The Philotic Knight's Buff Force Fields 1.0!

[Blackfeather]

10 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Just curious, what benefit does the current cage have over a comparable high mag (4 from controller containment/ 6+ from doms) hold?

Detention Field is very accurate, and inflicts a mag 7.45 Untouchable/Affect Self according to Mids (along with an 8.05 Immobilise). The fact that it's easily accessible compared to a Controller's Overpower mechanic, or a Dominator's Domination gives it additional reliability in my opinion.

 

I've had good success with it when used on problem enemies that are generally resistant to most forms of status effects, such as Singularity pets (which happily disappear once their summoner is defeated).

 

I'm not certain if this is the case, but I don't think there's any way of actually resisting Untouchable/Affect Self, outside of the regular changes in duration caused by discrepancies in level.

 

Basically, if you want something to be guaranteed to be out of the fight for a set period of time, accept no substitute.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Blackfeather
Added another reason.

[Blackfeather]

Summary of my own desired buffs to Detention Field (ordered by priority):

• Increase the magnitude of its effects to affect AVs
• Potential way to cancel effect early (by preference):
  1. Pop-up temporary power (similar to Mystic Flight's translocation)
  2. Activation of another power (targeted Force Bolt, Insulation/Deflection Shield)
  3. Change power to a toggle (like single target Dimension Shift, prefer not having a downtime though)
• Potentially reduced recharge (would be nice to have it perma out of the box, but good as it is)

The 'only affects self'/'untouchable'/'immobilized' status effects that the power inflicts would remain the same as is, to better enforce that its purpose is to 'detain for later' rather than 'hold and defeat'.

[Draeth Darkstar]

I love Force Fields conceptually, my main was a Force Fields Mastermind from the launch of CoV until sunset, but it's one of those sets where my honest feedback is, "Screw the cottage rule, this design needs to be taken back to the drawing board."

 

My honest wishlist:

• Force Bolt: Gains a -Res, -Def debuff and slow.
• Deflection Shield: Moved to Tier 1 for Masterminds. Effect changed to +Def (All), +Resist(Defense debuffs, slow, recharge reduction)
• Insulation Shield: Effect changed to +Resist (All damage types, -recovery, endurance drain).
• Dispersion Bubble: Defense buff magnitude increased to Time/Farsight level.
• Repulsion Field: Removed entirely. This set has two powers that both serve to do the exact same concept of a PBAoE knockback field and neither one of them works worth a damn right now.
  • New Power - Insulation Bubble: PBAoE +Absorb toggle, same size as Dispersion Bubble.
• Repulsion Bomb: Gains a -Res, -Def debuff and slow.
• Detention Field: Changed to Hold with extremely significant -Regen.
• Force Bubble: Size reduced to Dispersion Bubble radius, repel magnitude increased dramatically, endurance cost reduced dramatically.

This would return Force Fields to being the premiere damage prevention support set, give it potent single-target debuff potential and adequate AoE debuff potential, without altering the conceptual purpose of the set or most of its powers. It would still have no heal, no res, no offensive or utility buffs, markedly worse debuffs than the offensive support sets, and its one really unique utility would still be largely hated for group content due to the scatter, but every power would at least be worth considering to use and it would have one thing that it was outright better at than every other support set to compensate for its weaknesses, which is how it should be.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Draeth Darkstar

[Obus Form]

I support the Phalic Knight's suggestions

 

+1 internets to you, sir @The Philotic Knight

[Galaxy Brain]

Remember kids, always use a force field when you're entering a mission door

[Obus Form]

6 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Remember kids, always use a force field when you're entering a mission door

COH is the safest birth control

[Galaxy Brain]

My gf hates it when I get soft-capped

[Obus Form]

14 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

My gf hates it when I get soft-capped

But she loves it when I hit her hard cap 😉

[gameboy1234]

4 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Remember kids, always use a force field when you're entering a mission door

I think however they got rid of that little bug/exploit.

[_NOPE_]

1 hour ago, gameboy1234 said:

I think however they got rid of that little bug/exploit.

I thought that was innuendo...

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, The Philotic Knight said:

I thought that was innuendo...

Innuendo? Isn't that the name of an Italian gay bar?    😉

[@T3h Ish]

On 6/21/2019 at 2:30 PM, The Philotic Knight said:

Shamelessly inspired by Trickshooter's thread, I'd like to present my suggestions for buffing/changing my favorite set.

 

My experience is that of a Mainoholic. I've played almost nothing BUT FF/Elec for the better part of 6 YEARS, recreating my namesake on EVERY server (deleting and recreating multiple times on Freedom, Justice, Guardian, and Virtue after I got him to 50). All in all, I estimate that I've played Force Fields for at LEAST a THOUSAND levels (Ten-ish servers times 50 levels, times recreating on a few other servers several times over). So, I know this set INTIMATELY. I've played on teams, solo, task forces, trials, PuGs, Hami Raids... every possible situation... minus PvP. That's my experience. I like to think I'm qualified to speak on this.

 

Now, I know I've said in the past many MANY times that Force Fields is fine as-is... well it IS. It's FINE. But that's all that it is, it's fine. It's not overpowered, it's not amazing. It's... just.... fine. Well, do we want fine, or do we want our sets to be AMAZING and fun to play with? This is me admitting that my favorite set is in fact NOT perfect, and could use some... adjustments.

 

So here's what I suggest with these powers from the perspective of a Force Field Defender. I can't speak to the set under other ATs, so I'm assuming that the Defender also has a blast set that does 2/3rds the damage of a Blaster (minus Vigilance bonus). This is going with the design philosophy of "only make the bare minimum changes that require the least amount of work to accomplish". So, it'll be mostly number tweaking. I don't KNOW the actual numbers, so I won't be talking straight numbers, but rather relative numbers. And I made these decisions all based on "feel" and intuition, rather than any sort of min/maxing, because that's how I roll. These suggestions are COLOR CODED to match what I feel are the extent of the power changes.

 

• Personal Force Field - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. I love the new "can interact with things in the world, but it makes it suppressed but doesn't de-toggle". I don't know if SCoRE added this, or if it was added after I left in 2010, but it's AWESOME.
• Deflection Shield - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. I love the new "AoE" aspect to the power. I don't know if SCoRE added this, or if it was added after I left in 2010, but it's AWESOME.
• Force Bolt - This is a beautiful power for what it does, but I've found that at higher levels, there's less and less reason to use it, especially after I get Repulsion Field. So, let's make it more useful throughout the character's career. Ramp up the minuscule damage to that of a Tier 1 Blast power, and add a chance to disorient. Basically, I want this to become a "clone" of the "new" Repulsion Bomb, but single target and STILL does Knockback by default rather than Knockdown (someone can slot the KB>KD IO if they want to drop it down). Since it's a precision power, let's give it just a little more "oomph" and utility by upping it's power a bit and just a LITTLE bit more control to it. Force Field Defenders are NOT known for adding damage to a team... well, let's change that, just a little bit. Let's make this power useful in a standard attack chain, and it will also make it more useful for FF solo-ers.
• Insulation Shield - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. I love the new "AoE" aspect to the power. I don't know if SCoRE added this, or if it was added after I left in 2010, but it's AWESOME.
• Detention Field - The "glass dome of DOOM" needs to change the way it works. I think this is the most problematic ability of the set. Either take off the "intangibility" aspect entirely and just change the effect into a regular "hold" while keeping the glass dome animation, OR reduce the length of the effect to a quarter of what it is. Modern CoX teams move TOO quick for this power to be useful as-is on teams, as most teams have already obliterated the rest of the mobs well before it releases, and they end up sitting there frustrated waiting for it to lift. Also, bump up the Immobilize mag to make it a PERFECT immobilize that will root ANY mob all the way up to AV to the spot, if you don't want to make it a Hold, that is.
• Dispersion Bubble - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does.
• Repulsion Field - Drop the toggle endurance cost by half. Otherwise, don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. It can just be a bit pricey to keep up at all times. The fact that ranged attackers are not stopped by this power, and melee attackers can still usually get a swipe in before being knocked back makes this already a well balanced power. Let's just make it a bit cheaper to keep on at all times, with the other toggles this set has in it.
• Repulsion Bomb - Bump the damage to that of a Blaster Tier 3 Blast, or a Blaster Tier 1 AoE attack damage, like Fire Ball (minus the DoT of course). Let's make this feel like a BOMB. Since you get this at level 26, let's make the damage at LEAST as strong as the damage a Blaster would get from their level 12 power. Mobs should feel it, a bit. Otherwise, leave everything else alone, Castle left this in a good place, but I feel like Force Fields just needs a little more damage "oomph", and this would help, alot.
• Force Bubble - This one is simple, for a Force Field Defender. The effect is AWESOME. It's a truly Gandalf "you shall not PASS" power. It's just got two problems - it's not strong enough, and it's too damn big. Let's fix both. Reduce the size of the bubble to a quarter of what it is... to about half the size of Dispersion Field, and increase the MAG of the Repel effect by a factor of maybe... two? I don't know what number should be there, but this is the effect that I want NOTHING should be able to push through this bubble all the way up to the Defender EXCEPT an AV. Period. As the ultimate power in the set, it should feel POWERFUL. Thus, I think it should have a SUBSTANTIALLY smaller diameter, but have a stronger force/power to keep things OUT of that diameter.

 

And that, is how I would buff Force Fields. Make it a set that's more useful in more situations and is beyond fine, is amazing, just like many other sets out there, while NOT replacing any powers with new powers or animations, just tweaking some numbers. What say you... did I go too far? Not far enough? /JRanger? Please suggest your own changes in this thread if you wish. My one stipulation is this - please keep in my design philosophy and The Cottage Rule and DO NOT replace powers wholesale with newly constructed powers. This is CoX Force Fields. If you want it to be another set entirely, or to change almost everything about it, then make your own thread and suggest your own new set.

Looks good, but if I may make a few suggestions myself.

Force Bolt - +Absorb, Knockback, - Accepts Accurate Healing sets, , Damage Sets, Healing Sets, and Knockback sets.
Now able to target Allies, adds an Absorb to an ally or acts as normal against enemies, akin to Injection in the Medicine Power Pool. Def. need it's costs adjusted.

Detention Field - Slow Movement, Immobilize, -Recharge. - Accepts Slow Movement, Immobilization sets.
I really don't like how it currently functions, and wouldn't mind it being a temporary toggle, or a placed intangibility along the lines of Dimension Shift where players can still affect the enemies if they want by entering the area, via the expert control of the Force Fields.

Repulsion Bomb - +Absorb, Knockback, Disorient (Mag 2) - Accepts Accurate Healing sets, Healing sets, Damage sets, and Disorient sets.
Same concept as Force Bolt, except it gives a Targeted AoE absorb from it's target to allies / original ally, retaining it's KB / damage on foes regardless of target. Definitely needs it's costs adjusted.

Force Bubble - +Absorb, Slow Movement, +All Resists (but Psi) -Fly, -Max Run, -Jump Height, -Max Jump - Accepts Healing Sets, Slow Movement Sets, Knockback Sets.
I wouldn't mind it being a toggle ticking +Absorb, Slow Movement, -Fly, -Jump Mag, -RunSpd for 10s after leaving the bubble, and +All Resist except Psi for allies in it's aura, since attacks would be substantially slowed down by the attacks and thus do less damage. in addition to it's KB, granted the Repel should go in my humble opinion.
Endurance Cost reduced to .45
Area reduced to 25ft.

Edited March 12, 2020 by @T3h Ish
Grammar, and some other suggestions and ideas.

[_NOPE_]

 

 

I think you're wanting the thread where the Cottage Rule is NOT in effect.

[Blackfeather]

I didn't have a whole discussion against the whole +Absorb thing just for it to be brought up again! 😝

[Galaxy Brain]

Make the FF attacks actually attack, and implement my KB damage changes and itll have a niche again

[Blackfeather]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Make the FF attacks actually attack, and implement my KB damage changes and itll have a niche again

Philotic's suggestions for a stronger Force Bolt/Repulsion Bomb, and having a system in place to add damage from Knockback would definitely be very nice. And of course, I do stand by Detention Field and Force Bubble having more finesse in their usage (able to cancel out the Field early and potentially affect even AVs, have Force Bubble shrinkable/expandable and act differently depending on its size - stronger repel/slow when smaller, opposite when larger).

[@T3h Ish]

17 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

I didn't have a whole discussion against the whole +Absorb thing just for it to be brought up again! 😝

Because it's a good idea, FF isn't that great of a set and it would dramatically increase it's utility outside of just bringing +Defense, a Mez Protection Toggle, some endurance heavy CC and a capture that isn't all that great in general practice.

Having force fields absorb and deflect damage seems reasonable, and fits within the set theme overall.

Edited March 13, 2020 by @T3h Ish
Grammar.

[greenbodice]

After a six month break, I’ve returned and started playing my Ill/FF again

 

Here is the simplest thing that would make FF more competitive:

 

* Make force-bolt damage equal to a blaster tier 1 blast. This is a huge bump, but would let FF contribute more to parties via damage (the most important thing in the game). Increase the end usage and recharge time to offset the damage increase. 

* Increase the repulsion bomb damage to be equal to a blaster AoE for similar reasons. Recharge and end usage are fine. 
 

ForceField can contribute more to a team, especially at end game, by doing more damage. This also makes FF more solo-friendly considering its deficit of debuffs and self-buffs. 
 

it’s a simple change. Can we make it happen?

[gameboy1234]

3 hours ago, greenbodice said:

it’s a simple change. Can we make it happen?

Whenever we have these discussions, I think the main thing people agree on is that Detention Field sucks and needs to be a click toggle so it can be shut off early, whenever the player wants.  I'm not against more damage, though I'm a little pressed to see how two damage powers are going to contribute much to a team (FF players get a whole other power set if they want that).  But those are the two main things people seem to want: damage and a change to DF, so sure.

 

Of course, development seems to be plugged up at the moment, so it's a serious open question that we'll get anything at all in the near future.  Not sure what the dev plans are for the future either, what has priority.

[Solarverse]

On 6/24/2019 at 5:12 PM, The Philotic Knight said:

 

 

❤️ Repulsion Field

This is one of the reasons why I felt PFF should either...

A: Be moved to the T9 slot and act as a T9 power by letting you attack while using PFF or...

B: Be changed to act as an Insulation Shield + Deflection Shield rolled in to one.

As a master of Force Fields, I feel like he hit you way more than he should have been able to and for more damage than he should have. The amount of times he hit you compared to his misses were jaw dropping....even for a pre-IO time period. The amount of damage he was doing to you looked like you barely had any resistance to his attacks at all. If not for your end drain, he would have had his way with you. If he had Repel/Knock Back Resist he would have had you for breakfast.

I'm interested in learning why you think the proposed change to PFF is something you view as a bad idea? Would you mind detailing that a bit for me? I personally think it would be a great addition to your ideas here, but I respect your input enough to hear you out on this.

[_NOPE_]

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

This is one of the reasons why I felt PFF should either...

A: Be moved to the T9 slot and act as a T9 power by letting you attack while using PFF or...

B: Be changed to act as an Insulation Shield + Deflection Shield rolled in to one.

As a master of Force Fields, I feel like he hit you way more than he should have been able to and for more damage than he should have. The amount of times he hit you compared to his misses were jaw dropping....even for a pre-IO time period. The amount of damage he was doing to you looked like you barely had any resistance to his attacks at all. If not for your end drain, he would have had his way with you. If he had Repel/Knock Back Resist he would have had you for breakfast.

I'm interested in learning why you think the proposed change to PFF is something you view as a bad idea? Would you mind detailing that a bit for me? I personally think it would be a great addition to your ideas here, but I respect your input enough to hear you out on this.

This is the "buff Force Fields" thread, someone else started a thread for if we were to rework FF from the ground up, Cottage Rule be damned. Here's what O said about that:

I'll get back to you more when I have more time.

[Blackfeather]

On 6/22/2019 at 4:30 AM, The Philotic Knight said:

Detention Field - The "glass dome of DOOM" needs to change the way it works. I think this is the most problematic ability of the set. Either take off the "intangibility" aspect entirely and just change the effect into a regular "hold" while keeping the glass dome animation, OR reduce the length of the effect to a quarter of what it is. Modern CoX teams move TOO quick for this power to be useful as-is on teams, as most teams have already obliterated the rest of the mobs well before it releases, and they end up sitting there frustrated waiting for it to lift. Also, bump up the Immobilize mag to make it a PERFECT immobilize that will root ANY mob all the way up to AV to the spot, if you don't want to make it a Hold, that is.

Building on some of my previous thoughts on the power, what if Detention Field could also target allies, with the caveat of still allowing them to move around? Basically it'd act as a "can't touch you, can't touch me" button to help save an ally's skin if they're at low health, or even a fun way of letting a team member take an alpha strike here and there. Kind of like Personal Force Field, but for allies, and even more absolute.

 

The main issue I'm seeing here would be its duration...but if there were a way to cancel it early, I'm sure it wouldn't be too bad. Maybe if they activate an offensive power after a few seconds of Detention Field being up, it automatically drops?

[oedipus_tex]

You could have Detention Field provide players with a proc that removes Detention Field if they use any offensive power. 

 

[greenbodice]

On 3/12/2020 at 5:34 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

Make the FF attacks actually attack, and implement my KB damage changes and itll have a niche again

It’s time to pass a wakie to this thread again!

 

Can we please buff FF to make it the “damage-dealing” defender set? Just scaling up Force Bolt and Repulsion Bomb would make FF more competitive, and it would follow the “least surprise” rule. 
 

I mean, I’d be even happier to hear “we are reviewing the whole power set”, but a little love is better than none. 

 

[Zeraphia]

On 4/5/2021 at 10:05 AM, greenbodice said:

It’s time to pass a wakie to this thread again!

 

Can we please buff FF to make it the “damage-dealing” defender set? Just scaling up Force Bolt and Repulsion Bomb would make FF more competitive, and it would follow the “least surprise” rule. 
 

I mean, I’d be even happier to hear “we are reviewing the whole power set”, but a little love is better than none. 

 

 Sorry, but to be quite honest...

 

No. I dislike almost the entirety of all the suggestions of this thread for just some simple reasons...

#1 This is a support set. This is not a control or a blast set. I don't see the purpose for turning TWO of the powers into blast set 2.0's, also it borderlines on being ridiculously overpowered for controllers. Hard no vote. At that point, you've nearly made another blast set. The only reason most people likely want it is to get some extra damage from their controller containment procs which isn't what the developers likely intended or would've intended to do for this set.

 

#2 This is a set that people have played and enjoyed, therefore I think it's wrong to take away Detention Field's aspect of possibly permanent intangibility if that IS what the player desires to do. They don't want a nerfed toggle version, I certainly wouldn't and I oppose this change. This is a part of "enjoyment" rather than functionality. Also, for lots of people, the T9 AoE repel is desirable for its massive size???

 

How about instead of trying to improve the damage of a support set, how about you improve its offensive amplifications.

 

Instead of improving the damage on Force Bolt how about it does a -20% damage resistance in addition to its regular effect?

 

How about instead of improving the damage of replusion bomb, you add in -20% resistance to that too? Or -def so that you can slot an Achilles in the power and get some juicy proc opportunities?

 

Maybe add +to hit on the AoE defense power or an interesting damage proc like Electric Affinity?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Zeraphia