Enemy Damage

[lemming]

To be fair, he wasn't wanting the rewards in most of this.   He was just wanting to be able to buzz an AV and not get squished like a bug while he ran away.

[Ultimo]

  

Sigh, so many people putting words in my mouth.

 

I never said I wanted to win.  In fact, I specifically said I shouldn't win.  No one should be defeating AVs on their own.  All I said was that AVs and EBs shouldn't be defeating players before the players can do anything.  If my character has 800 health and Wretch does 400 damage with Hurl, the fight is over.  I can't stay to fight, because his next attack kills me, or I'm already dead, because I'm stunned and knocked down and not able to react to the next attack.  To be clear, AVs and EBs should definitely be doing significant damage.  It's just TOO significant at present.

On 8/27/2024 at 3:24 AM, MoonSheep said:

an AV - and some EBs - are a significant battle...

Well, they're supposed to be... but often aren't, because after one attack, the hero is either running away and there's no battle, or stunned and dead on the next attack.  I'll point out again that my Defender defeated by Hopkins had about as much defensively going on as was possible for him.  His Defense would have been at the cap, owing to Steamy Mist, Maneuvers, Combat Leaping, Hover, Weave and three purple inspirations, Hurricane would have debuffed Hopkins' Tohit, and his resistance would have been bolstered by Steamy Mist and Tough.  He still didn't last 2 seconds.  People keep saying there are ways to mitigate the damage, but the evidence of my own eyes says otherwise.

 

People keep calling up old threads, even OLD old threads now, that say some similar things, but rarely the same things.

 

The Defenders Balance thread was about Defender damage relative to other ATs, and had NOTHING to do with AVs or EBs.

The State of Invulnerability thread was about Invulnerability's suceptibility to debuffs, compared to defense sets, and had NOTHING to do with AVs or EBs.

The Damage Output thread was about Defender damage specifically, but was against an AE enemy, who was using powers NPC enemies don't have (which I didn't know).

The Game is Tedious was about Endurance costs, and had nothing to do with AVs or EBs.

The Calystix thread was about the AV pets doing excessive damage, which someone pointed out was due to them spawning as if the EB was an AV.  You may notice I also did take advice on the matter and did defeat Calystix.  However, it was a thread about that one particular EB, who was behaving in an abnormal way.

The Lex Luthor thread had nothing at all to do with damage.  I expect it's to show that I was using SOs.  That's normal when I plan builds, I never plan out the IOs because I don't have any, and am unlikely to be able to get them.  They're just too expensive, especially at lower level.  When a character gets to L50, THEN I consider the sets.  I have none at that level yet.  The Mids' plans are about power selections and timing of selections.  The slotting is more or less irrelevant.

 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 5:10 AM, Snarky said:

this whole thread is basically "i am a Defender and i want to solo AVs in TFs without help and with no tactics"

 

because if you had a tank, or anybody dealing with his agro..... problem solved.

 

if you did not choose to walk up and spit in his face, problem solved.

 

if you played as part of a team, problem...   nvm.  you will not listen.

 

 

Again, that's not what I said at all.  In fact, I said the opposite.  I said I shouldn't be soloing AVs.  What I did say is the AV shouldn't be taking me out before I have any chance to fight back.

Refer again to the Defender that took on Hopkins.  The reason I was in his face is because throughout the TF, I had been doing the tanking.  Teleporting in with Hurricane running would debuff the accuracy of the enemy, making it possible for me to get their attention and not get killed.  Except that Hopkins hit me once and that was all it took.  I was PART of a team, but was dead before anyone could do anything.  We had a healer, but that was irrelevant because I was dead before anyone could do anything.  There were damage dealers, but they were ranged attackers too, and weren't able to debuff enemy accuracy to survive.  So... ya.

 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 8:46 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

I will remind everyone that @Voltak did solo a +4/8 ITF with an Empathy Defender and posted a video of him doing it.

 

Obviously the game is not designed for anyone to solo content designed for 8 people, but with the right build and right person driving crazy things have happened.

 

I personally think if you're going to want to solo task forces you should have to use every reasonable resource at your disposal to be able to do so.

I never said I wanted to solo task forces.  I never said I wanted to solo AVs.  I think I should be able to solo an EB, though it should be a hard fight.

 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 7:59 AM, Luminara said:

 

SOs aren't why he has issues.  How he uses SOs is.  Historically, he hasn't used his slots or enhancements well (that's the nicest way i can say it), and his complaints and arguments are identical to those in the past, indicating that he's still not using slots or enhancements well.

I agree, going by the builds I posted, the slotting is pretty basic.  In essence, while leveling, I build as defensively as possible, maxing out my defenses as well as I can with SOs before worrying about increasing damage.  Even slotting expressly for durability, it's not enough.

 

But, here I am posting again late at night, reacting to barbs and misrepresentations of things I've said.  I shouldn't do it, but that's what the thread seems to be about now.  People talking about ME, and not about the subject.

 

As I said before, I'm going to remake the AE mission for testing.  Many times, things I've posted about were anecdotal, occurrences in battle, which made it difficult to know just what was going on.  Using the AE allows me to control the conditions.  The plan now will be to test a representative character of each AT against a representative AV.

Sigh, so many people putting words in my mouth.

 

I never said I wanted to win.  In fact, I specifically said I shouldn't win.  No one should be defeating AVs on their own.  All I said was that AVs and EBs shouldn't be defeating players before the players can do anything.  If my character has 800 health and Wretch does 400 damage with Hurl, the fight is over.  I can't stay to fight, because his next attack kills me, or I'm already dead, because I'm stunned and knocked down and not able to react to the next attack.  To be clear, AVs and EBs should definitely be doing significant damage.  It's just TOO significant at present.

On 8/27/2024 at 3:24 AM, MoonSheep said:

an AV - and some EBs - are a significant battle...

Well, they're supposed to be... but often aren't, because after one attack, the hero is either running away and there's no battle, or stunned and dead on the next attack.  I'll point out again that my Defender defeated by Hopkins had about as much defensively going on as was possible for him.  His Defense would have been at the cap, owing to Steamy Mist, Maneuvers, Combat Leaping, Hover, Weave and three purple inspirations, Hurricane would have debuffed Hopkins' Tohit, and his resistance would have been bolstered by Steamy Mist and Tough.  He still didn't last 2 seconds.  People keep saying there are ways to mitigate the damage, but the evidence of my own eyes says otherwise.

 

People keep calling up old threads, even OLD old threads now, that say some similar things, but rarely the same things.

 

The Defenders Balance thread was about Defender damage relative to other ATs, and had NOTHING to do with AVs or EBs.

The State of Invulnerability thread was about Invulnerability's suceptibility to debuffs, compared to defense sets, and had NOTHING to do with AVs or EBs.

The Damage Output thread was about Defender damage specifically, but was against an AE enemy, who was using powers NPC enemies don't have (which I didn't know).

The Game is Tedious was about Endurance costs, and had nothing to do with AVs or EBs.

The Calystix thread was about the AV pets doing excessive damage, which someone pointed out was due to them spawning as if the EB was an AV.  You may notice I also did take advice on the matter and did defeat Calystix.  However, it was a thread about that one particular EB, who was behaving in an abnormal way.

The Lex Luthor thread had nothing at all to do with damage.  I expect it's to show that I was using SOs.  That's normal when I plan builds, I never plan out the IOs because I don't have any, and am unlikely to be able to get them.  They're just too expensive, especially at lower level.  When a character gets to L50, THEN I consider the sets.  I have none at that level yet.  The Mids' plans are about power selections and timing of selections.  The slotting is more or less irrelevant.

 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 5:10 AM, Snarky said:

this whole thread is basically "i am a Defender and i want to solo AVs in TFs without help and with no tactics"

 

because if you had a tank, or anybody dealing with his agro..... problem solved.

 

if you did not choose to walk up and spit in his face, problem solved.

 

if you played as part of a team, problem...   nvm.  you will not listen.

 

 

Again, that's not what I said at all.  In fact, I said the opposite.  I said I shouldn't be soloing AVs.  What I did say is the AV shouldn't be taking me out before I have any chance to fight back.

Refer again to the Defender that took on Hopkins.  The reason I was in his face is because throughout the TF, I had been doing the tanking.  Teleporting in with Hurricane running would debuff the accuracy of the enemy, making it possible for me to get their attention and not get killed.  Except that Hopkins hit me once and that was all it took.  I was PART of a team, but was dead before anyone could do anything.  We had a healer, but that was irrelevant because I was dead before anyone could do anything.  There were damage dealers, but they were ranged attackers too, and weren't able to debuff enemy accuracy to survive.  So... ya.

 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 8:46 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

I will remind everyone that @Voltak did solo a +4/8 ITF with an Empathy Defender and posted a video of him doing it.

 

Obviously the game is not designed for anyone to solo content designed for 8 people, but with the right build and right person driving crazy things have happened.

 

I personally think if you're going to want to solo task forces you should have to use every reasonable resource at your disposal to be able to do so.

I never said I wanted to solo task forces.  I never said I wanted to solo AVs.  I think I should be able to solo an EB, though it should be a hard fight.

 

 

On 8/27/2024 at 7:59 AM, Luminara said:

 

SOs aren't why he has issues.  How he uses SOs is.  Historically, he hasn't used his slots or enhancements well (that's the nicest way i can say it), and his complaints and arguments are identical to those in the past, indicating that he's still not using slots or enhancements well.

I agree, going by the builds I posted, the slotting is pretty basic.  In essence, while leveling, I build as defensively as possible, maxing out my defenses as well as I can with SOs before worrying about increasing damage.  Even slotting expressly for durability, it's not enough.

 

On 8/27/2024 at 11:39 AM, PeregrineFalcon said:

You've been completely clear, we understand what you're asking for. You're not really asking for AVs to do less damage, you're asking for them to do that damage slower so that you have a chance to react. I get that. Here's the problem, this is already in the game.

 

If your Controller, or your Defender of your previous examples, stays out of melee range the incoming damage will be low enough that you'll have the time to react that you're asking for.

 

TL;DR: What you're asking for is ALREADY IN THE GAME.

My ranged characters usually DO stay out of melee range.  It makes no difference when the ranged attacks of the enemy do nearly as much damage as the melee attacks.  But, I'll be evaluating that in my next series of tests.  At the moment the only reference I have was my Controller being splattered by Hurl, which did almost 700 damage.  But, that was an AE character and isn't a fair test.  As I've mentioned above, the Defender often referred to had as much defense as possible, and it made no difference.

 

 

 

But, here I am posting again late at night, reacting to barbs and misrepresentations of things I've said.  I shouldn't do it, but that's what the thread seems to be about now.  People talking about ME, and not about the subject.

 

As I said before, I'm going to remake the AE mission for testing.  Many times, things I've posted about were anecdotal, occurrences in battle, which made it difficult to know just what was going on.  Using the AE allows me to control the conditions.  The plan now will be to test a representative character of each AT against a representative AV.

[Digirium]

You do you, Ultimo.

 

But don't go expecting the game to become softer, or fairer, or change however you think it needs to be changed in your opinion.

 

Keep in mind, this game like many other MMORPGs were made difficult to keep players subscribing. We are not subscribers now and we have the luxury to spend a lot of time learning how to overcome the challenges you have found and have described to us. And it sounded to me that you will learn and make improvements so keep at it, Ultimo.

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

  

Again, that's not what I said at all.  In fact, I said the opposite.  I said I shouldn't be soloing AVs.  What I did say is the AV shouldn't be taking me out before I have any chance to fight back.

Refer again to the Defender that took on Hopkins.  The reason I was in his face is because throughout the TF, I had been doing the tanking.  Teleporting in with Hurricane running would debuff the accuracy of the enemy, making it possible for me to get their attention and not get killed.  Except that Hopkins hit me once and that was all it took.  I was PART of a team, but was dead before anyone could do anything.  We had a healer, but that was irrelevant because I was dead before anyone could do anything.  There were damage dealers, but they were ranged attackers too, and weren't able to debuff enemy accuracy to survive.  So... ya.

 

And this is what happens when a Defender "Tanks"

 

Now you want the Devs to fix it so your Defender can Tank.  AVs here.  What next Incarnate content?  1star, 4 star?  How much do you want them to change so that your Defender can always be the first one into all the mobs and never die?  

[Maelwys]

5 hours ago, Ultimo said:

All I said was that AVs and EBs shouldn't be defeating players before the players can do anything.  If my character has 800 health and Wretch does 400 damage with Hurl, the fight is over.  I can't stay to fight, because his next attack kills me, or I'm already dead, because I'm stunned and knocked down and not able to react to the next attack.  To be clear, AVs and EBs should definitely be doing significant damage.  It's just TOO significant at present.

Well, they're supposed to be... but often aren't, because after one attack, the hero is either running away and there's no battle, or stunned and dead on the next attack.  I'll point out again that my Defender defeated by Hopkins had about as much defensively going on as was possible for him.  His Defense would have been at the cap, owing to Steamy Mist, Maneuvers, Combat Leaping, Hover, Weave and three purple inspirations, Hurricane would have debuffed Hopkins' Tohit, and his resistance would have been bolstered by Steamy Mist and Tough.  He still didn't last 2 seconds.  People keep saying there are ways to mitigate the damage, but the evidence of my own eyes says otherwise.

OK. Why do you think your Defender didn't "last two seconds" fighting Hopkins?

Hurricane is a -ToHit debuff. It inflicts 37.5% Base ToHit as a Defender.
Hopkins as an AV will have 85% resistance to ToHit Debuffs; before the Purple Patch scaling further reduces it. 
If Hopkins was +4 to you, Hurricane would have only been inflicting 37.5%*0.48*0.15 = 2.7% -ToHit to him (base, before enhancements)
So tagging them with Hurricane is effectively pointless.

Steamy Mist + Manuevers + Combat Jumping + Hover + Weave combined on a defender grant roughly 5+3.5+2.5+2.5+5 = 18.5% Defense (base, before enhancements) 
Three small purple inspirations will be granting an additional 12.5*3=37.5% Defense
18.5+37.5 = 56%, well beyond the Defense softcap even without slotting.
So your high Defense will be giving you good mitigation, but leaves you open to a string of "unlucky" hits.

Steamy Mist + Tough grants 20% to Fire/Cold/Energy resistance, and 15% to Smashing/Lethal resistance on a Defender (base, before enhancements)
Three-slotted with +Resist SOs that'll rise to around 1.6*20=32% Fire/Cold/Energy and 16.*15=24% to Smashing/Lethal.
So your Damage Resistance will be at best reducing Hopkins's major source form of damage output (energy damage) by ~32%.

- - - - - - - - - - -

"Bonesmasher" on an even-level Lv50 Hopkins AV inflicts 1434 points of energy damage (>2064 points if he's +4 to you)
So assuming a Level 50 Defender got hit with it (a very low chance if you're at the defence softcap as detailed above) then it should be doing a minimum of 1434*.68=975 HP of damage to them (even-level at level 50). Base Defender MaxHP at level 50 is 1017.4HP... so yes. It'd be quite possible to get two-shot by this plus any other attack that happens to land on you.

However if the same Defender was at the RESISTANCE hardcap (by popping +Res Inspirations or activating powers like Rune of Protection) then it'd only deal 1434*.25=358.5 HP of damage to them and be far more survivable... even without stuff like additional +MaxHP (Accolades and Set Bonuses and Unbreakable Guard unique IO) and +Absorb (Preventive Medicine unique IO) factoring in.

...and of course, had the same Defender simply stayed out of melee range of the AV (easy enough with Hover running on an outdoor map, or with sufficient levels of unsuppressed runspeed/jumpspeed/flyspeed and/or intelligent use of geometry for cover on an indoor map) then being hit by Bonesmasher would not even be a possibility in the first place.

In short - people aren't being snarky at you because you're trying to survive an AV's attacks for a while on a Defender. People are getting snarky at you because you're trying to survive an AV's attacks for a while on a Defender whilst remaining within melee range (where most damaging attacks can hit you) and without using all the tools at your disposal (additional survivability buffs and +Resistance and +Breakfree Insps, temporary powers, summonable pets, etc) and without outside assistance (as AVs are not fundamentally designed to be something that you can withstand, let alone beat, when soloing on a "squishy" AT).

None of the above should be new information to you, as many folks have offered their assistance previously... but it at least directly highlights the shortcomings with this particular approach to "facetanking hopkins" - even if you're at the defence cap, without putting more effort into mitigation then if AV Hopkins gets lucky you can and will get two-shot.
 

Edited August 30 by Maelwys

[Neiska]

This guy - “AVs hit too hard!”

Also this guy - “I don’t use IOs or sets because I can’t afford them.”

 

Has it not occurred to you that mayhaps you have reached the point where you need to actually plan a build and upgrade your enhancements? That perhaps one might have to *gasp* actually upgrade their build before engaging something with a name like “arch villain?” What?!? Why I never! How utterly preposterous! How dare the game get more challenging and engaging! 
 

Spoiler alert: No matter what build, AT, or powers, there will be a point when you will have to sit down and upgrade things, which might involve collecting and gathering resources like money to be able to progress further.

 

Shocking concept, I know. But we believe in you! You can do it!

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, Ultimo said:

People keep calling up old threads, even OLD old threads now, that say some similar things, but rarely the same things.

They say the same thing to us.  They say that you build in a manner that doesn't support the play style you want, slot in a manner that doesn't support the builds you create, and play those characters in a way that doesn't work for their builds and slotting.

 

When you complained about running out of endurance, people pointed out that not spamming Force Bolt to keep enemies out of melee range (on a build that had Hover, for Christ's sake) and using your other attacks instead of avoiding them or putting them off until the mid-20's would solve the problem.

 

When you complained about your damage being too low, people pointed out that not restricting yourself to your T1 attack would solve the problem.

 

When you complained about AV damage output, people pointed out that not deliberately closing to melee range of the AV would solve the problem.

 

When you complained that your solo builds can't solo, people pointed out that not dumping slots into PFF while leaving your attacks under-slotted would solve the problem.

 

Every post you've ever made to complain about the game has the same root, the way you build, slot and play.  Every one of the linked threads, and so many more that the forum software would reach out and slap me if I tried to link all of them, is because you refuse to build your characters

 

That's what all of those threads say to us.  That's what every post you make says to us.  You hamstring yourself in every way possible, blame the game for it, ignore advice, deny responsibility, manufacture scenarios, withhold and sometimes falsify information, argue when you're called out or corrected, refute the possibility that you could be wrong, disappear to sulk, then circle right back to the beginning and repeat the cycle again.  You're so determined to not be wrong, to not adapt, to not move one inch forward that you've spent two decades making one post over and over and over again.  The only thing that's changed is the timestamp.

 

5 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I never plan out the IOs because I don't have any, and am unlikely to be able to get them.  They're just too expensive, especially at lower level.

 

Bullshit.  I played my first 8 characters on Homecoming to 50 without seed, without teaming, without P2W buffs, without anything but the characters themselves, and every one of them was slotting IOs from level 7 onward.  And IOs are even cheaper now than they were five years ago, I know that for a fact because I engage heavily with the market.  Stuff that I used to sell for 3.5-5 million inf* isn't moving now, despite being listed at 2-2.5 million, and those are the "expensive" ones.  You can get lower-valued IOs for 100,000 or less, convert them and have everything you want, and still have piles of inf*, if you wanted to.

 

You don't use IOs for the same reason for the same reason you complain about the game being hard, because you refuse to change anything about the way you play.

 

5 hours ago, Ultimo said:

People talking about ME, and not about the subject.

 

Because you create the problems you have.  Addressing those problems necessitates addressing the root.

 

You.

[Without_Pause]

6 hours ago, Ultimo said:

  

No one should be defeating AVs on their own.

You mean the thing people have been doing since the early days of Live and even adding in soloing GMs? You are wishing for a game which doesn't exist.

[Without_Pause]

I can breathe on a level 50 and pull in millions in a single night of gaming. With little effort I can pull in 15-40 million in a day. The sheer amount of end game build IOs I can buy at 1-2 million right now is healthy. I get not using IOs if you don't want to slot IOs because you don't want to get involved with doing builds. I had billions across numerous characters on Live despite only using Common IOs. Saying IOs are too expensive makes me go 'You mean in this economy?' They've literally never been cheaper. And this coming from a long time player? (lights self on fire)

 

I made spreadsheet for all of my characters tracking if they have a final build, have they hit level 27 so they can start slotting for the end version of it, and how much currency they have on hand. I just glanced at it. I have at least 6* non-level 50 characters with 200+ mill sitting, and I only use IOs and sets where expected. I have literally never slotted a non-IO while on HC. Hell, I've taken two significant breaks across multiple hundreds of days after starting on HC. You could practically take nothing but currency, buy everything for a Level 50 build, and fill it with Level 35 Common IOs. Lets go on the high side and say that's 5-6 mill. 5-6 million isn't even cleaning out recipes post crafting and conversion from a single character. Run that build to T4 and you have enough currency to pimp out a second build. I'm pretty sure at this point I could do a number of builds in the area of 300 mill. That's a like a couple weekends of solid gaming at worst. 

 

* Four have 300+, 2 have 400+. Some of them have already been converted over post level 27. This says nothing about all of the IOs they have sitting in their trays to be placed as they level. At 27, I practically buy the rest of their build. I have a Level 33 who has four rows of IOs on hand for placement and conversion/selling. 

 

P.S. I haven't worked the market in a year plus partly due to not playing for most of it. All I do now is play, convert, and sell my drops, and yet I'm still doing fine. I'm literally counting down via spreadsheet to where all of my characters are covered.

[Skyhawke]

Hey boss, it's way too hard to dig that trench from point A to point B. Think you could shorten the trench so I can handle it?

 

-----Are you using the trenching machine? Did you follow the path set through the softer ground? The others don't seem to have this issue.

 

No, I'm using a gardening trowel and working through the rocky part. However, this ground shouldn't be destroying my trowel after 5 minutes of digging. That's not fun.

 

-----Hopkins, you're fired.

[Maelwys]

7 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I was using SOs.  That's normal when I plan builds, I never plan out the IOs because I don't have any, and am unlikely to be able to get them.  They're just too expensive, especially at lower level.  When a character gets to L50, THEN I consider the sets.  I have none at that level yet.  The Mids' plans are about power selections and timing of selections.  The slotting is more or less irrelevant.

There are any amount of threads along the lines of "how do you slot up a character?" and/or "how do you slot power xyz?".

Buying specific attuned "IOs with special effects" off the Auction House is comparatively inexpensive and ramps up the playability of a toon drastically. 
Personally I'll always slot attuned versions of the important procs/globals ASAP; particularly Panacea/Miracle/Celerity, plus a KB Protection for non-melee toons.

As to how to afford them...
Have you perchance gotten any 'Prismatic Aether Salvage' and/or 'Reward Merits' across your many sub-level-50 characters?
The former are a random drop after any door mission; and can be sold directly on the AH for millions apiece.
The latter are a guaranteed reward after completing story arcs (and collecting exploration badges, killing GMs, etc, etc.) and can be converted at the Merit ATMs into Enhancement Boosters or Enhancement Convertors, and THEN sold on the AH for very good money.
Either are a good source of income for anyone below level 50.
Running through the Freaklympics story arc in Ouroboros at minimal difficulty settings takes less than 30mins (only one of its eight missions is a "defeat all") and gives 57 Merits; so you should always be able to get a minimum of ~10million inf per hour as long as you're circa level 30ish; without any need to "farm AE missions" or "play the market".

[ZemX]

Pretty sure this is going in circles but it's also being made way more complicated than it needs to be. 

 

1. Purely on SOs, which is the supposed balance point around which this game is designed, I don't think it's ever been explicitly or implicitly promised that literally every AT, powerset, and level should be soloable in all content or even just in mission story arcs.  And I don't think it should be.   All of those missions STILL tell you to bring friends whenever they're about to throw an AV (or downgraded to EB) at you.

 

2. When we open the field up to IOs and Incarnates and everything else, there is clearly nothing in normal content that probably cannot be soloed by any AT or powerset combo, at least by somebody skilled enough and given enough time.

[JKCarrier]

It doesn't matter how much "testing" you do, Ultimo, because nobody (particularly the devs) agrees with your basic premise: That literally any character, no matter how poorly-built, poorly-slotted, and poorly-played, should be able to last a significant amount of time against an AV. That's just not a reasonable expectation. If you only want to put minimal effort into your characters, then the base game has tons of content that you can faceroll through. Have fun! But if you want to take on more challenging foes and missions, you have to be willing to put in some work.

 

There's an old saying that "Insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over again, and expecting different results". This applies both to fighting AVs, and posting in forums...

[Bionic_Flea]

Hmmm . . . that might make for an interesting challenge.  I think that I (and a bunch of other players) can take any AT and any combination of power-sets within that AT and stand toe to toe with an AV without dying.  Killing the AV is another thing altogether but I would guess that maybe half of them could do it . . . more if I had and used full T4 incarnate powers.

 

HIT ME WITH YOUR BEST SHOT!!  (Brought to you be the Society of Christian Karens)

 

Edited August 30 by Bionic_Flea

[Excraft]

13 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Refer again to the Defender that took on Hopkins.  The reason I was in his face is because throughout the TF, I had been doing the tanking.  Teleporting in with Hurricane running would debuff the accuracy of the enemy, making it possible for me to get their attention and not get killed.  Except that Hopkins hit me once and that was all it took. 

 

You're a Defender attempting to tank an AV.  Of course you're going to get annihilated.  Why would you expect any different result?  If Defenders have enough HP/Resists solo in order to survive multiple hits from an AV, the game is way out of balance.  

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, ZemX said:

Pretty sure this is going in circles but it's also being made way more complicated than it needs to be. 

 

1. Purely on SOs, which is the supposed balance point around which this game is designed, I don't think it's ever been explicitly or implicitly promised that literally every AT, powerset, and level should be soloable in all content or even just in mission story arcs.  And I don't think it should be.   All of those missions STILL tell you to bring friends whenever they're about to throw an AV (or downgraded to EB) at you.

 

2. When we open the field up to IOs and Incarnates and everything else, there is clearly nothing in normal content that probably cannot be soloed by any AT or powerset combo, at least by somebody skilled enough and given enough time.

it was going in circles.  then marine affinity got involved....

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

You're a Defender attempting to tank an AV.  Of course you're going to get annihilated.  Why would you expect any different result?  If Defenders have enough HP/Resists solo in order to survive multiple hits from an AV, the game is way out of balance.  

a few Defenders can solo AVs.  1) they know exactly what they are doing 2) they use very specific builds, powers, and inspiration strategies 3) they rarely post about it on the boards because when you are that good it seems natural to you, so why mention it....? 4) to be clear that will NEVER be me.  But at least I dont take an SO equipped Defender against an AV...

[Ukase]

A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion, still. - Dale Carnegie

[Videra]

My boy Ultimo really do be over here spouting nonsense as per usual. That he even uses single origin enhancements is mind boggling.

[Snarky]

22 minutes ago, Videra said:

My boy Ultimo really do be over here spouting nonsense as per usual. That he even uses single origin enhancements is mind boggling.

At least, in his money saving genius ways, he did not opt for training or duals…

[macskull]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:57 PM, Ultimo said:

All I said was that AVs and EBs shouldn't be defeating players before the players can do anything.  If my character has 800 health and Wretch does 400 damage with Hurl, the fight is over.

How much time, in seconds, do you think a character should be able to stay near an AV before that character needs to run away?

[Snarky]

48 minutes ago, macskull said:

How much time, in seconds, do you think a character should be able to stay near an AV before that character needs to run away?

A Defender using SOs?   Infinite, obvs.

[Bionic_Flea]

11 hours ago, macskull said:

How much time, in seconds, do you think a character should be able to stay near an AV before that character needs to run away?

[Neiska]

I'm starting to muse if he's possibly playing the wrong AT. If he wants to go toe to toe with AVs, some certainly can, but it takes planning an preparation. And he has to accept the fact that he has to use all tools available. Even if a Tanker or Brute is tough enough to stand up to them, they will often have to use things like Poison Daggers to overcome the regen.

 

Taking down an AV isn't about DEF/RES and leaping in. It's about bringing all the right tools required "by yourself," and is often a war of attrition. Slowly chipping away at their health while at the same time weathering their attacks and/or mechanics. And the specific things needed can vary AT to AT, but -regen is pretty much a must for all of them, even the GMs in open world, at least if you are going to fight them alone. Very few setups could do it without using tools outside of their primary and secondary powersets, no matter what AT you picked. And they are kind of designed this way on purpose. I don't think they intended AVs/GMs/TFs to be solo'd at all. The fact some people were smart enough to figure out ways to do it in the first place I think is pretty impressive.

[tidge]

38 minutes ago, Neiska said:

I'm starting to muse if he's possibly playing the wrong AT. If he wants to go toe to toe with AVs, some certainly can, but it takes planning an preparation. And he has to accept the fact that he has to use all tools available.

 

As near as I can tell (and I suspect I may be very generous in my assessment), this thread's complaint is:

 

On 8/30/2024 at 2:57 AM, Ultimo said:

  What I did say is the AV shouldn't be taking me out before I have any chance to fight back.

 

What the OP has ignored IMO are a LOT of game fundamentals that work in parallel with the "Who/what does the AV target first, and with which attacks?" The planning/preparation is at least as important as the continued execution of what will be a longish combat.

 

The "but my defender was porting into melee range of all other mobiles and not dying!" is NOT an argument to support "AVs hit too hard!" From my PoV, this is the rookie version of the argument "FREEM! is TOO HARD", because sooner-or-later, every character is going to get hit by an enemy attack (the floor is 1-in-20), and if the enemy has a better base ToHit, it is unwise to assume that such an enemy is going to be as bad at hitting as even-level minions.

 

Furthermore, this thread seems partially predicated IMO on another rookie-minded mistake, that somehow the player's reactions on the keyboard are going to be faster that what is happening at the server. Solo port into B2B combat with an AV with a notification toggle on? Guess who is going to almost certainly going to get the first attack!

 

I find the argument that "but I want to survive one hit!" disingenuous, as if that was the issue, there are ways for Defenders to get +Absorb, in addition to a Scaling Damage Resistance.