Questions about helping other players

[Gunnarr]

So the Wife (who has *always* played pure DPS in every game she's ever played) decided she wanted to try a support character. After checking to make sure she hadn't been replaced by some kind of alternate reality clone, I helped her make a new character. For various reasons, she ended up rolling up a Illusion/Ice controller, called Frostlight. This lets her have superior invisibility (so she can go anywhere to explore and look at things), some pets, a few buffs/debuffs, and still murder arrest bad guys. She can also fly now, which has led to some spectacular crash landings and comedic moments while she learns to hover blast things.

So far, she's enjoying it (Level 11-ish now), but she had a lot of questions that I realized I do not know the answer to - regarding 'helping random players' that she sees in game. So...

 

1. If she sees a hero getting the stuffing beaten out of him by a crowd of mobs, can she throw an ice shield on him to improve his resistances, without aggroing the mobs? What about a heal? (We assume that debuffing or damaging the mobs will generate aggro for her)

 

2. Does helping the random hero (without actually blasting the bad guys with an offensive power or debuff) screw up that hero's XP gain? What if she does debuff them, but doesn't actually damage them? (We assume that any mob we damage or KO will rob the hero of XP, so trying to avoid that).

 

3. A hero runs by with a crowd of mobs in pursuit...is it OK to ambush the mobs? She has done this by default, assuming that if a hero is running away from a crowd of angry mobs, they don't feel prepared to fight and win - and it triggers her Mom gene to apply violence to the bullies. [I explained that quite often, the Hero was the one who started the fight, but I got The Look so I stopped talking and got back to waffle stomping the mobs.]

 

4. A hero is standing near a big bunch of mobs, maybe about to do the Leroy Jenkins thing and rush them. Is it bad to drop buffs on him (ice shield, etc)? Will that mess up his XP gain? What about things that boost HP regen/End recovery and so forth?

 

There's more, but these are the big questions that came up during game play this weekend.

Any advice, etiquette, or general tips?

 

 

[Luminara]

Buffs and heals never reduce other player characters' XP and won't pull aggro off of the target.

 

As long as she doesn't deal damage, she's not depriving other players of XP with debuffs/controls, either.  Deceive will actually increase the potential amount of XP the stranger can gain, but it's probably better not to use it since Confuses aren't well understood by most players.

 

10 minutes ago, Gunnarr said:

3. A hero runs by with a crowd of mobs in pursuit...is it OK to ambush the mobs?

 

This, though, you might want to curb, at least until you're certain she's cognizant of the con system.  There are some missions which spawn open world ambushes, and those could be deep purple to her.  Being pancaked by a level 50 ambush squad in three seconds is a learning experience, but as Cryptic and Paragon discovered, not one that most people enjoy.

[High_Beam]

Drive By Heals!

[Oubliette_Red]

I'm all for drive by buffage. Do that often on my Kin or Emp.

 

Someone pulling a mob train after them, I'll check their health before I do anything and the level difference between them and the mob. If they are on their last gasp, I might step in and delay/ambush the mob. It could just as easily be that they are running a damaging toggle and passed a mob on the way to their destination, even low conning mobs will chase someone after that and they may choose to ignore them and keep running.

 

Someone pulling a Leroy Jenkins though, that can be a learning experience for said player, don't bite off more than you can chew through.

 

Edited February 13 by Oubliette_Red

[Gunnarr]

She learned to take notice of where the Police Drones are parked, and to run for one of them if it looks like we're going to get wiped. Now that she can fly she just heads for the upper atmosphere. We (lol) have learned that we can beat a couple of reds and oranges, but even one purple is too much.

Thanks for the answers everyone, she will be very happy to learn that she can be as 'helpful' as she wants as long as she doesn't do real HP damage.

[Snarky]

Everything you have asked is pretty much okay buff heal whatever. If someone is “pulling” mobs (rare,very rare in open world) then not okay to kill.  Most “heroes” racing away are going to be fine with an assist

 

Other than the name and redside connotation I am unsure why a Corruptor was not chosen. This is an S class archetype with high damage AND high buffs/heals/debuffs.  I have finally settled on one as my main after running Brutes forever and Blasters the last couple years.  Damned things are simply too good not to run. Giving up some damage to Blasters and some buffs/debuffs to Defenders and then taking what they get and combining it into a whirlwind of effectiveness 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Kill them all. The Lord shall know His own!

 

But I would also have to say that an Illusion troller is possibly not the best choice for someone who's never played anything other than DPS. It's not an awful choice and this game is relatively forgiving but there might be better options.

 

That said, if she's enjoying it, then it's all good

[Water]

Yes you can help a player when passing them with a buff or 2, just don't kill  (arrest) the mob (kill steal). It will not affect the other players XP.

 

I always drop a buff on a player if I am passing them and they are engaged in open world.

 

Just never attack or aggro the mob because it is likely more often than not that they want the fight for whatever reason.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I feel that anything outside, i.e., not in a mission instance, is fair game.  If someone is running away, I'd feel free to eliminate their pursuit and not think twice about it.  The ONLY exception would be if they were fighting an enemy group that they may be fighting for a mission (defeat xx circle of thorns) and that group is difficult to find in the particular zone you are in.  Example:  Carnies in Peregrine Island.  At level 11, that's probably not going to be the case, unless it's Lost in Kings Row.

 

I hate to bring this up, but kvetchers are gonna kvetch.  Some people really hate the visuals of some of the buffs, and the default armor from cold domination can be pretty ugly.  If The Wife is really concerned about not bugging anyone, she might want to go to a trainer or Icon and change the visuals for her buffs to something as inobtrusive as possible.  I've been yelled at in the past for not doing this, which is frankly madness, but I thought I would pass it on.

[Water]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

... the default armor from cold domination can be pretty ugly...

 

Yes it is. I change the default in character creation to a wire frame. Default ice is not a good look on a costume which a player has spent so much time and effort on.

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

1. If she sees a hero getting the stuffing beaten out of him by a crowd of mobs, can she throw an ice shield on him to improve his resistances, without aggroing the mobs? What about a heal? (We assume that debuffing or damaging the mobs will generate aggro for her)

 

As long as she is invisible or out of combat range, she can easily heal, shield or buff a character without getting involved in the combat.

I would say that this is a very heroic thing to do, but you will get the rando that gets a fly in their tights about getting a helping hand from a guardian angel.

 

20 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

2. Does helping the random hero (without actually blasting the bad guys with an offensive power or debuff) screw up that hero's XP gain? What if she does debuff them, but doesn't actually damage them? (We assume that any mob we damage or KO will rob the hero of XP, so trying to avoid that).

 

If it does damage, it will affect the other person's xp again. I can't remember what the changes are at this point, but, at one point, - if not on a team - whoever does the last hit point of damage on the enemy gets the full credit and rewards.

 

I think you can get away with debuffs but the debuffs may pull agro.

 

20 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

3. A hero runs by with a crowd of mobs in pursuit...is it OK to ambush the mobs? She has done this by default, assuming that if a hero is running away from a crowd of angry mobs, they don't feel prepared to fight and win - and it triggers her Mom gene to apply violence to the bullies. [I explained that quite often, the Hero was the one who started the fight, but I got The Look so I stopped talking and got back to waffle stomping the mobs.]

 

If the hero is low on XP, yeah. I would jump the mob.

If the hero has plenty of xp, they may be trying to lure some away from the pack. in this case, you could most probably get away doing something to the ones that are farthest away from the hero in question. They will still have the limited number to fight and you can always just weaken the ones that you are fighting so that they can take them out as able.

Sounds like she is trying to be heroic to me. I wouldn't knock that ... even though I had to convince a friend that - if they really wanted to run missions - they needed to stop trying to stop every purse snatching in Atlas Park. It didn't look like we were ever going to get to the mission door.

 

20 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

4. A hero is standing near a big bunch of mobs, maybe about to do the Leroy Jenkins thing and rush them. Is it bad to drop buffs on him (ice shield, etc)? Will that mess up his XP gain? What about things that boost HP regen/End recovery and so forth?

 

You can buff, shield, and heal another player all day and it won't influence their XP gain negatively.

With those things, they will be able to gain XP easier and be able to get away with more Leroy Jenkins behavior.

 

There are times when I'll just fly around looking for players to heal/shield in the open world. There aren't as many of them as there used to be.

 

20 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

Any advice, etiquette, or general tips?

 

Be a hero.

Help those in trouble and fight villany.

Don't fight someone else's foes. (but feel free to debuff them .... unless ...)

If someone complains because you help them, then leave them alone.

Team up! You teammate are always going to want your heals/buffs/shields.

 

Have limited time, but want to help!

Join or lead that DFB.

Join a DFB, DiB, Posi 1, Posi 2, Yin, or Summer Blockbuster (SBB) - all of these can generally be done in less than a hour.

The heals/buffs/shields would be appreciated in these and other team content.

[Clave Dark 5]

If I see something like that, I generally try and help them out with something passive like a heal or maybe an armor.  Even if they hate Ice, it goes away quickly enough.

[Perfidy]

First, let me just say I applaud her name selection! I like that name! 
Second, anecdotally, when I had first began playing this game, by chance, a friend and I had invited an illusion/ice controller to our little team, and I was amazed at the abilities, We went from mashing countless greens (too new to realize what a purple did!) to easily dispatching the npcs. So, I'm a fan of just about everything ice. 

As for how much assistance to dole out, that's probably going to give you several different answers. I recall clearly on an iTrial, someone told me to not give them an ice shield because it covered their costume, and that it was incumbent upon me to see the tailor to minimize the effects of same. Needless to say, I made sure they had an ice shield for the rest of the trial. 

I am also embarrassed to admit that I'm one of those people that don't want help on my characters when I'm solo. Now, there's no way for anyone to know this without asking, but if I get a buff, or the npc gets debuffed, then I'm really not sure where my character stands. I won't be real sure if I need to slot more for survivability, accuracy or damage, or whatever. The buffs and debuffs obscure the feedback I get from the encounter with the npcs. Granted, I know they mean well, but it's a little annoying. 

Now, a recent anecdote, just a week ago, I'd made a tank and was testing my limits. A level 20 had dropped a rain of fire on top of my herd and they died within seconds. I don't know if this player thought they were helping or hunting, but it irritated me enough to go to Echo:Galaxy and repeat the effort. To be fair, I was at half health, but I hadn't yet used any inspirations or my self-heal. So, you can take that how you wish. Perhaps most players would prefer the assistance. For me, thanks, but no. The only time I want buffs/heals/debuffs, etc, is when I'm on a team, after I learn my character's strengths and weaknesses. 

Now, it may just be my opinion, but if someone wants to genuinely be helpful, the best thing they can do is be an available teammate. A few days ago, I was forming a team for the Lady Grey TF. We had 7, but no melee. I was concerned that I might lose some of the other players while waiting for a melee to join. I joked we could always brawl/box the weakened yellow mitos, or, if someone had fold space, maybe we could port weakened Hamidon out of the goo. I still don't know if 7 players using brawl/boxing on a weakened yellow mito would work. Thankfully, someone switched and we got it done the traditional method. 

So, yeah, if you or your wife see folks looking for folks in the LFG and they've been looking for more than a couple of minutes, volunteer! That's probably the best way to help, in my opinion. 

[Gunnarr]

22 hours ago, Snarky said:

 

Other than the name and redside connotation I am unsure why a Corruptor was not chosen. This is an S class archetype with high damage AND high buffs/heals/debuffs.  I have finally settled on one as my main after running Brutes forever and Blasters the last couple years.  Damned things are simply too good not to run. Giving up some damage to Blasters and some buffs/debuffs to Defenders and then taking what they get and combining it into a whirlwind of effectiveness 

 

Well it started with her saying "I want to be stealthy so I can go around and look at everything and not get killed" (look up Stealth, see that only Hide/Stalker or Superior Invisibility/Illusion Control offer out of the box total stealth)....which led to "My first character is a melee person and it sucks having to chase everything down" (look for ranged attack options, Stalker is melee only so Illusion controller remains)...which led to "I want to be able to heal people (brief education on how CoH doesn't follow traditional Tank/DPS/Healer design) OK then I want to be able to heal buff whatever support people"...which led to a long look at various Controller secondaries "too ugly, too noisy, too complicated, too melee, not violent enough" and finally Cold because it has "wintery stuff and looks pretty nice". [long session in character creator fine tuning things like color of hair and ice effects...all her first choices for name were unavailable...Frost+Light powers = Frostlight"]

We are definitely not building her characters with optimization as a first priority. I can't tell you how many times we got as far as adjusting the colors for her powers, only to have her say (after rotating the model so you can see the power animation) things like "I don't like the way her butt looks, go back to the first screen" or "Can we go back and fix her thighs? She looks like she should be in a chicken costume instead of spandex."

I will definitely try to optimize whatever she picks, but how we end up there is an interesting process.

Me (thinking) "Well this gives her a decent ST attack chain, plus some animations she thinks are cool, I can hold aggro with my-"
Her: "Can I make their heads explode? That's a psychic power thing, right?"

[twozerofoxtrot]

Fun fact if anyone gives grief for being buffed: one can right click the icon on the buff bar and cancel it immediately. 

 

Sounds like you guys are having fun together. Enjoy the journey!

[Snarky]

54 minutes ago, Gunnarr said:

 

Well it started with her saying "I want to be stealthy so I can go around and look at everything and not get killed" (look up Stealth, see that only Hide/Stalker or Superior Invisibility/Illusion Control offer out of the box total stealth)....which led to "My first character is a melee person and it sucks having to chase everything down" (look for ranged attack options, Stalker is melee only so Illusion controller remains)...which led to "I want to be able to heal people (brief education on how CoH doesn't follow traditional Tank/DPS/Healer design) OK then I want to be able to heal buff whatever support people"...which led to a long look at various Controller secondaries "too ugly, too noisy, too complicated, too melee, not violent enough" and finally Cold because it has "wintery stuff and looks pretty nice". [long session in character creator fine tuning things like color of hair and ice effects...all her first choices for name were unavailable...Frost+Light powers = Frostlight"]

We are definitely not building her characters with optimization as a first priority. I can't tell you how many times we got as far as adjusting the colors for her powers, only to have her say (after rotating the model so you can see the power animation) things like "I don't like the way her butt looks, go back to the first screen" or "Can we go back and fix her thighs? She looks like she should be in a chicken costume instead of spandex."

I will definitely try to optimize whatever she picks, but how we end up there is an interesting process.

Me (thinking) "Well this gives her a decent ST attack chain, plus some animations she thinks are cool, I can hold aggro with my-"
Her: "Can I make their heads explode? That's a psychic power thing, right?"

Heh.  You should see my dark shiny new Ice/Dark Corr.  Dark secondary from Corr has a non suppressing 35.5' stealth.  Not invisible.  suppresses only when grabbing glowies, not in combat.  Then you drop a Celelerit+Stealth in default Sprint power. (min level req 12, suppresses in combat/glowies) STACKS.... 65.5' stealth = invisible except to (long list, such things as Rikti drones, Nemesis has one Lt, Rularuu eyeballs...all of which tell all their friends)  

 

This is effectively invisible for stealthing around the city and missions 97% time.  

 

Arctic Fog from Corr secondary also has non suppressed stealth toggle.  Not sure about others.  Ice/Cold Corr is one of the premier League toons. The Ice secondary has better debuffs than almost anything.  

Edited February 13 by Snarky

[Perfidy]

1 hour ago, Gunnarr said:

Her: "Can I make their heads explode? That's a psychic power thing, right?"

Quick, someone show this to the dev team. Maybe we can squeeze this in a future issue. It would be awesome!

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

not violent enough

 

6 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

Can I make their heads explode?

 

I like her.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

 

I like her.

And just wait till she figures out just how offensive almost any support build can get from range or melee in CoX

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

Me (thinking) "Well this gives her a decent ST attack chain, plus some animations she thinks are cool, I can hold aggro with my-"
Her: "Can I make their heads explode? That's a psychic power thing, right?"

 

[WuTang]

On 2/13/2024 at 3:16 AM, UltraAlt said:

There are times when I'll just fly around looking for players to heal/shield in the open world. There aren't as many of them as there used to be.

 

*raises hands waves arms wildy*

Me, me....right here....

 

Can't count how many times I've failed to tab every target in the mob before I rush into a boss or two, or a few looies.

Edited February 14 by WuTang

[WuTang]

16 hours ago, Gunnarr said:

 

Well it started with her saying "I want to be stealthy so I can go around and look at everything and not get killed" (look up Stealth, see that only Hide/Stalker or Superior Invisibility/Illusion Control offer out of the box total stealth)....which led to "My first character is a melee person and it sucks having to chase everything down" (look for ranged attack options, Stalker is melee only so Illusion controller remains)...which led to "I want to be able to heal people (brief education on how CoH doesn't follow traditional Tank/DPS/Healer design) OK then I want to be able to heal buff whatever support people"...which led to a long look at various Controller secondaries "too ugly, too noisy, too complicated, too melee, not violent enough" and finally Cold because it has "wintery stuff and looks pretty nice". [long session in character creator fine tuning things like color of hair and ice effects...all her first choices for name were unavailable...Frost+Light powers = Frostlight"]

We are definitely not building her characters with optimization as a first priority. I can't tell you how many times we got as far as adjusting the colors for her powers, only to have her say (after rotating the model so you can see the power animation) things like "I don't like the way her butt looks, go back to the first screen" or "Can we go back and fix her thighs? She looks like she should be in a chicken costume instead of spandex."

I will definitely try to optimize whatever she picks, but how we end up there is an interesting process.

Me (thinking) "Well this gives her a decent ST attack chain, plus some animations she thinks are cool, I can hold aggro with my-"
Her: "Can I make their heads explode? That's a psychic power thing, right?"

Dude....lol....she's a keeper. Enjoying this thread...

 

Concealment offers 100% Stealth at lvl 4, which is obtainable after about 10 mins of busting heads. Also, Ive learned to like Infiltration for melee. It offers, run, jump, and stealth that can be enhanced unlike the prestige stuff. Just a newb though, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

[Gunnarr]

Well...we made it to level 14.8 before she admitted that she wasn't having as much fun trying to be a support character - not butt-kicking DPS enough with her current toon. Maybe later when she has a lot more experience she might revisit Frostlight and try again, but she wanted more direct damage...so back to the drawing board. Her first toon was a Dual Blade/Nin brute but she was frustrated with no range attacks and it didn't get far. She tried support, ranged is more fun but (not violent enough).

So, on the ride home we discussed her favorite Marvel movie hero (Black Widow) and how to make a hero with similar style attacks and such. After some looking around, we built a Tech origin Blaster AT (range DPS+melee DPS=probably violent enough) Dual Pistols/Martial Combat/Electrical Mastery lets her shoot people, kick them, eventually stun them with electric shocks. A couple of pool powers along the way to round out her attacks (Air Superiority, Boxing), Tough/Weave for defenses, Stealth/Combat Jumping, and eventually Fly (rocket boots). She wants to try Jump Kick (to simulate BW's common takedown spin move) but I'll show her the animation on a throwaway toon before she decides. Not optimized at all, lol, totally a theme toon.

 

We did the Matthew Habashy arc and got some merits and beat the snot out of Hellions all over Atlas, while she cackled at the animations. Single shot from 'Pistols', whirling around with Empty Clips, the taser origin power (totally fits the theme), a Chuck Norris worthy spinning roundhouse kick, and a two handed knockdown punch with Air Superiority. Spent a little time to get all the exploration badges in Atlas and got more merits. She's much happier back doing DPS, so I rolled up a Dark/Time controller to accompany her (vaguely Doctor Strange inspired, but mostly because I liked the guides I have read about Time, and the Sorcery power pool). The whole spectrum of control/buff/debuff powers, with a grim magic flavor.

Not terribly original names "Jane Widow" and "Miskatonic Mage", but she's having more fun, and thats the goal.