Hamidon Origin Enhancements

[Vlardoom]

For some reason I never really got into Hamidon.

Are the various enhancements worth it now vs sets?

 

I would appreciate feed back on value and which ones or all and what types(dmg/acc etc)

Thank you Vlar

[SeraphimKensai]

In some circumstances yes but it all comes down to build goals and needs. You can often get more enhancement value from a HO, SHO, or DSO than with a set IO at the cost of it not giving progress towards a set bonus. Also some powers like Venomous Gas do -tohitdebuff and -defense, you can slot an Enzyme in it and cover tohitdebuff, defense debuff, and end reduction with 1 enhancement.

 

Some enhancements cover aspects of powers that set bonuses don't like the the DSync Provocation which is the only way to enhance accuracy and recharge with one slot.

Edited August 7, 2023 by SeraphimKensai

[Nemu]

A build with set bonuses that shoot toward a cohesive goal will be superior to a build with only HOs.

 

However HOs can be used to supplement a build to cover gaps in enhancement values. For example

 

 

The 2 winter IOs give me slow resistance which is the bonus I want but with 33% damage enhancement on each I'm at 66% damage enhancement and 33% acc enhancement. The Acc/DAM HO pushes those numbers into more acceptable values of 66% Acc enhancement and 95% Dam enhancement.

 

The more useful HOs are Acc/Dam, End/Def/To hit, Recharge/Def/tohit, Dam/Recharge, End/Defdebuff/tohitdebuff. A lot of these serve as the best slotting for one slot wonder powers.

[srmalloy]

They can be better for more simplistic powers when you're squeezed for slots. For example, with a basic PBAoE heal, three Golgi Exposure (heal/end) gets you 99% enhancement to both healing and endurance in three slots; it would take more slots and some frankenslotting to get the same enhancement from IOs.

[Glacier Peak]

Another thing is to not fall victim to the chase for outright higher %'s - some attacks just aren't that damaging and no amount of damage increase % to the attack will make it so. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

HOs/DSOs are pretty much the quintessential examples of frankenslotting.  I use all kinds in EMD builds, particularly if I don’t really like any potential set bonuses.  Example:  I almost always slot Weave with a Lotg +tech and two cyto l53.

[FupDup]

I like using Cytoskeletons in powers like Tactics and Ribosomes in Tough (unless I need some KB protection, in which case I 3-slot Gladiator's Armor). Enzymes are good for powers like Darkest Night. I stockpiled a bunch of Golgis for healing toggles but never got around to using them. 

 

I would also like to use D-Sync Conduits on a lot of different powers (any endurance clicky) but they're usually pretty costly. There's also a huge need for damage/heal and heal/endmod...

[Snarky]

it really depends on the Hami-O.  There are Rech/Heal Hamis that came out with the Dr Aeon.  Those filled a spot in Invulnerability (Dull Pain) that traditionally got 3 rech/heal from various sets.  Two 53 Hamis there save a enhancement slot.  priceless, but spendy indeed.  those things are not cheap

[macskull]

Microfilaments are also nice if you don't plan on devoting extra slots to travel powers - a level 50 Micro gives you 33.3% to both travel speed and endurance reduction, while a level 50 travel/end IO only gives 26.5% to each. With boosters you can make that a 50+5 which gives 33.1%, but then again you can combine Hamis to level 53 and get 38.3%. It's all a matter of how much you're willing to spend per slot.

[A Cat]

In addition to what others have said, I'd recommend using Mids and comparing the actual difference in effect with a normal IO or something with the same effects if there is a replacement. I Gucci out some characters with 53 HO's but it is far from necessary in many cases. Most, possibly all cases for me personally, it is just perfectionism, as the marginal effect is extremely tiny compared to the marginal cost. So tiny as to definitely not be noticable. 

[SwitchFade]

If you min max your build, In 98% of cases IO slotting with optimal set bonuses will be superior to HOs.

 

For the 17 years I have used the various versions of mids, played and min maxed, I have found exactly zero cases where using HOs liberally is ever superior to IOs.

 

There are certain powers that gain in a vacuum, perhaps using 1 less slot, but if you were actually building to extremes, that slot would be used for the set bonus, so it's either a wash or a loss.

 

Even if it is a gain, the actual difference in almost all cases infinitesimal, in the order of .2 seconds faster recharge on one power, at the sacrifice of several defense %, for example.

 

Or 2 more damage on a power at the expense of resistance or recharge from a set bonus.

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

If you min max your build, In 98% of cases IO slotting with optimal set bonuses will be superior to HOs.

 

For the 17 years I have used the various versions of mids, played and min maxed, I have found exactly zero cases where using HOs liberally is ever superior to IOs.

 

There are certain powers that gain in a vacuum, perhaps using 1 less slot, but if you were actually building to extremes, that slot would be used for the set bonus, so it's either a wash or a loss.

 

Even if it is a gain, the actual difference in almost all cases infinitesimal, in the order of .2 seconds faster recharge on one power, at the sacrifice of several defense %, for example.

 

Or 2 more damage on a power at the expense of resistance or recharge from a set bonus.

This is truth.  In all my MiDs torturing every number for more more more only in Dull Pain have I found a benefit of Hami=Os.

 

The other place I use them is when I just have one slot (the default)  sometimes slapping a Hami in there is marginally better (and a lot more expensive)

 

[tidge]

As others have written: (level 50 and above) HO/DSyncs are most useful when a power is starved for slots(*1), and a HO/DSync offers combination of the attributes that a player wants to enhance.

 

Writing only for myself: I tend to go with HO/DSyncs that combine Accuracy or Endurance Reduction with some other attribue I want enhanced. It could be a Mez, Range, a Buff/Debuff, whatever. There are a small number of powers that (in my preference) that really benefit from other combinations  (e.g. Recharge) but Accuracy and Endurance Reduction are typically the big ones for me.(*2)

 

(*1) A player may not want to put (m)any slots in a power, or most of the slots are being taken by something else (like a %proc, or global) that isn't otherwise enhancing the power.

 

(*2) There are some combinations of attributes that don't have Hami-O/Dsync options such that a level 50+5 piece (or a Superior Winter piece) is a better choice (for me).

 

Here are a couple of oddball examples of powers (from different characters) that I really sweated over using (or not) HO/DSyncs:

 

Level 30:    Chrono Shift    <- Healing is less important than Recharge and Endurance saving, but Healing is not nothing!
 (A) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5

 

Level 35:    Dark Consumption    <- Recharge is vital, but Accuracy is needed for the %damage and the EndMod effect is kinda important
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5
 (*) D-Sync Conduit (EndMod/Recharge): Level 53
 (*) D-Sync Drain (EndMod/Accuracy): Level 53
 (*) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
 (*) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage

 

Final Note about my builds and choices: If a character has multiple ranged attacks, I will sometimes frankenslot to get the ranges roughly equivalent, especially for cones and single-targets. HO Centrioles and Dsync Guidances come into play in these builds.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Besides HOs, it's a fairly quick source of Emp and Reward Merits. Can't beat 10 minutes of raiding for 4 Empyrean and 80 Reward Merits.

[Glacier Peak]

D-Sync Origin enhancements have some niche versions that don't exist for Hamindon/Titan/Hydra Origin enhancements. 

 

I don't have a list of them, but they're out there!

[TalonBlue]

This biggest advantage for using lvl 53 Hami-O's or D-Syncs to get the most value out of enhancements with the fewest slots used on a power.

 

Tactics for example. One lvl 53 Cytoskeleton covers that power's To-Hit and Endurance Reduction values most efficiently, saving you from 2 or 3 slotting it.

 

2 lvl 53 Ribosomes covers any resistance power toggle like Tough or Dark Embrace.

 

Or the holy grail of 2 lvl 53 D-Sync Provocations, saves you 2 or even 3 enhancement slots on a power like Fulcrum Shift, where in the past you had to run like 2 Accuracy IO's, 2 Recharge IO's and maybe an End Reduction IO.

[Onlyasandwich]

33 minutes ago, TalonBlue said:

D-Sync Provocations

I remember being so excited for these, and snatched up quite a few for my kin and everyone who runs fold space.

 

Now they are like 600 million apiece just for the 50s. God forbid you lose one while combining. Yeesh! Wish I'd thought to dump more of my funds there 😀.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[SwitchFade]

4 hours ago, TalonBlue said:

This biggest advantage for using lvl 53 Hami-O's or D-Syncs to get the most value out of enhancements with the fewest slots used on a power.

 

Tactics for example. One lvl 53 Cytoskeleton covers that power's To-Hit and Endurance Reduction values most efficiently, saving you from 2 or 3 slotting it.

 

2 lvl 53 Ribosomes covers any resistance power toggle like Tough or Dark Embrace.

 

Or the holy grail of 2 lvl 53 D-Sync Provocations, saves you 2 or even 3 enhancement slots on a power like Fulcrum Shift, where in the past you had to run like 2 Accuracy IO's, 2 Recharge IO's and maybe an End Reduction IO.

While a slot or two may be saved on that individual power for those numbers in isolation, the set bonuses are now lost with a negative net benefit.

 

4 slotting tough for io bonuses is always better than 2-3 with HO

 

Fulcrum only needs recharge, any min maxed built has enough native acc from set bonuses to hit 5+ targets 100% of the time, even fighting +4s and any min maxed kin doesn't need end redux

 

Tactics slotting of 5-6 gives set bonuses from gaussian, which is a huge

 

As mentioned, in a vacuum a power may benefit, but a toon build will be less effective in almost all cases when min maxing with IO and set bonuses. The difference can be quite large for 1 slot "gain," costing recharge, defense, resistance, damage, accuracy, proc chances for health or end.

[Raikao]

9 hours ago, tidge said:

As others have written: (level 50 and above) HO/DSyncs are most useful when a power is starved for slots(*1), and a HO/DSync offers combination of the attributes that a player wants to enhance.

 

Writing only for myself: I tend to go with HO/DSyncs that combine Accuracy or Endurance Reduction with some other attribue I want enhanced. It could be a Mez, Range, a Buff/Debuff, whatever. There are a small number of powers that (in my preference) that really benefit from other combinations  (e.g. Recharge) but Accuracy and Endurance Reduction are typically the big ones for me.(*2)

 

(*1) A player may not want to put (m)any slots in a power, or most of the slots are being taken by something else (like a %proc, or global) that isn't otherwise enhancing the power.

 

(*2) There are some combinations of attributes that don't have Hami-O/Dsync options such that a level 50+5 piece (or a Superior Winter piece) is a better choice (for me).

 

Here are a couple of oddball examples of powers (from different characters) that I really sweated over using (or not) HO/DSyncs:

 

Level 30:    Chrono Shift    <- Healing is less important than Recharge and Endurance saving, but Healing is not nothing!
 (A) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5

 

Level 35:    Dark Consumption    <- Recharge is vital, but Accuracy is needed for the %damage and the EndMod effect is kinda important
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5
 (*) D-Sync Conduit (EndMod/Recharge): Level 53
 (*) D-Sync Drain (EndMod/Accuracy): Level 53
 (*) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
 (*) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage

 

Final Note about my builds and choices: If a character has multiple ranged attacks, I will sometimes frankenslot to get the ranges roughly equivalent, especially for cones and single-targets. HO Centrioles and Dsync Guidances come into play in these builds.

 

 

Could you go in depth about Chrono Shift? Why is your slotting better than three D-Sync Conduit? What am I missing here? You gain some healing but the EnduranceDiscount doesn't do anything does it? D-Sync gives EnduranceModification instead (and no increased healing).

 

The recharge bonus is very similar because of diminishing returns.

[Raikao]

7 hours ago, TalonBlue said:

This biggest advantage for using lvl 53 Hami-O's or D-Syncs to get the most value out of enhancements with the fewest slots used on a power.

 

Tactics for example. One lvl 53 Cytoskeleton covers that power's To-Hit and Endurance Reduction values most efficiently, saving you from 2 or 3 slotting it.

 

2 lvl 53 Ribosomes covers any resistance power toggle like Tough or Dark Embrace.

 

Or the holy grail of 2 lvl 53 D-Sync Provocations, saves you 2 or even 3 enhancement slots on a power like Fulcrum Shift, where in the past you had to run like 2 Accuracy IO's, 2 Recharge IO's and maybe an End Reduction IO.

 

But wouldn't you want to use two lvl 53 Cytoskeleton in Tactics? And add Gaussian: Chance for BuildUp? Still only 3 slots instead of 6 (and having wasted recharge%).

[tidge]

11 hours ago, tidge said:

Level 30:    Chrono Shift    <- Healing is less important than Recharge and Endurance saving, but Healing is not nothing!

 (A) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5

 

2 hours ago, Raikao said:

Could you go in depth about Chrono Shift? Why is your slotting better than three D-Sync Conduit? What am I missing here? You gain some healing but the EnduranceDiscount doesn't do anything does it? D-Sync gives EnduranceModification instead (and no increased healing).

 

The recharge bonus is very similar because of diminishing returns.

 

Dsync Conduits are Endurance Modification, not Endurance Reduction. IIRC Chrono Shift ignores enhancements for EndMod, so that portion would be wasted(*1). Also, I want Endurance Reduction more than I want Healing or +End, as explained below.

 

Specific to Chrono Shift (an auto-trigger power for me), it is the base 20-ish Endurance cost that puts it in my personal 'danger zone' of risking the blue bar being too empty to trigger (or forcing detoggles), so Endurance Reduction is important. The long base recharge (360+ seconds?) obviously demands Recharge slotting on top of whatever Global Recharge. In the case of HO/DS I was looking at three slots of 50+5 Endurance/Recharge, but the diminishing returns were such that turning one of them into Heal/End/Recharge was next to nothing (in terms of Endurance Discount or Recharge, so I slipped in the PVP's set with Heal, and can have the set's Recovery bonus be exempt from exemplar effects.

 

If the +Endurance portion of Chrono Shift were to be enhanceable, I might be tempted to use the last slot for Preventive Optimization EndMod/Endurance/Recharge at 50+5 although it is hard to give up the near-constant personal Recovery boost.

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Raikao said:

 

But wouldn't you want to use two lvl 53 Cytoskeleton in Tactics? And add Gaussian: Chance for BuildUp? Still only 3 slots instead of 6 (and having wasted recharge%).

 

My opinion: the Gaussian's %Build Up piece is generally less useful in a toggle (e.g. Tactics) than it is in an on-demand click(*1), unless the following applies:

• the character with Tactics is always playing with a LOT of teammates/henchmen/pets in range of Tactics
• the character has a decent damage scale, and is making attacks, such that the %Build Up is making meaningful contributions for the attacker.

Considering the above, taking teams out of the equation, the ATs I've found to benefit more from a Toggle %Build Up (as opposed to a click %Build Up) to be Crabberminds and (to a lesser extent) the ATs that have multiple persistent pets (like 3x Fire Imps). I do run Tactics w/ %Build Up on one of my MMs, but the MM damage scale is so bad I rationalize its inclusion (with a HO Cytoskeleton) only because that MM is constantly making attacks.

 

If playing a high-DPS AT on large teams/leagues, slotting the %Build Up in a toggle is a fine choice (if not already at the high end of the damage scale).

 

(*1) I often slot the Build Up powers with only a Recharge 50+5 and the Guassian's %Build Up. With typical global Recharge bonuses (and not counting primary/secondary powers that provide MOAR Recharge) that typically has the %Build Up at the ceiling of 90% and the power is usually available when I want it in an attack chain. I do like the 6-piece bonuses from Gaussian's too!

[Uun]

My preferred slotting for Chrono Shift is two 50+5 recharge IOs. When used with Power Boost (which you're presumably already using with Farsight), it more or less doubles the heal. I've never found the endurance cost of the power to be an issue, plus it grants 15% endurance, so you get most of the cost back immediately.

 

18 hours ago, Vlardoom said:

For some reason I never really got into Hamidon.

I also dislike Hami raids. You should be aware that HOs or their equivalent are available as a completion reward for the MLTF, LRSF, Aeon SF, Eden Trial and Abandoned Sewers Trial.

[Hedgefund2]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

IIRC Chrono Shift ignores enhancements for EndMod, so that portion would be wasted(*1). Also, I want Endurance Reduction more than I want Healing or +End, as explained below.

You are not RC (recalling correctly) here.  End Mod slotting in Chrono Shift definitely increases recovery for 30 seconds.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=defender_buff.time_manipulation.chrono_shift&at=defender

 

The 15% endurance boost is not enhanceable.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Hedgefund2

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Hedgefund2 said:

You are not RC (recalling correctly) here.  End Mod slotting in Chrono Shift definitely increases recovery for 30 seconds.

Confirmed. Not sure why Power Boost doesn't increase recovery, since endmod is one of the attributes it buffs.