Is it time to reimagine the Flight Pool?

[PhotriusPyrelus]

6 hours ago, Uun said:

While I'm not a fan of Hover

You can have my hover when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

EDIT:

  

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Why does it need to be slower than every other travel power?  What balance is achieved by that?

Unlimited, permanent vertical mobility.

Super Speed is fastest because it has basically no vertical mobility (if CoH2 was ever made, Super Speed should let you run up walls and stuff, that would be awesome).

Super Jump is a middle ground between Speed and Flight.  It's got good vertical mobility, but you can't just sit in the air, and it's a little finnicky to use; takes practice.
Flight on the other hand has unmatched vertical mobility, and you can sit comfortably out of range of melee attacks, so its lateral mobility (speed) suffers.

Edited September 18 by PhotriusPyrelus

[Owl Girl]

4 hours ago, Andreah said:

Here's another option.

 

Make Fly and Hover make the caster's pets fly or hover, too. Automatically, no group fly required. MM's basically get a freebie, and will spec out of group fly in short order, and we'll see it relegated to the rare RP instances where people use it to mimic zero gravity for a roleplay scene.

okay but what if i want to hover but I don't want my melee pets to hover?

[Uun]

59 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

You can have my hover when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Please read what I said in its entirety rather than quoting pieces out of context: "While I'm not a fan of Hover or Air Superiority, I think both are fine as is and don't need to be changed or replaced. "

[kelika2]

Grant Invis

now we have Grant Flight

boom

[mistagoat]

54 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

okay but what if i want to hover but I don't want my melee pets to hover?

Make fly grant flight to owned pets and leave hover as it is. No reason to change both.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, mistagoat said:

Make fly grant flight to owned pets and leave hover as it is. No reason to change both.

And what if I don't want my beasts or ninjas flying around? I'm happy to have my MM flying around, but I don't want my pets flying around too. So there is no reason to change either. I can take Group Fly right now if I want my pets to fly too, or just Fly if I don't.

[Rudra]

I see no reason to change the Flight pool itself over just Group Fly. I'm fine with tweaks being made to Group Fly if possible so other players have the ability to not be affected by it without having to go to Null the Gull to do so. Again, if possible. Changing Hover, Air Superiority, and Fly though? No. Leave those alone.

[Owl Girl]

59 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Grant Invis

now we have Grant Flight

boom

this idea i think solves for the problem of willing beneficiaries of Group Flight moving outside of range and falling, but i think it would actually enhance it's griefing power because then I could just fly around shooting random passers-by instead of having to follow them around if I want to force unwilling participants to spurn the earth. of course, they could probably just cancel the buff if the prefer to condescend to the ground below...

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, Owl Girl said:

this idea i think solves for the problem of willing beneficiaries of Group Flight moving outside of range and falling, but i think it would actually enhance it's griefing power because then I could just fly around shooting random passers-by instead of having to follow them around if I want to force unwilling participants to spurn the earth. of course, they could probably just cancel the buff if the prefer to condescend to the ground below...

im like 90% certain you cant use grant invis on non group/raid folks

even then right click and C key

[Andreah]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Grant Invis

 

I'd like to be able to be immune to group stealth/invisibility, too.

 

Then at least one person on the team would be able to escort a hostage out without a long argument.

Edited September 19 by Andreah

[Biff Pow]

Add Flight to the Leadership Pool wth Group Fly as its secondary power.

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Biff Pow said:

Add Flight to the Leadership Pool wth Group Fly as its secondary power.

Not ever.

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

But if my understanding is correct, Group Fly is considered invaluable to MMs because it allows easy transport of pets over hazardous areas.

 

None of my masterminds have Group Fly.

With the end cost so cheap and the fast recharge on the henchmen summoning powers, it is not big deal to despawn when traveling great distances and respawning at the destination location.

 

20 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

But the issue is you're dragging the rest of the team around with you, whether they want it or not! That's the nub of it.

 

Well, that isn't what goes on. 

Group fly doesn't "drag anyone".

 

As long as you are within the field you can fly.

If you fly out of the field, you fall.

 

If you stay in one place and don't move and the person with group fly runs off, you fall out of the air.

Group Fly speed usually isn't as fast as the person that has Group fly so they can potentially fly fast enough so that anyone using their group fly gets outside of their group fly field, will lose flight, and fall - and this included pets.

In fact the power was changes because you had to move rather slowly if you wanted to keep henchmen within the group fly field.

 

20 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

The other players on your team or league have to be aware of Null the Gull and his ability to turn Fly off and to have visited them. Frankly, that is an untenable position for this power. It affects other players regardless of their own desire. It might once in the dim and distant past have had some utility but with the ability to get around our city so easily for everyone, there is no reason for it to impact other players at all.

 

One of the first things I do when I make a new character is to go to Null the Gull to turn off group fly, team teleport, and speed buffs ... among other things.

That being said, not everyone knows about Null the Gull.

 

It does seems that it could be potentially changed to affect pets and henchmen only.

 

20 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Hell, Jet Packs are now 10 an inf in game now. They literally give them away in some situations.

 

Day Job for parking in the Shadow Shard - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dimensional_Explorer_Badge

 

Traveler's Jet Pack

Toggle: Self Fly

Your hard work from your Day Job has given you access to a Jet Pack. The Traveler's Jetpack will allow you to fly for as long as there is enough fuel. Logging out in Grandville or The Shadow Shard will earn you additional usage time for your Traveler's Jet Pack.

 

Before a character earns this badge:

For every 2 hours logged out, a character gains 1 minute duration, up to a maximum of 2 hours duration.

After a character earns this badge, but not the Traveler accolade:

For every 1.4 hours logged out, a character gains 1 minute duration, up to a maximum of 2 hours duration.

After a character earns this badge and the Traveler accolade:

For every 0.7 hours logged out, a character gains 1 minute duration, up to a maximum of 2 hours duration.

 

20 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So why isn't Group Fly now modified into affecting only the PC and her pets? I doubt that's a difficult fix. In fact it should be added to Fly, so that the PC and Pets are automatically given the power of flight and go where they want to go and nobody else has their agency affected. That makes Group Fly redundant as it should be, and we can replace it with a power somebody actually might use.

 

Group Fly has a higher endurance cost than flight.

 

I don't think that masterminds should be able to fly around their pets for free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ukase]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

Fly is slow.  My only complaint. Why does it need to be slower than every other travel power?  What balance is achieved by that?

I have no idea what the answers to these questions are, but it would be nice to get some insights that made sense. The afterburner power makes it obvious that fly can certainly be faster. Why afterburner isn't the default speed of fly...I have no idea. I see no reason why it isn't. I would probably take fly more often if it were. But afterburner shutting off...I have no idea who thought that was a good idea.
I'm sure there's a reason. And probably a good one. Just no idea what it is. 

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I have no idea what the answers to these questions are, but it would be nice to get some insights that made sense. The afterburner power makes it obvious that fly can certainly be faster. Why afterburner isn't the default speed of fly...I have no idea. I see no reason why it isn't. I would probably take fly more often if it were. But afterburner shutting off...I have no idea who thought that was a good idea.
I'm sure there's a reason. And probably a good one. Just no idea what it is. 

There were a lot if great points made about fly being versatile and therefore deserving a speed penalty.  Okay.  Truth hurts. 
 

But…. I have the maps memorized.  I half mission doors memorized.  And I am consistently the last, or one of the last, to enter missions.  Unless i use mission transport.  At some point the logic breaks down.  Sure, that horse is faster and therefore we add weights to it.  But when it is dragging an anchor and is always last you may have overdid it….

[Indystruck]

18 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

This was rather my point.

 

Fly itself is rather overshadowed by Mystic Flighty which does that job much better - the only downside with the latter is the funky gfx that go with it that jar when playing a non-magical character.

 

Every power in the Flight Pool is sub-par IMO but the pool itself is invaluable so my question is; how do we make it worthy of the game of this venerability?

 

Hover and Evasive Maneuvers as easy Defense IO mules alone makes them worth while. Compared to the other power pools it's about the same. I mean, are you taking Flurry and Whirlwind terribly often? Spring Attack and Jump Kick?

 

Anyway, for your second point, you could just min-FX Mystic Flight nowadays so.

 

 

Edited September 19 by Indystruck

[mistagoat]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Well, that isn't what goes on. 

Group fly doesn't "drag anyone".

 

As long as you are within the field you can fly.

If you fly out of the field, you fall.

 

If you stay in one place and don't move and the person with group fly runs off, you fall out of the air.

Group Fly speed usually isn't as fast as the person that has Group fly so they can potentially fly fast enough so that anyone using their group fly gets outside of their group fly field, will lose flight, and fall - and this included pets.

In fact the power was changes because you had to move rather slowly if you wanted to keep henchmen within the group fly field.

 

 

When you are in a mission, on a TF, doing Hami, doing a MSR or any number of other team activities you are often sort of required to be in relatively close proximity to the rest of your team if you'd like to participate. If one of those team members is running GF then waiting for them to fly away isn't an option, they're always going to be nearby if you're running as team.

 

I don't really have a problem with anyone using GF when I'm just traveling through zones because, as you said, it's easy to move away. It's when you're forced into the proximity of a GF user in order to play the game that it becomes a problem. Technically you aren't being dragged along but functionally the result is the same.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

But…. I have the maps memorized.  I half mission doors memorized.  And I am consistently the last, or one of the last, to enter missions.  Unless i use mission transport.  At some point the logic breaks down.  Sure, that horse is faster and therefore we add weights to it.  But when it is dragging an anchor and is always last you may have overdid it….

 

I was always first or second to mission doors when I was using Hurdle as my travel power.  And that was when I was topping out just below Fly's old speed cap.

 

[Lunar Ronin]

40 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

 

Hover, Fly, and Evasive Maneuvers as easy Defense IO mules alone makes them worth while. Compared to the other power pools it's about the same. I mean, are you taking Flurry and Whirlwind terribly often? Spring Attack and Jump Kick?

 

Anyway, for your second point, you could just min-FX Mystic Flight nowadays so.

 

 

 

Exactly.  Flight is a great power pool for defense IO enhancement mules alone.  And in no way, shape, or form is Mystic Flight superior to Fly.  Mystic Flight is nice if you want a slower version of Fly combined with Combat Teleport, but it's significantly slower than Fly, and with the Flight power pool you get Hover, which you can either stack with Fly to get fast flight with no drift, or use on its own to get flight and extra defense while in combat without using a crazy amount of endurance unlike Mystic Flight.

 

The Flight power pool more than justifies itself as is.  There's no need for change, outside of Group Fly.

Edited September 19 by Lunar Ronin

[Snarky]

5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

I was always first or second to mission doors when I was using Hurdle as my travel power.  And that was when I was topping out just below Fly's old speed cap.

 

no.  just no.

 

I have used fly since I got Good vs Evil Edition.

 

When I got the Good vs Evil it came with Jump Pack temp/perma    I learned to use this as a "ghetto afterburner"  You can still do this.  If you hit fly, then activate the jump pack you will go faster.  granted you have to force yourself into a sine wave motion across the map or you will just go up.  

 

I use Afterburner now.  A lot of the time i know the map and probable door location before the next mission is set on TF/SF.  

 

Fly is s l o w     Do NOT tell me "just try harder"  

 

i will entertain a lot of stupid shit but that is about where I draw the line.  

 

 

 

[Lunar Ronin]

Fly being slow depends a lot on the map.  I find that only people with Teleport beat me to missions in Grandville, and not by much. 😛

 

Seriously, an enhanced Fly with Afterburner is faster than Super Speed was four years ago.

[Uun]

12 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

Mystic Flight is nice if you want a slower version of Fly combined with Combat Teleport, but it's significantly slower than Fly

Not true. Their stats are identical. It's only Afterburner that makes Fly faster.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.flight.fly&at=defender

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.sorcery.mystic_flight&at=defender

[Lunar Ronin]

2 minutes ago, Uun said:

Not true. Their stats are identical. It's only Afterburner that makes Fly faster.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.flight.fly&at=defender

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.sorcery.mystic_flight&at=defender

 

Yes, so Afterburner, which is built-in to Fly, makes Fly faster than Mystic Flight.

[Gravitus]

21 hours ago, Andreah said:

Here's another option.

 

Make Fly and Hover make the caster's pets fly or hover, too. Automatically, no group fly required. MM's basically get a freebie, and will spec out of group fly in short order, and we'll see it relegated to the rare RP instances where people use it to mimic zero gravity for a roleplay scene.

I am for this as long as we can make it to where MMs can fly solo if they choose to in certain instances. Someone also suggested to just put null in close proximity to every TF NPC. 

Edited September 19 by Gravitus

[Uun]

1 minute ago, Lunar Ronin said:

Yes, so Afterburner, which is built-in to Fly, makes Fly faster than Mystic Flight.

For 30s at a time with a 60s recharge. For me, the decision between Fly and Mystic Flight has nothing to do with Afterburner vs. Translocation. It has to do with whether I want Rune of Protection on that character.