fire & cold resistance 

 

For what it's worth: i find it more helpful than not i guess

[FupDup]

I wouldn't mind it as much if fire and cold damage were more common among NPCs so that the set bonuses had more value. As it is, cold is the most rare damage type in the game and fire is sorta uncommon. 

[Solarverse]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

 

I think fire and cold number just behind smashing and lethal damage for most common damage types, 

 

 

 

I had in my head that Energy/Negative was second most common and Fire/Cold was at the bottom of that list. Once you get passed low levels anyway.

[Solarverse]

On 8/3/2023 at 5:46 PM, FupDup said:

I wouldn't mind it as much if fire and cold damage were more common among NPCs so that the set bonuses had more value. As it is, cold is the most rare damage type in the game and fire is sorta uncommon. 

 

That was what I thought as well. Which is the primary reason that I find all these set bonuses being fire/Cold based a bit of a workaround. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Solarverse

[Vanden]

It seems odd to consider easily being able to get a certain kind of set bonus a problem, per se. Odder still that you think it about Fire/Cold defense, which in my experience is fairly difficult to build for, outside of Winter sets. Naturally it's so common in the winter sets for thematic reasons.

 

As for resistance, I wouldn't really know. Defense is generally more valuable than resistance, and comes in larger amounts from set bonuses, so when trying to improve a character's survivability with set bonuses I basically just ignore the resist bonuses in favor of defense ones.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Vanden

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

I had in my head that Energy/Negative was second most common and Fire/Cold was at the bottom of that list. Once you get passed low levels anyway.

Maybe. Probably. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. I just remember fighting a lot of Behemoths in the Dark Astoria area, and in CoT missions late game, and even on Prateoria missions (as Praetorians, but are Behemoths). Also getting burned by Vortex Cor Leonis Fires and Marksmen including on ITFs, and even by BCU's from their energy grenades that DoT me with fire after they explode.

[Nerva]

Fire is pretty common. Off the top of my head, the Hellions, Minions of Igneus in the Hollows, Destroyers, and Fir Bolg in Croatoa, all have hefty contingents of Fire wielders. There's also the Legacy Chain's Lineage of Fire casters, and Tsoo Far Fires wield it too. Many bombs, grenades, rockets, and naturally flamethrowers and the like also deal fire damage, so you're liable to see it among Fifth Column, Council, Nemesis, Longbow, Malta, and other paramilitary types. as well as Praetorian Clockwork.

Cold is significantly rarer. There's very few groups that specialize in it, and only a few more that actually use it. The Winter Horde is naturally the main offender as you'd no doubt expect, but the Coralax, Tsoo, Crey, Malta, and Banished Pantheon all have users of Cold.

Outcasts, Circle of Thorns, Animus Arcana, and Crey Paragon Protectors, have wide selections of damage types and have specialists in both Fire and Cold attacks.

 

These are all I can think of just off the top of my head, there's liable to me more I'm missing.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Nerva
Forgot about the Tsoo and Minions of Igneus.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

 

seriously i agree with OP 100%,

more variety is needed

although i feel that more IO sets is a better option

instead of changing old sets values

[Biff Pow]

It is weird that most purple sets have a 6% Fire/Cold resist bonus but only three sets give 6% Energy/Negative resists (and they're AT-restricted, so you can only access one at most.)

[Solarverse]

12 hours ago, Supertanker said:

It is weird that most purple sets have a 6% Fire/Cold resist bonus but only three sets give 6% Energy/Negative resists (and they're AT-restricted, so you can only access one at most.)

 

That is actually what brought me here to discuss this. I was trying very hard to get my Energy/Negative Resists up on a Tank and I kept running in to the Fire/Cold brick wall.

[BrandX]

On 8/3/2023 at 1:20 PM, Solarverse said:

First, let me say this is not a Suggestion, but rather Feedback.

Cold/Fire Damage Resist and Defense seem to be in my face on every single build I make. It's really hard to get around taking those, even when I don't need them. This especially becomes a problem if say you create a Fire or Ice Tank. It seems all of the best IO's are put in a way where there is simply no getting around these bonuses and the remaining options are subpar at best. I am perplexed as to why there is so much of this built in to IO's.

Not sure if this was intentional or if this was an oversight on the OG Devs part, but I find these two defense/resist being built in to all of these IO's to be problematic and a bit overkill.

 

That's my two cents on the Feedback. Take it from a grain of salt, since not everyone builds their characters the same way and not everyone plays the same type of powersets/AT's.

 

Is this something you all also struggle with when building characters, or do you find it to be more helpful as opposed to being a hindrance?  Curious how other players perceive this from their points of view.

 

I figured it was intentional.  6% F/C Resist on Purples and Winter Event IOs...make players choose.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

 

I figured it was intentional.  6% F/C Resist on Purples and Winter Event IOs...make players choose.

 

meh, the only choice is how much you are willing to spend, since I use both usually.

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

meh, the only choice is how much you are willing to spend, since I use both usually.

 

I've never gone over the 5 rule with them, not sure on others.

[Arbegla]

From what I remember, the last time it was compiled (and this was Pre-Praetoria...) is that Lethal/Smash are the most common damage enemies can do, followed by Fire (most grenades, rockets, bombs, etc do Smashing AND Fire damage) with Energy/Neg/Psi/Toxic/Cold being less common depending on what you're fighting, but usually in that order (with energy being more common then neg, which is more common then psi, which is more common the toxic, which is more common then cold)

 

While some common enemies (Crey, Council, mid level CoT) have cold type powers, very few 'specialize' in it, like they do with Fire and Energy. I think the only enemy group in the whole game that uses pure cold powers are the Winter Horde, and those are only really available around the Holidays.

[General Idiot]

On 8/4/2023 at 9:34 AM, Chance Jackson said:

It just so happens some traditional purple sets give a bit of fire & cold resistance

This is pretty much it. All five winter sets have a 6% fire/cold resist bonus, so if you're building defense and using those for their sizable defense bonuses you end up with 30% fire/cold resist from those alone even before considering anything else in your build. And then most of the purple sets have that same 6% bonus so if you're building recharge and thus using purples for the 10% recharge bonuses you again end up with probably that same 30% just by default.

 

Compared to other resistances which tend to come in smaller 1.5% to 3% at most bonuses, it leads to builds often having disproportionate amounts of fire/cold resist no matter what you were actually building for.