Fire Blast for Sentenils, WHY? BLAZING BLAST NOT FIRE BLAST is the COrrect ATTACK

[Etched]

Fire Blast Blazing Blast as a Knock in it that would knock Recluse out of his panties. I don't mind however, unlike most powers you cannot slot a Knockback in it. It just don't make since to have a power that does that much knockback without being able to slot it with a KNOCK BACK set. 

 

It'd be happy with knock down if that is a good subsitute.

 

Honestly, it's a Sentenil. I want them to come to me not be knocked away.

 

@Etched 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Etched

[Rudra]

So how do you feel about Energy Blast on Sentinels then?

 

(Edit: Despite their reduced range and their armor secondaries, Sentinels are still ranged ATs. Gonna find a fair amount of KB built into multiple primaries. Also, I don't see any KB attacks in the Fire Blast set for Sentinels. So could you clarify please?)

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Rudra

[Psyonico]

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.fire_blast.blazing_blast&at=sentinel

 

Blazing blast has repel, which is why you can't slot knock back into it.

[FupDup]

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So how do you feel about Energy Blast on Sentinels then?

 

(Edit: Despite their reduced range and their armor secondaries, Sentinels are still ranged ATs. Gonna find a fair amount of KB built into multiple primaries. Also, I don't see any KB attacks in the Fire Blast set for Sentinels. So could you clarify please?)

 

Energy Blast is a set DESIGNED around KB. That is its identity. For other sets with some KB, those can all be turned off (or in some cases ignored because their knocks aren't that strong). Fire is the outlier here. Fire Blast is supposed to be a pure damage set with zero secondary effects besides damage. That is Fire's identity. 

 

As for Sents, the power in question is Blazing Blast: 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.fire_blast.blazing_blast&at=sentinel

 

Mag 3.323 KB, Mag 8 Repel. And it can't be turned off by slotting a KB/KD converter unlike Storm Blast's Jetstream which CAN be turned off using the Overwhelming Force proc (or just using the power inside Storm Cell). 

 

Ideally, Blazing Blast simply shouldn't have any effects besides damage because Fire isn't supposed to have any form of secondary effects whatsoever. Failing that, being able to turn it off using the Overwhelming Force proc would be an acceptable compromise. 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by FupDup

[Etched]

I know Energy has tons of knock back but that is why I didn't make a Energy. However, a Fire Blaster doesn't have knock back in any of the attacks. 

 

The equivalent power in Beam has a Stun.

 

@Etched

[Etched]

Sorry, I did mention the wrong attack. @FupDup has the correct one.

 

Thanks for the save.

 

@Etched

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, FupDup said:

As for Sents, the power in question is Blazing Blast: 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.fire_blast.blazing_blast&at=sentinel

 

Mag 3.323 KB, Mag 8 Repel. 

Thanks. The list/overview page on CoD didn't list any KB or Repel on any of the attacks.

[lemming]

Blazing Blast is a bit of an odd duck, but it's got some fun uses.   Single target Repel's can be pretty handy, especially when you can aim for a wall or such.  I did note I could easily knock my target out of range for followups. 😉

[Luminara]

All sentinel primaries have a damage-dealing single-target control.  Fire didn't, so the HC team created one.  The Repel is effective against a wider variety of foes due to the overall lack of Repel protection/resistance for critters, supplemented by a brief mag 4 Hold which shuts off toggles on just about anything short of an AV, and ending with a low mag KB, all of which work in concert to take an enemy out of the fight for several seconds.  It's a stronger control, even if it is soft control, than would otherwise be warranted for a sentinel power.  Personally, I prefer it to another bog standard Hold/Stun/Sleep.

[Greycat]

I've got to say, I keep forgetting that one has repel. It frequently catches me off guard when I hop back onto one of my Fire Blast sentinels.

 

I'm ... ehh... about it, honestly. There's really nothing about the power that says "this is going to do a repel."

 

But... it's there. *shrug*

[Saiyajinzoningen]

maybe we can change the repel to like 2 seconds of fear?

since fire already has a precedence with fear being a soft control?

[Outrider_01]

Substitute intangibility and the description is you wrap the target around in blazing hot flames (use a fire armor graphic) so hot you cannot approach it.  Man, that would be a kicker to play in a group.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

3 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

Substitute intangibility and the description is you wrap the target around in blazing hot flames (use a fire armor graphic) so hot you cannot approach it.  Man, that would be a kicker to play in a group.

so replace the power with ring of fire?

[Outrider_01]

28 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

so replace the power with ring of fire?

Maybe the choking animation from the fire control hold, but add a fire armor or thermal shield burning effect on top of it.  They can split graphics now like boots, so I don't think it would be too hard to add graphics to existing ones as long as its just a graphic on an animation.

[Solarverse]

A bit off topic here, but giving Fire Melee -Defense was just, huh? PB's have -defense, they don't have +DoT, so now we have Fire that has both? Fire was /powercreep as it was...now it gets -defense to boot?

 

Just mentioning this because as of late, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense either from a realistic standpoint or a balance standpoint. Can't say I am a fan.

[FupDup]

7 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

A bit off topic here, but giving Fire Melee -Defense was just, huh? PB's have -defense, they don't have +DoT, so now we have Fire that has both? Fire was /powercreep as it was...now it gets -defense to boot?

 

Just mentioning this because as of late, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense either from a realistic standpoint or a balance standpoint. Can't say I am a fan.

Fire Melee was legitimately underpowered, unlike Fire Blast which very much isn't. 

 

The -def thing was most likely done for the sake of pandering to the proc bomb meta (more procs to slot). Given that Fire Blast is the king of blasts without any -def, I don't think that Fire Melee needed it and could've/should've been made strong without it. 

[Solarverse]

28 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Fire Melee was legitimately underpowered, unlike Fire Blast which very much isn't. 

 

The -def thing was most likely done for the sake of pandering to the proc bomb meta (more procs to slot). Given that Fire Blast is the king of blasts without any -def, I don't think that Fire Melee needed it and could've/should've been made strong without it. 

 

That would have made perfect sense.

[Etched]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:35 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

maybe we can change the repel to like 2 seconds of fear?

since fire already has a precedence with fear being a soft control?

Could be a good idea but i'd rather have the Knock vs a Fear. The Knock can be handy when there are low lvl toons on the team that is takin to much aggro. I easily Knock the baddy out of range to help steal their aggro. A dead team mate equals less over all damage being done.

On 8/13/2023 at 8:36 AM, Outrider_01 said:

Substitute intangibility and the description is you wrap the target around in blazing hot flames (use a fire armor graphic) so hot you cannot approach it.  Man, that would be a kicker to play in a group.

That is a hard no. Sounds cool in your descript but life is to short to wait for the baddy to become tangible again. I have never been a fan even when playin a troller or fender.

 

Honestly, I don't mind the Knock and i'm quick to place a solid object behind so he don't go as far. My problem is you are unable to slot it with a knock hancer set.

 

On 8/13/2023 at 9:10 AM, Outrider_01 said:

Maybe the choking animation from the fire control hold, but add a fire armor or thermal shield burning effect on top of it.  They can split graphics now like boots, so I don't think it would be too hard to add graphics to existing ones as long as its just a graphic on an animation.

A hold would be great and I would definitly be behind that.

 

My main issue is players are unable to slot the powers secondary effects. If that is granted I'd be a happy rabbit.

 

The Knock has it advantages, it's just not the best attack when duoing with a melee toon.

 

Awesome suggestions and thank for them.  🙂

 

 

@Etched

[TheMoneyMaker]

Isn't Fire sets' identity a synergy damage bonus with more fire?  Nrg has KB, Rad has -DFF, and Fire gets more damage when it's Fire/Fire.

[WindDemon21]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:01 PM, Etched said:

Fire Blast has a Knock in it that would knock Recluse out of his panties. I don't mind however, unlike most powers you cannot slot a Knockback in it. It just don't make since to have a power that does that much knockback without being able to slot it with a KNOCK BACK set. 

 

It'd be happy with knock down if that is a good subsitute.

 

Honestly, it's a Sentenil. I want them to come to me not be knocked away.

 

@Etched 

It's not a knock, it's a repel. Which is utterly terrible IMO. It's the main reason I'll never do fire blast on a sentinel. Too damn annoying and that power is too key to the ST damage and proccing too.

 

Edit: Yes it would be 100000% better as a knockdown or even a knockback, rather than repel. God i hate repel in attacks meant for damage...

Edited August 15, 2023 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

6 hours ago, Solarverse said:

A bit off topic here, but giving Fire Melee -Defense was just, huh? PB's have -defense, they don't have +DoT, so now we have Fire that has both? Fire was /powercreep as it was...now it gets -defense to boot?

 

Just mentioning this because as of late, there are a lot of things that just don't make sense either from a realistic standpoint or a balance standpoint. Can't say I am a fan.

The -defense on fire melee was 100% specifically to nerf fire farming. The addition to melee for us was just a bonus no matter what they say. Fire melee ST was always fine enough, but was able to use the shortening of GFS (which they really need to do to GiS too), and the KD to cremate was kinda needed with the set having no mitigation. But the main thing they needed to do was change breath of fire to combustion. Still one of the dumbest things they ever did was revamp the set but didn't change that. 100% the reason i've done 3 fire melee scrappers and can't finish them cause the aoe is atrocious, which is absolutely dumb considering fire is supposed to be THE damage set. Utterly terrible...

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

It's not a knock, it's a repel. Which is utterly terrible IMO. It's the main reason I'll never do fire blast on a sentinel. Too damn annoying and that power is too key to the ST damage and proccing too.

Apparently it's both, plus a hold. Mag 4 hold for 0.61 seconds, Mag 3.323 KB after 0.6 seconds, and Mag 8 repel for 0.61 seconds.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.fire_blast.blazing_blast&at=sentinel

 

5 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

The -defense on fire melee was 100% specifically to nerf fire farming. The addition to melee for us was just a bonus no matter what they say. Fire melee ST was always fine enough, but was able to use the shortening of GFS (which they really need to do to GiS too), and the KD to cremate was kinda needed with the set having no mitigation. But the main thing they needed to do was change breath of fire to combustion. Still one of the dumbest things they ever did was revamp the set but didn't change that. 100% the reason i've done 3 fire melee scrappers and can't finish them cause the aoe is atrocious, which is absolutely dumb considering fire is supposed to be THE damage set. Utterly terrible...

I'm lost. How does adding a -DEF component nerf fire farming?

[arcane]

18 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

The -defense on fire melee was 100% specifically to nerf fire farming.

Well it failed completely if that were true.

[lemming]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm lost. How does adding a -DEF component nerf fire farming?

A lot of farms had a bunch of fire melee, so it "must" have been done vs farming.   Since farmers are fairly adaptive and could just change their farms, or just use other methods, I don't think that's the reason.   My bio/fire tank got a bit of a boost out of the deal.

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, lemming said:

A lot of farms had a bunch of fire melee, so it "must" have been done vs farming.   Since farmers are fairly adaptive and could just change their farms, or just use other methods, I don't think that's the reason.   My bio/fire tank got a bit of a boost out of the deal.

That still makes no sense. Was anything else changed or was just the -DEF component added? If they just added the -DEF component without nerfing anything, then that does nothing to nerf fire farming. Making it easier to hit targets does not nerf farming.