what is up with boss and higher running away all the time?

[MsSmart]

I thought there was something in game as mob "morale", that is when they get beat up, scared, they run away. I thought the minions would have lower morale and thus run away much easier in the absence of a superior than their superiors. But as you went up in ranks, their morale instead of being  higher seems to be the reverse in practice.

 

So as I did an ITF, and being a Roman history buff, I found so out of character that the Cimeroran traitor bosses, to just run as soon as they get hit; that is so totally uncharacteristic of the ancient roman army. In Greek lore Minotaurs and Cyclops were ill tempered beasts, and totally blood thirsty, so why are they running away all the time?

 

Same goes when I fight any group in the game, the minions are much much more braver and the higher the rank the more chicken they are, I think the game is executing morale backwards, can it get fixed?

 

Hugs

 

Sue

[Akisan]

Somewhat?  The mob "scatter" AI seems to be based on how fast their allies are defeated, as well as how much AoE damage the group is taking.  If I stick to ST attacks, they'll usually stand and fight, even if I'm one or two-shotting all of them.  On the flip side, I've found the enemies' fear of AoE is somewhat higher than it should probably be, as they'll often scatter after I use my 2nd cone attack (they'll scatter after the first if I hit the target cap).  That panic does seem take a little longer to set in for higher ranks (bosses usually only run after I use Rain of Arrows, and AV's almost never run), but if you're opening with strong AoEs, expect everything to scatter immediately. (especially Warwolves.  Sometimes they'll leave if they think you might use an AoE)

 

Of course, it's also possible that said bosses are leading by example, and it's how/why they got promoted - "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day"

[Rudra]

The flee mechanic factors in damage being done to the target, number of allies defeated, and whether or not they are being debuffed. Mobs will attempt to get out of debuff effects. If the debuff effect is attached to them, they keep moving to get out of it, so they run away. They also continue moving to get away from debuff effects until they are clear "enough", which too often causes them to run away. This is something many of us have complained about repeatedly. It doesn't matter what tier mob the mob is. It doesn't matter how fanatical the mob is supposed to be. I've watched full on AVs turn tail and run because I hit them with a Darkest Night. It is supposed to reflect the mobs fighting "smarter" instead of just continually standing in layered damage and debuff patches until they die.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

what's that rad debuff that makes any foe run like crazy?

[Rudra]

19 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

what's that rad debuff that makes any foe run like crazy?

Uhm... all of them? 😄

[Coyotedancer]

That mechanic exists to be annoying.

 

Especially given that the goons all get to jet off at top speed to the far side of nowhere while... players.... are... stuck... moving.... like.... snails... trapped... in... glue... traps... for... about... a... dog's.... age... unable to chase them down effectively. (No. Not all of us have ranged attacks, buster.)

 

I say tone down the "Run Away! Run Away!" 

Or either ditch the speed suppression on players, or make the goon's subject to it just like we are.

 

I'm tired of being in Sloth-mode while watching wolves and wing raiders and drones and Longbow Eagles and every second random Freak taking off like proverbial bats out of the Bad Place. And don't tell me that it adds "challenge". Extra annoyance isn't challenge. It's just annoyance. <_<

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Coyotedancer

[Captain Fabulous]

Yeah, I remember when the flee code was added. It was garbage then and it's garbage now. It basically triggers when critters take a ton of damage and aren't dealing much themselves. So if you have really high defense or you floor their tohit/accuracy, they're gonna run after a few misses, especially if their health is low.

This is different from the fear that was added about the same time to powers like Burn and Caltrops.

[Uun]

If you floor their endurance and shut off their recovery so they can't attack, ZOOM!

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Uun said:

If you floor their endurance and shut off their recovery so they can't attack, ZOOM!

I've never seen that happen. Not saying it doesn't, but do you have any other effects going on at the time too? (I often zero out enemies' END and keep them there with my electric characters. Haven't seen them run away because of that yet.)

[lemming]

21 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

I say tone down the "Run Away! Run Away!" 

Or either ditch the speed suppression on players, or make the goon's subject to it just like we are.

Making the mobs stuck to the same suppression to speed would be good.

[megaericzero]

Gotta love fighting an EB/AV and they decide now is the time for their morning jog at full Super Speed.

[Clave Dark 5]

This is why it's a good idea to at least have one longe range attack, like a Nem Staff if not more.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

This is why it's a good idea to at least have one longe range attack, like a Nem Staff if not more.

When my target runs away (particularly bosses, EBs, and AVs) because I placed a debuff on them, it doesn't matter if I hit them with my Blackwand followed by my Nemesis Staff followed by anything else. They just keep running. If anything, they seem to run faster, especially when the Nemesis Staff sends them flying away aiding their  retreat. (Edit: And that is regardless of whether I maintain the debuff or drop it to keep from aggroing anything extra.)

 

Edit: The run away mechanic definitely needs some tweaking. At the very least, like was mentioned earlier by others, mobs need to stop being able to run away so fast. It very much seems like they get faster when they run away without having any powers that would do so. Especially when they are stunned and stagger off at Sprint + Athletic Run speed without having either power. (Edit again: Particularly frustrating when they run staggered that fast out of Caltrops, Tar Patch, or any other slow power. Seriously, how the hell are those Hellions, Skulls, or Freakshow moving that fast when they get stunned and start from inside a slow patch?!)

Edited December 30, 2023 by Rudra

[tidge]

I too am often annoyed by the 'run away' mode... especially when the mission requires the defeat of a specific spawn, and members of that spawn run far enough away that they get lost/stuck and take forever to wander back, or occasionally go get mixed up with other spawns I don't want to engage with. This has been so long part of the game that I just accept it. at least Combat Teleport exists. If there is any element of this AI behavior that I don't like, it is that the enemies with a Teleport-away power (e.g. Tsoo Sorcerers, Rikti Headmen) will pretty much come right back to the spot they left... so it isn't as if the enemies that ran across the map have to casually stroll back to their spawn location... I just watched them sprint away!

 

One (paired) part of the 'run away' game that I continually, casually, curse the original developers for is:

• The original devs seemed to take a queer delight in giving the 'monstrous' form to mobiles with inherently high speed, as some sort of juvenile "gotcha"
• Those same mobiles are often super-resistant to slows and immobilizes, which are EXACTLY the types of powers that players should want to take to specifically deal with that annoying AI behavior for specific enemies.

I blame the second bullet point as the reason why I find it so hard to choose single-target immobilize powers, and I suspect it may be the reason some players avoid taking some of the less glitzy slow powers.

[ninja surprise]

It's super frustrating when travel suppression is combined with attack rooting, so I can't move while the mobs take off at top speed.

 

A somewhat extreme example: today I was hunting those Circle of Thorns demon chickens in King's Row with my level 50 Water dude. There was a spawn of 5 chickens on top of a building so I put a Whirlpool in the middle of them. Only one was caught in it because they were spread out, so the other 4 took off in different directions. It was a lot of work to chase them down one by one, wait for rooting and suppression to wear off, then chase down the next.

 

But the real hassle is in Boss Defeat missions, where you're clearing the last room and a couple dudes suddenly decide to get all their steps in before getting arrested and take off across the map so you can't finish the mission until they get tired and walk back.

[Ston]

The code will make enemies run after taking 10 ticks of damage in combat logs in a certain period of time (which I'm not sure of, might be 10 seconds?)

So if you hit a boss with an attack that has 5 ticks of DoT, 4 procs fire, and interface procs, they will run. You can test it with Freezing Touch (10 ticks of damage), it will make enemies run away nearly every time regardless of the damage dealt.

 

There are some exceptions in the code such as undead enemies which will never run. There are also other factors that will make enemies flee or fight at different rates. For example, enemies will run earlier if they've had their allies recently defeated near them.

 

Hope this system gets an improvement soon. The threshold for enemies fleeing is WAY too low for the amount of damage and effects flying around.

Edited January 2 by Ston

[Bionic_Flea]

I knew that DoTs were a reason critters ran away, but I never took the time to count how many!  Thanks for counting for me, Ston.

 

Another reason that critters get discouraged and run is the inability to damage you.  So high defense builds tend to have more runners than resist builds, although these days most high level characters are soft-capped to something, even if it starts with resist based armor, or no armor at all!

 

Behold! A true image of Ston:

Edited January 2 by Bionic_Flea