The Bane of my existence

[Ukase]

For the first time - ever- in my lengthy time of playing CoH, I made a Soldier of Arachnos. In the early levels, it felt like a very weak, but sturdy blaster. Kind of like an AR/Shield Sentinel..if such a thing can exist in nature. 

When I made this character, the only reason to make it was to milk a silly joke that I stole from a member of Cosmic Council that I heard a few years ago. About the Tuatha having some secret affiliation with yogurt. Why else would they be called Tuatha De Dannon? Again, not my silly thought. Too bad. Would love to claim it. 

So, of course, the first thing I did was grab 10 Prismatics, head to the Benovolab vendor...and become disappointed. I couldn't resemble a Tuatha. But that's neither here nor there. 

Upon reaching 24, I had the instant respec and went the Bane route. I have done widow before and found it just putrid. If Kaizen Soze's Widows make music, mine were like fingernails on a chalkboard. I'm sure that has more to do with me and my playstyle than the powersets. 

This bane, however, has been surprisingly fantastic. In the low 30's the dps wasn't anything to be excited about. It played like a lower dps stalker/scrapper. But, once I got into the mid 30's and could put some more slots in some attacks, I am puzzled as to why I don't see more of these on pugs. While the journey isn't over yet - level 46 at the moment - this is really a fine character. The only thing I wish it had is a taunt of some kind. Plenty of AoE. A satisfying crunch that makes me think fondly of my Shield/Mace tank. And my mace/fire scrapper. A critical hit with the opening attack. A fantastic stealth. A number of toggles that don't require endurance? What's not to like? 

There are a lot of options to experience with this character. It feels so much more well-designed than the kheldians. While, still not quite as much fun for me as ice blasting, this character may very well find itself on my first page of characters replacing...something. Not sure yet. 

But I did want to encourage those of you, like me, for whatever your reasons, put off making an SoA, to do so. 
And wow. Arctic Breath. Not a fan of cones, but with damage procs, this is a heck of an attack. It may just be Frost from ice melee, renamed and reskinned. Seems like it. I'll be looking into Mako's patron pool a lot more after this. Hard to believe I've never even tried it out before. 

I know Troo has his internet dice for us to use if we aren't sure of what our next character will be, but I'd say at least try an SoA if you haven't already. It seems a lot sturdier than any of my scrappers or stalkers, which is odd for a set of armor that's only using a steadfast, a glad armor and an unbreakable guard unique in it. (and the numerous defensive toggles)

[Scarlet Shocker]

one of my all time favourite toons is my SoA; Huntsman Strauss (his name was a taunt to our CC Ghost Raptor at the time - if you know him or I you'll understand why.)

 

On my mandatory respec I took him centre path to be bog standard, avoiding Bane and Crab, essentially a hard as nails low level Arachnos goon - and he excels at that, delivering a sea of orange numbers  with some good controls and excellent mitigation. I've since made a crab that was entirely forgettable. The only thing Strauss is missing is a decent hold. I've solo'd IT on him and most of LGTF but was thwarted by the need to hold Mitos at weakened Hami but he is very good for tough content. Highly enjoyable and great to play solo or team.

[cranebump]

Being a fan of guns and such, I've played a couple SoA's. Never got one to 50. 

 

But there's a whole summer ahead...MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Groovy]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I know Troo has his internet dice for us to use if we aren't sure of what our next character will be, but I'd say at least try an SoA if you haven't already. It seems a lot sturdier than any of my scrappers or stalkers, which is odd for a set of armor that's only using a steadfast, a glad armor and an unbreakable guard unique in it. (and the numerous defensive toggles)

 

I wholeheartedly agree.  There is so much to love about a Bane.  Soft capped DEF to Melee and Range.  I can sit back and QUICKLY fire off a rotation of three (2 AOE +1 Cone) and then move in for some gratifyingly crunchy and hard hitting melee.   Superb Stealth with Crits.  Team Benefitting buffs and three -res debuffs. 

[Nemu]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

And wow. Arctic Breath. Not a fan of cones, but with damage procs, this is a heck of an attack

Join the bad breath brigade!

 

We are also accepting applications to the church of SPIN. Apply now while there are seats left!

[High_Beam]

7 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

On my mandatory respec I took him centre path to be bog standard, avoiding Bane and Crab, essentially a hard as nails low level Arachnos goon - and he excels at that, delivering a sea of orange numbers  with some good controls and excellent mitigation.

Same here.

[cranebump]

1 minute ago, High_Beam said:

Same here.

Same. 🙂 Though Bane sounds interesting. I’ve never been drawn to the Crab route.

Edited May 21 by cranebump

[High_Beam]

2 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Same. 🙂 Though Bane sounds interesting. I’ve never been drawn to the Crab route.

Yeah I looked at bane for a hot minute but despise the mace.  Avoided all of the Bane Spider Soldier powers as well as Web Cocoon and forget about the Mace Mastery pool.  I have a War Mace Brute for mace action 🙂

[cranebump]

26 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

Yeah I looked at bane for a hot minute but despise the mace.  Avoided all of the Bane Spider Soldier powers as well as Web Cocoon and forget about the Mace Mastery pool.  I have a War Mace Brute for mace action 🙂

I have been toying with the idea of picking up the mace powers on a trad toon through the patron pools. Maybe attaching it to a weapons-based character (like archery/ninja training maybe?). As with all of the power pools, though, I wish I could access them a lot sooner. By the time I get a character to the level where you can qualify for it, the powers almost always seem superfluous (and less useful than some of the others). I suppose I could do some selections and then do a re-spec to make the patron/Epic powers more central to my character’s schtick, but I just don’t know if it would be worth the time and effort.

[Ironblade]

On 5/21/2024 at 8:40 AM, Ukase said:

For the first time - ever- in my lengthy time of playing CoH, I made a Soldier of Arachnos. In the early levels, it felt like a very weak, but sturdy blaster. Kind of like an AR/Shield Sentinel..if such a thing can exist in nature. 

When I made this character, the only reason to make it was to milk a silly joke that I stole from a member of Cosmic Council that I heard a few years ago.

 

Yes, that was my reason for making a Soldier of Arachnos - silliness.

Mine was the irresponsible nephew of Lord Recluse and he had the back arms to resemble his uncle.  His name was Lord Footloose and he was dressed like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.

[mcdoogss]

Love my Huntsman build.  Its like an Arsenel sentinel from before sentinels existed.  Also with some decent pets.

 

venom grenade + arctic breath + bile spray + heavy burst + grenade is a pretty dope aoe rotation, all while having softcapped positional defense.  
 

i only wish i could get fortitude and serum without the crab backpack lol

Edited May 26 by mcdoogss

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, mcdoogss said:

venom grenade + arctic breath + bile spray + heavy burst + grenade is a pretty dope aoe rotation

a tip I read from one of Nemu's posts - proc that arctic breath. It's amazing all by itself. 

[Zhym]

I started up a Soldier of Arachnos based on this post.  So far, he's made it to level 22, so not yet a Bane, and...well, he dies.  A lot.  It's sort of becoming his thing.

 

Maybe things get better at 24, but 22 is painful.

[Techwright]

I've two SoA.  My first attempt went crab route and I was not liking it.  I tabled it in it's late 20s, in case I ever did figure a way to like it.

My second, Kriegsfeld, went the Bane route.  While it's not my favorite character to play, I did find it surprisingly better than I expected.

[Lusiphur Malache]

I made 2 SoA, 1 Bane and 1 Crab, they are remarkably similar.  Both use mace mastery and have pets.  Only real difference is that Bane starts close and stays close.  Crab starts at range and waits for you to get close.

[Zhym]

On 5/27/2024 at 2:25 AM, Zhym said:

I started up a Soldier of Arachnos based on this post.  So far, he's made it to level 22, so not yet a Bane, and...well, he dies.  A lot.  It's sort of becoming his thing.

 

Maybe things get better at 24, but 22 is painful.

Okay.  As they say these days: it gets better.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a character shift so much from tedious at level 23 to fun at level 24.

[GM Crumpet]

3 hours ago, Zhym said:

Okay.  As they say these days: it gets better.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a character shift so much from tedious at level 23 to fun at level 24.

In fairness, many characters die a lot early days then get awesome later on. I struggled with a plant dom and illusion controller to start, but with the right powers, more slots and some good sets suddenly I'm a lot more powerful than I had any right to be on paper.

[kelika2]

i kinda sorta skimmed the thread but most people who have bad experience with the epic archetypes are the people who spread themselves (slots and enhancements) too thin trying to branch out to all your options and becoming a jack of all, master at none

 

and not being a master at something is biting you in the ass as you read this.

 

If your ganna play a bane just think of yourself as a mace/reflex stalker.  forget the pets, forget the acc/tactics leaderships, put assault off until later.  and stop with that doublestacking leadership meme.  too many slots dedicated to that.  and the wolf aoes are stronger than bane aoes and since a recent patch you can use your mace for wolf attacks at the tailor

[Ukase]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:25 PM, Zhym said:

I started up a Soldier of Arachnos based on this post.  So far, he's made it to level 22, so not yet a Bane, and...well, he dies.  A lot.  It's sort of becoming his thing.

 

Maybe things get better at 24, but 22 is painful.

So, in the spirit of transparency, I suppose it depends on what you're doing, but I did ensure my character had the best it could afford - which because of an affinity for buying low and selling high, was as good as I could get. 
And I didn't raise the difficulty until 24. And even then it was just +1. But by 28, it was +2, and at 31 it was +3. I waited until 38, I think and found I could survive +4, but it took too long. But it was nice not to whiff like many of my characters do - with an ability to boost accuracy AND ToHit. 

The "immediate" respec, it was annoying, like every other respec. Mainly because of the timing. There was a TF I'd wanted to get in on, but I didn't want to run around untrained. 
Still, it was a lot of fun, the bane. 

[Zhym]

On 5/29/2024 at 9:46 PM, Ukase said:

So, in the spirit of transparency, I suppose it depends on what you're doing, but I did ensure my character had the best it could afford - which because of an affinity for buying low and selling high, was as good as I could get. 
And I didn't raise the difficulty until 24. And even then it was just +1. But by 28, it was +2, and at 31 it was +3. I waited until 38, I think and found I could survive +4, but it took too long. But it was nice not to whiff like many of my characters do - with an ability to boost accuracy AND ToHit. 

The "immediate" respec, it was annoying, like every other respec. Mainly because of the timing. There was a TF I'd wanted to get in on, but I didn't want to run around untrained. 
Still, it was a lot of fun, the bane. 

I tend not to start kitting out my characters until level 27, when the enhancement sets that scale to level 50 are available.  Plus, I try to make most of my characters self-supporting (more or less), which limits how much I'm able (well, okay, willing) to invest at early levels.  Until level 27, my characters have to get by on SOs.

 

In the case of my Arachnos Soldier, I started slotting with IO sets right after the level 24 respec, because as long as I had to reslot all those enhancements, why not?  So that could definitely be part of the drastic jump in fun level.

 

But I've had some characters who were fun from level 1 (hi, ninja blade stalker and DP/MC blaster!), and some characters who were weak at early levels and gradually got better as they leveled (and I started adding IO set enhancements), and a few characters who were so bad that they never got the chance to level to 24 (I'm looking at you, kinetic combat/regen brute), but I don't think I can remember a character that was painfully weak at level 22 and really quite fun, actually, at level 24.  And in the case of a SoA, I think it's because the character at level 24 is actually a completely different character than the one at level 22.

[Ukase]

Just anecdotally - to me, it's a strange thing to do a respec before 50. 

I don't understand why it's immediately required. But, they had their reasons. 

[Glacier Peak]

I haven't played a Bane beyond level four. I'm going to have to start one!

[Zhym]

@Ukase, what did you use for a build?  Based on this post, I made a Bane and leveled it through (some of) the red-side content.  I used builds from @KaizenSoze (here) and @Burnt Umber (here) as guides, but basically just did whatever I felt like—which meant it's far from the most efficient build ever.  For example, it has Cloaking Device and Stealth (for a stealth radius of 140 with the Celerity: Stealth slotted in Sprint), probably one or two more attack powers than it probably needs, both of the available pet powers (Summon Blaster and Call Reinforcements), and some of the attack powers are still slotted with cheap Uncommon enhancement sets (Thunderstrike, etc.), although it does have both Archetype sets, Hecatomb, and an Overwhelming Force set slotted.  

 

The result has been...not bad.  It's quite fun as a sort of stalker with ranged attacks.  But it's far from the strongest character I've played, and I don't know if that's because of the AT itself or just that I've built it poorly.  (I don't have MIDS, so I can't post the build short of typing it out by hand.)

 

I've considered respeccing to something more like @KaizenSoze's build, or just doing my usual and using incarnate abilities to make up for a sloppy build.  But I'm curious what your "surprisingly fantastic" build was, and whether you continued to like it in the upper levels when the enemies can start laying down the debuffs (and when some of the missions really benefit from having a top-tier AoE attack, which IMO the Bane really doesn't).

 

ETA: I went up typed up the build anyway.  If I did a respec, at the very least I'd probably drop the Mace pool powers and the Call Reinforcements power (it's kind of fun and on theme to have the arachnobots, but I don't get full pet control over them and they're really, really fragile) and take some Leadership and/or the Fighting pool powers to make him a bit tougher. But a respec is such a PITA...

 

Spoiler

Primary
Wide Area Web Grenade (6 Debilitative Action)
Venom Grenade (6 Superior Spider's Bite)

 

Bash (5 Kinetic Combat)
Mace Beam Blast (5 Overwhelming Force, 1 Foce Feedback +Recharge)
Pulverize (6 Superior Dominion of Arachnos)
Shatter (6 Hecatomb)
Build Up (1 Gaussian Chance for Buildup)
Placate (6 Mocking Beratement)
Crowd Control (6 Armageddon)

 

Secondary
Combat Training: Def (Sheld Wall: Def, Shield Wall: +Res(All), Reactive Scaling DR, Kismet +TH)
Wolf Spider Armor (3 Steadfast, incl. KB protection)
Tactical Training: Maneuvers (3 LOTG)
Mental Training (1 Running IO)
Tactical Training: Leadership (1 End/To-Hit/Def HamiO)
Tactical Training: Assault (1 End IO)
Call Reinforcements (3 Blood Mandate)
Combat Training: Offensive (1 Accuracy IO)

 

Bane Spider Armor Upgrade (4 Unbreakable Guard, 1 GladArmor +Def(All))
Cloaking Device (1 LOTR +Recharge)
Surveillance (1 Analyze Weakness)

 

Secondary
Stealth (1 LOTR +Recharge)

 

Mace Blast (5 Thuderstrike)
Shatter Armor (5 Crushing Impact)
Summon Blaster (3 Blood Mandate)

 

Inherent (of note)
Health (Miracle: + Recovery, Numina Regen/Recov, Preventive Med Absorb Proc, Panacea +HP/End)
Stamina (2 Performance Shifter, Power Transfer heal proc)

 

Edited July 2 by Zhym

[KaizenSoze]

22 minutes ago, Zhym said:

I've considered respeccing to something more like @KaizenSoze's build, or just doing my usual and using incarnate abilities to make up for a sloppy build.  But I'm curious what your "surprisingly fantastic" build was, and whether you continued to like it in the upper levels when the enemies can start laying down the debuffs (and when some of the missions really benefit from having a top-tier AoE attack, which IMO the Bane really doesn't).

 Glad you're enjoying my builds. I will point out that the Venom Nade is an amazing AOE. It just doesn't have the burst damage of a nuke. It's consistently my first or second most damaging power. Plus is makes everything hit harder.

[Zhym]

38 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

 Glad you're enjoying my builds. I will point out that the Venom Nade is an amazing AOE. It just doesn't have the burst damage of a nuke. It's consistently my first or second most damaging power. Plus is makes everything hit harder.

Oh, yeah., Venom Grenade is definitely great—I just wish I had a better followup once I've used it to soften up the enemies.  Mace Beam Blast is kind of disappointing in that regard.

 

My usual attack pattern for groups of mobs is Build Up > Surveillance (if one of the mobs looks tougher than the others) > Wide Area Web Grenade > Venom Grenade > Mace Beam Blast, then run into melee and clean up whatever's left.  It's very effective unless I'm up against a group of powerful mobs (like the Cyclopes and Minotaurs in that big Cimerora mission from the Dark Astoria arc).  For smaller groups or individual mobs, I'll just go full stalker, run up close, hit Build Up > Surveillance > Shatter, which is usually good enough to one-shot many mobs.  Then fire the Wide Area Web Grenade and cleanup.

 

It's definitely fun to play, but also more fragile than, say, my DP/MC blaster, who also does more damage both up close and at range and can do it to more mobs at once, and also has better defense and DR than my Bane has.  But then, comparing almost anything to that DP/MC blaster may not be fair. 🙂

Edited July 2 by Zhym