Focused Feedback: Arsenal Control

[psylum1]

Arsenal control really needs a way to play well with the AT inherents, or a good reason to not worry about the interaction and right now it has neither. 

 

 

[Rand0lk]

- Tranquillizer (would be excellent with vomit/choking effect instead of sleep, but I can leave it as is without too much drama)

- Cryo Freeze Ray (just move it here)

- Wide Area Web Grenade (copy/paste from Arachnos set adjusting the numbers as needed)

- Liquid Nitrogen

- Cloaking Device

- Smoke Canister

- Flash Bang

- Tear Gas

- Gun Drone (would be excellent to add some variety in attacks to make it less boring)

 

Few updates to make the set compelling, competitive and fun! C'mon devs! 🙏

Edited January 25 by Rand0lk

[Videra]

8 minutes ago, Rand0lk said:

- Tranquillizer (would be excellent with vomit/choking effect instead of sleep, but I can leave it as is without too much drama)

- Cryo Freeze Ray (just move it here)

- Web Envelope (copy/paste from mace patron pool adjusting the numbers as needed)

- Liquid Nitrogen

- Cloaking Device

- Smoke Canister

- Flash Bang

- Tear Gas

- Gun Drone (would be excellent to add some variety in attacks to make it less boring)

 

Few updates to make the set compelling, competitive and fun! C'mon devs! 🙏

Make sure to make that Wide Are Web Grenade, instead of Web Envelope. Web Envelope is the ST one.

[LittlestKnightNoah]

On 1/24/2024 at 2:56 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

The ST sleep is currently bugged and only applies sleep when damage misses. Already fixed internally.

Cool, thanks for clarifying

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

What's tragic about that, is control sets already struggle to really have a place in a team setting. I don't understand why the guys behind axe and energy melee are being so scared of making this set good.

I vouch for losing a bit the fear of making Doms too powerful. Right now they are still among the most difficult AT to play for most. 

I mean I never felt that such same fear was place on making tanks as stupidly powerful as they are now. 
I play WoW as well and I wish I had tanks in WoW as strong as the tanks of CoH. 

[@T3h Ish]

• Tranquilizer
  Please murder this for something else. I'd prefer Beanbag (Not a meme, I legitimately mean this.) to be honest, while sleeps can be nice, ST sleeps are generally, very meh. It would at the very least, stack with Flash Bang, or with itself and not break on damage.
• Sleep Grenade
  Basically needs to continue to work like Static Field does, but some secondary effects like -Recharge / -Defense would be appropriate.
• Cyro Freeze Ray
• Liquid Nitrogen
  Basically also needs to work like Static Field, but constantly reapply an immobilize much like Dimension Shift does.
• Cloaking Device
  Yes please, am happy with this, generally like to see things like this to differentiate them from other control sets.
• Smoke Canister
• Flash Bang
• Tear Gas
• Gun Drone - Battle Drones
  Basically, replace the model with the robot battle drones from the Robotic Lore, which seems more in line with a high-tech suppression. Maybe one does Surveillance / other support powers, while the second does damage and th'like, maybe has a cloak toggle while out of combat in trade for some resists.
  
  Need t'do more testing but just some small things.

The amount of placed patch powers could certainly be trimmed down, or auto-target execute at the target without the use of a bind or macro, while I understand this does take a bit of choice away, it would certainly make it run smoother for most of the player base.

The lack of a stackable immobilize, largely makes the control set work against itself, nor does it make use of either Containment or the Dominator inherent/active use, it makes it hard for targets to stay in the area of effects of the multiple patches or AoE effects in general, some enemies just functionally ignore the slow, War Wolves, AVs, etc.

Edited January 26 by @T3h Ish
Expanding reasoning.

[Marbing]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

What's tragic about that, is control sets already struggle to really have a place in a team setting. I don't understand why the guys behind axe and energy melee are being so scared of making this set good.

Its possible control gets fixed in the future so that it does have more of a place in a team setting, I am holding out hope. Its a dream of mine... one day control will be... set free...

Anyways, this set does need some love. Lets see what the next round of notes show has changed, but for now here is what I see:

1) The -dmg in Tear Gas should be moved to Sleep Grenade. If the target is held, the -dmg is useless, if they are not held... its just a 20 sec -dmg on a super long recharge, not really worth it. It would be more useful in Sleep Grenade.

2) Sleep Grenade needs a faster recharge if its going to maintain its place in the tier list as a level 1 pick. Or it needs to be swapped around with Cryo Freeze Ray. You could end up with quite a rough grind if you chose Sleep Grenade at level 1 on a Controller. Albeit a safe one, so there is that.

3) Liquid Nitrogen could have a check added to it for "when target is asleep apply immobilize instead". Not for long, just an intermittent immob for the duration of the patch. It already checks for sleep so that it doesn't wake them up. This would give the set a nice 1 2 combo and give it the immob it needs to help the set shine. If you don't move in a patch of liquid nitrogen, your feet may get stuck to the ground. So, from a logic perspective, it works. But I understand this would be a pretty large fundamental change to the set. This wasn't my idea, I saw it elsewhere and don't remember who posted it but I don't want to take credit for it. 

4) Smoke Can needs its confuse duration increased to be more reliable, its a power with so much potential that seems to fall flat it my testing on harder difficulty settings. It doesn't last quite long enough. Sometimes enemies will get confused and before they can attack their allies they are unconfused and attack me then get confused again only to become unconfused before their next attack and attack me again... Its quite a frustrating little loop they can get stuck in. 


Again, this is all from my testing and seeing others talk about it as well. I do understand that this is a micro level suggestion and there is a more macro picture to consider, especially with possible future changes down the line (I am not aware of any, to be clear, I just understand its common among development teams that there may be a roadmap we can't see). 

 

Anyways, that is my feedback on the set so far. 
 

[Psi-bolt]

18 minutes ago, Marbing said:

Its possible control gets fixed in the future so that it does have more of a place in a team setting, I am holding out hope. Its a dream of mine... one day control will be... set free...

 

I'm going to bring this around to a critique of Arsenal Control I promise, but a short digression.  I think control has a place in a team setting now, it's just that it's a place that is completely unnecessary in the vast majority of content because of the overall power level in the game.  

 

At its most basic, our characters are earning rewards by:

1. Beating up NPCs
2. Completing mission/zone objectives

Control helps with #1 via small amounts of damage, making it easier to apply damage from others (i.e. keeping them in place) and mitigating the NPCs ability to retaliate.  Control helps with #2 in a variety of ways.  On glowy missions, you can mez the enemies so that you can interact with objectives.  Taunting pets can distract, stealth powers can let you traverse missions/zones easier.  

 

Other ATs are SUBSTANTIALLY better at #1.  Who needs mitigation from control when you're neigh immortal?  Who needs to keep NPCs in place when they die to AoEs.  And the damage from most control powers is laughable.  As for #2, that's nice, but the assistance in doing mission objectives isn't that great compared to just killing everything around objectives.  Only very specific objectives (e.g. Hamidon mitos) which are built around control give control much of a role.

 

Bringing this back around to Arsenal Control.  While I don't think control sets have that much of a place in the current metagame, control has something else.  It's cool and fun.   And that's not to be underestimated in a game trying to replicate the feel of superpowered individuals.  Arsenal Control is pretty good on that point.  It's powers are interesting, but in my opinion probably aren't doing much to help with the two objectives above that can't be done much easier than sets like Fire Control.  

 

Ultimately, that's the issue I have with so many of the new sets that came later in the game.  They might look and feel cool, but they really aren't as good (and certainly not better) than existing sets at completing the objectives of the game.   But, as stated, since I feel the same way about control sets in general, I don't think Arsenal Control is particularly bad.  It's needs some help and tweaking here and there, but is otherwise OK.  

[Frosticus]

2 hours ago, Marbing said:

4) Smoke Can needs its confuse duration increased to be more reliable, its a power with so much potential that seems to fall flat it my testing on harder difficulty settings. It doesn't last quite long enough. Sometimes enemies will get confused and before they can attack their allies they are unconfused and attack me then get confused again only to become unconfused before their next attack and attack me again... Its quite a frustrating little loop they can get stuck in. 

Can you expand on the enhancement values you were using?

 

I saw similar behavior when the power was under-enhanced (same for +cons snapping in and out of the sleep nade) but wasn't having issues with ~70% confuse enhancement against regular lvl 54 minions/luts (+3 because of alpha level shift).

 

The secondary issue may be a lack of accuracy. The confuse is not auto hit afaik and patches don't benefit from global acc or tactics, just the acc slotting within the power. 

[LastHumanSoldier]

So been playing with Arse/Arse today and I came to thinking that this set doesn't have a Marquee power.

From a dominator lens, the control set is straight up terrible. 

 

Tranquilizer --  DOM?  YES, Single target sleep.  SKIP
Sleep Grenade -- DOM? NO. I won't repeat what others have said better about sleeps.

Cryo Freeze Ray -- DOM? YES, Standard ST hold. Nothing to add here.

Liquid Nitrogen -- DOM? NO. 

Cloaking Device -- Always nice to have extra defense.

Smoke Canister -- DOM? NO.  its meant to be used with Nitro I get it.  Just seems weak even at even con.

Flash Bang -- DOM? YES, Standard 90 Sec Soft control. Nothing to Add here.

Tear Gas -- DOM? YES, 4 Minute Hard, SKIP

Gun Drone -- Pets are always meh on Doms Imo.

 

As a dominator player this set has zero Marquee powers. Nothing that would entice me over the other frankly better sets that interact with my class mechanic. 

Addtionally the Pseudo pets don't seem to contribute to your building of Domination, though this is minor as its Perma dom builds all the way anyway.

 

 

 

[Heatstroke]

Im currently trying a Level 40 Dom Ars/Ars and only have a couple of things.. 

I wont beat the level 1 sleep into the ground. Thats already been discussed. I do have an issue with the Gun Drone clone. I just wish it had a different look or appearance or the pet was replaced with something else maybe like the IDF Battle Orb instead to have a different flavor. Maybe even as someone else suggested a clone of the Incarnate Robotic Drone Power.. or that Robot Pet you can get in the P2W shop that shoots lasers ( cause who doesnt like Lasers? ).. For a new set to just clone the Gun Drone to me seems kinda.. meh..

As far as the Assault Power set.. im sorry and maybe this is just my opinion.. for most gameplay and teams I have been on Trip Mine is kinda useless, if it was something that you could detonate when you choose, it might be more interesting. I would have greatly preferred a grenade type power ported over from the VEATS like Venom Grenade or Frag Grenade over Time Bomb.

thats my two cents.. 

[stryve]

To be clear, I was not very excited by Arsenal Control on the first pass through the patch notes.  But, after reading that Sleep Grenade is a long lasting patch that works like Static Field, I decided to give it a shot.  I haven't had as much time to test as I had planned this week, but I did manage to work my way up to level 10 doing regular missions on a Arse/Traps Controller.  Nothing from the P2W vendor, only using SOs, and nothing but Web Grenade from Traps so far.

 

Overall, I've found this to be a very safe toon.  Web Grenade from Traps helped a lot for Containment for the first few levels, I was able to bump my Notoriety to 0x3 without any major issues once I picked up Sleep Grenade, and Cryo Freeze Ray let me turn on Solo Bosses.  That said, I definitely wouldn't recommend the set for beginners.  Placement, target selection, and understanding the mechanics involved are pretty critical to success.  Binds/macros help a lot too.  Of course, that could be said for Controllers in general, but I think it's more pronounced here.

 

The range on Sleep Grenade let's me hit a group before they've noticed me (Cloaking Device make this even better, and helps if you need to run), which so far has put almost everything to sleep immediately.  From there, focus down targets until the group is finished, then repeat.  A single Recharge SO gets Sleep Grenade to just over 30 seconds recharge, combined with one Sleep SO most things get off maybe one attack before going back to sleep.  Initially Web Grenade was very useful to set up Containment and keep things from running out of the patch once woken, but once I had Cryo Freeze Ray I could just open with that.  Bosses of course are priority targets; cycle powers at them until something stacks enough to stick.  Of the enemies I've faced so far (Hellions, Skulls, Circle of Thorns, Lost, Council) the ones that have given the most trouble are Lost bosses and Council Marksmen:  both are resistant to Sleep, and both have Slows in their attacks.   Having an entire group wake up because Sleep Grenade took and extra 10-20 seconds to recharge is unpleasant.  Liquid Nitrogen works pretty well as a backup though, or just for things that didn't get caught in the first place.

 

At this point I could probably go to 0x4 or more without much trouble if I didn't risk running out of endurance in longer fights.  Controllers in general are low on damage, but even my Ice/Cold didn't feel quite this anemic early on.  Hopefully that will improve as I get more powers from both sets.

[MagicalAct]

12 hours ago, Seed22 said:

You DO know ice control did this first right? Right?!

No, didn't realize they had changed that. Nobody really takes Flash Freeze to make that much of a difference. 

[eqspeef]

Playing with this powerset tonight!

 

My main concern with this powerset is that I hope no new players choose it; they're going to be forced to take a sleep for their first power and quickly conclude that the local gods are very cruel. It seems likely that their bitter shades will haunt the help channel searching in vain for a use case for a sleep power in COH.   As an added barb, pretty much every other power in the powerset has a damage component.   If you didn't already think sleeps were useless and not in a fun way, this is the powerset that will convince you.  All that said, a penalty of 1 wasted power slot is not a big deal for a veteran player, so most of our playerbase won't mind.

 

About the toon:

I paired arsenal with poison secondary and psionic epic, didn't really think too hard about the build. I slotted it wrong and didn't fix it- so overall it was a somewhat random, poor job of building. I slotted it in the same price range as one of my regular toons (purples for all the 6-slots, lesser IOs for the rest). No accolades, no incarnates.  I got about what I'd expect from such a control-heavy controller, though it was considerably stronger than I expected.  No troubles locking down and soloing x8/+4 missions, very very slow dps. 🙂  Overall it was a fun trip into the land of a controller who is mostly just a controller (with a side order of debuffs).  Obviously switching to a different secondary could get you a different playstyle.

 

Overall, I found this toon to be hands down the most effective controller I've ever played for crowd control purposes, with some high quality debuffs thrown in to boot. On the down side, there's almost no DPS and very little buffs. Durability is probably low but it never got tested because the control is so strong.  There are two single target mezzes, two AE mezzes, a pre-nerf Bonfire with knockdown already built in, an exceptionally solid ranged AE disorient, and a crazy AE Confuse combo that is a minimum of mag5 all the time and has no downtime. Plus a bunch of really solid debuffs.  Just press some buttons, stuff will stop attacking. 😉

 

Observations on the new powerset:

 

- Smoke Canister:  I'll lead with the OP one. I only 2-slotted this as I expected a generic smoke grenade power. The -perception seemed to work like other smoke powers.  I may not have found this to be an overwhelmingly strong power if I didn't take the psi epic pool, but it's a mag5-mag6 AE confuse when you stand in smoke with with World of Confusion running. In general I was able to smoke a group, stand in the middle of it, and not touch any other buttons to kill them all at +4/x8.  Exceptionally strong combo there. You pay a heavy XP penalty for confusing everything when solo, but in a group you'd get the same control without the XP penalty.

- Liquid Nitrogen might be the new Bonfire. Stuff has serious trouble staying upright, and it's not hard to perma it.

- Cryo Freeze Ray worked fine. The effect is fun and clear as to what has happened to the target (I think it's the same one we already had for ice control).

- Tear gas: How many controllers have wished their AE control power was ranged?  More than one.  This particular controller needs it less than some others I could name, though.

- Flash bang: A button I probably won't press often, but it's nice to have one more control type in your pocket, and this power is a ranged AE with a solid duration disorient.

-Gun drone didn't die in +4/x8, which was an unexpected level of durability (though there was a LOT of controlling going on). It was good that it stayed up, because it was my only DPS power that ticked in the double digits. XD

- Gun Drone's summoning sound effect is loud gunfire, which does not coincide with any gunfire animations or any reason for it to be shooting. Small thing, sort of offputting.

- Gun Drone left me with mixed feelings overall. The pet looks neat, and it's fun to have a controller pet, and this one seems to actually be on my side (looking at you, fire imps).  On the other hand, its DPS is low, which is at odds with its appearance. (Please! Don't shoot me with the giant twin gatling guns for 19 damage!) It just seemed kind of out of place overall.

[WindDemon21]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:02 AM, psylum1 said:

A control set that doesn't interact well with containment or domination, but has no bonus to compensate. That's where it stands right now.

 

Exactly. On the troller aspect, swapping cloaking device for an aoe immobilize is a no brainer. Would still help out doms too, but in lieu of something different, I really like the idea of instead of the aoe immobilize the mechanical polyp type pseudopet that pulls enemies into it with it's tentacles via pull in like sing, and also would have a hefty slow/-fly and maybe -resistance or mag 3 fear to add more damage/control to the set with something like 60s rech/45s duration and 25ft radius and mag 2 "repel"/pull in,  perhaps?

 

This would easily identify the set more IMO and would just be plain cool. The slow, pull in, and -resistance would be more than a fair tradeoff IMO because it would actually work better with the patches while still letting enemies move around in it but generally not be able to leave the patches unless they have slow resistance like wolves (which god i hate but gotta have some balance)

 

That and fixing the terrible pet to actually do stuff would help to fix these woes on both troller and dom. Make it a beam version of the gun drone, Charged shot and lancer shot, and refractor beam. Maybe even disintegrate too. Would be cool having it start doing that and adding some -regen to the set that way too. Would also help make arsenal control more significant too.

 

Also, pretty sure they fixed static field in elec control to benefit from containment at some point right? If so, or even if not, I'm sure they could figure out how to transfer that over, outside of them fixing that to be a toggle that should happen, so maybe a better route to fixing it should occur. I think patches already can somehow get the controller overpower so there's gotta be a way.

 

Also, as i saw someone else say, YES! please change tranquilizer to beanbag! Would be so much better! Really though. Tranquilizer is terrible, and if avoiding the ST immobilize to be different, beanbag literally fits perfectly here. Or at least an alternate animation for flashbang to shoot out a bunch of beanbags at the mob to alleviate all the bright flash issues people are having.

[WindDemon21]

On 1/25/2024 at 1:42 PM, Marbing said:

1) The -dmg in Tear Gas should be moved to Sleep Grenade. If the target is held, the -dmg is useless, if they are not held... its just a 20 sec -dmg on a super long recharge, not really worth it. It would be more useful in Sleep Grenade.

TBH as mentioned prior, all sleeps should have this 20% -damage as an inherent effect OF sleeps, and they should be mag 4 as well. Either they break and it doesn't matter anyway, or they should do what they're supposed to do and let you set up your other stuff or incapacitate a far mob. Sleeps need these fixes.

[Cotys]

i havent really seen someone ask, why are they releasing new powersets when we have many many MANY sets that need a good look over/rework?

[WindDemon21]

8 minutes ago, Cotys said:

i havent really seen someone ask, why are they releasing new powersets when we have many many MANY sets that need a good look over/rework?

While I agree there are many powers that still need tweaks and updates, I think there are separate teams that do new stuff and fix old stuff so they are not the same. New stuff also helps keep the game alive so I'm for it.

 

Edit: when don't right*** lol

Edited January 26 by WindDemon21

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

TBH as mentioned prior, all sleeps should have this 20% -damage as an inherent effect OF sleeps, and they should be mag 4 as well. Either they break and it doesn't matter anyway, or they should do what they're supposed to do and let you set up your other stuff or incapacitate a far mob. Sleeps need these fixes.

I'm all for additional sleep buffs too, just to make the powers be better in general... but there's really no reason for this new Gun Control set to be a sleep set.  Arsenal Control is the set that is finally going to let people pair something thematically with Traps on a Controller (please don't respond with mechs using Elec Control), finally a real Natural pairing.  But Traps is a terrible set for synergizing with Sleeps and doesn't want Sleeps at all: Acid Mortar and Caltrops will just annihilate the effect.  Lots of people in this thread have suggested that the set needs an AoE Immob, but I keep trying to explain that it really doesn't need a Sleep to begin with.

 

There are other powers that could replace the Sleeps right now and we'd be in a good enough spot, not great, but good enough.  I'd unironically just take Beanbag and Wide Area Web Grenade wholesale in place of the existing T1 and T2.  Controllers are still getting shafted without a Mag4 single target CC that procs Containment for them though... which is the real value of the ST Immobilize powers letting them get to work with double dmg on Bosses after 1 click.

[WindDemon21]

54 minutes ago, ShinMagmus said:

I'm all for additional sleep buffs too, just to make the powers be better in general... but there's really no reason for this new Gun Control set to be a sleep set.  Arsenal Control is the set that is finally going to let people pair something thematically with Traps on a Controller (please don't respond with mechs using Elec Control), finally a real Natural pairing.  But Traps is a terrible set for synergizing with Sleeps and doesn't want Sleeps at all: Acid Mortar and Caltrops will just annihilate the effect.  Lots of people in this thread have suggested that the set needs an AoE Immob, but I keep trying to explain that it really doesn't need a Sleep to begin with.

 

There are other powers that could replace the Sleeps right now and we'd be in a good enough spot, not great, but good enough.  I'd unironically just take Beanbag and Wide Area Web Grenade wholesale in place of the existing T1 and T2.  Controllers are still getting shafted without a Mag4 single target CC that procs Containment for them though... which is the real value of the ST Immobilize powers letting them get to work with double dmg on Bosses after 1 click.

Right I wholly agree. Though this sleep is better than most at least it reprocs, personally I'd like to keep it in the set just to help start a mob fight and slot the heal proc which is really helpful even though it should still get the -damage and mag 4 treatment. I would much prefer to keep the aoe sleep, obviously moved to tier 3 for the ST hold to be at tier 2, and remove cloaking device. It's not a terrible power, but is wholly unnecessary and doesn't do that much, especially taking the spot of a control power that is desperately needed. There is a pool power stealth, and even the stealth IO and super speed, it's really just a super wasted power option here in this set and hardly adds anything. This is where either the aoe immobilize, or the pull-in slow/debuff/taunt field pet should go (could even proc immobilize as well for containment).

 

Regarding tranq again, if it was beanbag with actually good stats to stack, I think that also would be justified for the set for containment purposes, but regarding just making it a ST immobilize, across the board, ST immobilizes need VERY much fixed to have the dot damage occur within 4s not 9-10 seconds, and their cast times really should be 1s to make them actually worth their DPA as attacks as well.

[Indystruck]

Set just doesn't feel great. Can do +4/x8 but it's a bit of a slog (tried Arsenal/TA Controller and Arsenal/Arsenal dom) but, y'know. I'm not sure where the devs necessarily want Controllers and Doms to be, either? Should those classes be able to handle new Council at that level? Should they not? Is it okay for the average player to do this. or should it only be top-end players? 

 

The main thing I can say is it just feels like a grab bag of disjointed pieces. We can sleep but if we do we have a rapid fire chaingun waiting behind us to immediately light up anyone who dozes off. Also the -ToHit with +confuse, and, just... eh. I mean, a player can make it work, yeah, but, it doesn't feel great regardless.

[Videra]

Actually, I've said my piece about this set. It's a sleep/ground patch based set with no AOE Immob and it fundamentally doesn't work - to the point it doesn't even interact with dominate and containment. But someone earlier posted a sentiment I'm really curious about. We have several power-sets that are direly in need of improvement and the ones that are worst off, mechanically, are generally the ones that have been added by Homecoming.

Seismic Blast is extinct for a reason, Symphony Control is only used by /Fire dominator for a cozy, full ranged build. Even seeing use of Storm Blast - which is thus far HC's best added set - is rare. In the current state it's in, Arsenal Control is actively fighting itself. Why do we need this when there are other sets that are in similar states of disrepair?

Edited January 27 by Videra

[icesphere]

I am here to give my thoughts and feelings about arsenal control. To start, I want to go what I do like about the set. I do like the variety of the control options and I like how it can appeal to natural origin heroes/villains. I also do enjoy cryo freeze, liquid nitrogen and flashbang What I think can be improved: I think Smoke Canister's confuse time is a little short, or feels short, compared to its counterparts and I have no real immobilize to keep them in place.

 

What I think is a choice: The stealth toggle is something, idk how to feel about it. I like it, just seems like an odd choice is all.

 

What I do not enjoy: I really wish one of the powers could be swapped for an aoe immobilize to help keep enemies in place while I lay down more CC. I do like that I have lots of options of aoe mez, but would probably bring it together if I had a way to keep enemies in place with an immobilize aoe option.

 

The drone: It's fine imo.

[twozerofoxtrot]

This is how I've approached the set. It might not work for everyone.  I've done this on an Arse/Traps controller (the two seem to jive well) and an Arse/Arse Dom (brutally fought a power selection civil war). 

 

Tranq Dart: Skip. Even while working it's too much of an edge case pick even with the 3.5 mag sleep. IMO this is the #1 candidate for a swap with wide-area web nade.

 

Sleep Nade: Treated like Terrify and proc'd to high heaven. Reliable damage with unreliable control.

 

Ice Beam: Single target proc bomb.

 

Liquid Nitro: One slot wonder for recharge. These sorts of patches are autohit but with an 8% proc chance for the KD. 

 

Cloak: Great survivability tool and IO mule. Taken, slotted with Kismet and LotG bonus IOs, plus a some Shield Walls.

 

Smoke Can: Either skip or one slot with Contagious Confusion at 49. It has it's uses but just doesn't do enough to earn it's place while leveling. Has an inherently high accuracy value.

 

Flash Bang: Must take. Good power for set slotting. Energy Font synergies here.

 

Tear Gas: 4 slot basilisk if taken.

 

Gun Drone: The single tankiest pet in the game at 80% Res all. 4 slotted Expedient Reinforcement including the +Res bonus to get it to 90% Res all and some nice recharge for me. This pet carries the entire set by virtue of tanking stuff when everything falls apart.

 

------

 

Overall enjoyed the set but I'm sort of an unusual control set player, so I get why some people weigh its problems heavier than I did. 

 

 

Edited January 28 by twozerofoxtrot
Ignore all of the above. Patch 2 rendered much of it moot

[Cyclone Jack]

6 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

This is how I've approached the set. It might not work for everyone.  I've done this on an Arse/Traps controller (the two seem to jive well) and an Arse/Arse Dom (brutally fought a power selection civil war). 

 

Overall enjoyed the set but I'm sort of an unusual control set player, so I get why some people weigh its problems heavier than I did. 

Question, did you go through the tutorial with just the Sleep Grenade?  And if so, how was it? 

 

For Arsenal/Traps would you take Web Grenade or Caltrops alongside Sleep Grenade at level 1?