Never Tanked (except with a Brute)

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

Punchvoke is a thing, but at low levels, those attacks aren't going to be super effective (fewer slots, less likely to have set bonuses, smaller enhancement values).

Guess that low level team will have to stick to single groups and/or maybe even pull then...

[tidge]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Guess that low level team will have to stick to single groups and/or maybe even pull then...

 

There *are* ambushes, and of course things happen.

[biostem]

Just now, tidge said:

There *are* ambushes, and of course things happen.

Sure.  Set it to -1 if the team is struggling.  Change tactics.  Trying to play something like Posi 1 the same way you'd play 50+ content isn't the answer...

[tidge]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Sure.  Set it to -1 if the team is struggling.  Change tactics.  Trying to play something like Posi 1 the same way you'd play 50+ content isn't the answer...

 

I believe you mean well, but this sort of advice offers very little in a thread questioning whether or not to take (or not take) Taunt on a Tanker. This advice is applicable for solo play (any AT) or on teams without Tankers.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

I believe you mean well, but this sort of advice offers very little in a thread questioning whether or not to take (or not take) Taunt on a Tanker. This advice is applicable for solo play (any AT) or on teams without Tankers.

I was specifically referring to the critique that taunt may not be available to a tanker at the minimum level for Posi 1.  

[tidge]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I was specifically referring to the critique that taunt may not be available to a tanker at the minimum level for Posi 1.  

 

 I excluded reference to Posi 1 when I wrote this (my first mention of low level TFs).

 

13 hours ago, tidge said:

 

For me: Taunt is expected, and I expect it to be taken before level 20. In a classic blue-side experience, I strongly dislike being on PUG and it isn't being used by Tankers on the Posi 2 or Synapse TFs. I will grant that some tankers may not quite have the suite of powers to handle all the damage than can come from some of those TFs (Toxic, especially), but I think it is pretty bad to see a "But my auras grab aggro fine when I solo" Tanker run past a bunch of critters that will turn on the rest of the teammates PDQ.

 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

 I excluded reference to Posi 1 when I wrote this (my first mention of low level TFs).

I responded to what I quoted, nothing more.

[WuTang]

AWWWW Y'all are fighting over me!

 

But seriously... I'm prob gonna take Taunt if I don't take an epic pool with a ranged attack.

 

Ok... So next question... I only have one Brute with SR, but I understand it's mechanics now and it is nigh unkillable. BUT with a Tanker would I be better off with a damage aura to take advantage of the increased targets and AOE damage? Am I wrong...but I think all the damage auras are on resist set, right? Which brings me to... Resist vs. Def

 

I have Brutes with resist sets that also have soft cap defenses. I don't worry so much about DDR since my resists are high, but then when there aren't any debuffs going around, I'm all god mode and stuff. I don't mind clicky defenses...

 

I did see an Electirc/Psi build @Infinitumposted that looked mighty good, from my very inexperienced perspective. It checks a few boxes, but I'm not a huge fan of Psi.

[Erratic1]

51 minutes ago, WuTang said:

Ok... So next question... I only have one Brute with SR, but I understand it's mechanics now and it is nigh unkillable. BUT with a Tanker would I be better off with a damage aura to take advantage of the increased targets and AOE damage? Am I wrong...but I think all the damage auras are on resist set, right? Which brings me to... Resist vs. Def

 

Yes, generally damage auras are on resistance based sets, but Bio breaks that being a universal truth.

 

As for being better off with a damage aura, if everything were the same between two tankers except one had a damage aura and one did not, then the one with a damage aura would be ever so slightly better off in terms of aggro holding, but....

 

One of the two Tankers I am currently working is a Bio/Dual Blades. Yes, he has a damage aura. I am also sure the thing which is most meaningful to the parties I am in is that what I am dealing with is spending significant portions of fights getting back up off the ground as I have two knockdown attacks. I see some party member has drawn attention from a few foes and the damage aura may eventually get those foes attention but knocking them all down really solves the problem far faster (as would hitting them all or taunting them).

 

I would not let damage auras drive my choice of armor set.

[tidge]

54 minutes ago, WuTang said:

Ok... So next question... I only have one Brute with SR, but I understand it's mechanics now and it is nigh unkillable. BUT with a Tanker would I be better off with a damage aura to take advantage of the increased targets and AOE damage? Am I wrong...but I think all the damage auras are on resist set, right? Which brings me to... Resist vs. Def

 

A little bit of Column A (Defense) and a little bit of Column B (Resistance) is usually the best choice. Without DDR, defenses will eventually fall (when fighting huge enemies). IMO the real advantage of Tankers when it comes to Resistances is that they have a HUGE pool of HP (which can be pretty straightforward to boost) so incorporating something like Scaling Damage Resistance can make a Tanker a LOT harder to defeat when the green bar is below 90%. This is probably what you are seeing on the SR Brute, as SR Tankers are the same. Absorb is a complicating factor for this sort of thinking, but generally it is a very positive feature for Tankers (again, because of the base Health).

 

"Immortal" Tanker builds got slightly more complicated when the damage typing was changed on Homecoming, but from my PoV it only really affected the "lololololol I got my muh S/L to 137%" builds. I exaggerate, I suppose.

 

The only Tanker Armor I wouldn't recommend as a first Tanker is Dark Armor. It is notorious for its toggles and Endurance cost, and it doesn't have any inherent knockback resistance/protection which can be problematic for its self-heal PBAoE. There is at least one toggle that is terrible (Cloak of Fear, primarily because of the base accuracy), and others that require some investment to make worthwhile (Oppressive Gloom, and to some extent also Death Shroud). This is not to say that a full-kit 50 can't make the entire suite of Dark Armor work, I've got a couple of different Dark Armor ATs. But it is a weirdly complicated set that will always have some sort of issue while leveling up. Plus you will never get to see your costume!

 

[Glacier Peak]

57 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

A little bit of Column A (Defense) and a little bit of Column B (Resistance) is usually the best choice. Without DDR, defenses will eventually fall (when fighting huge enemies). IMO the real advantage of Tankers when it comes to Resistances is that they have a HUGE pool of HP (which can be pretty straightforward to boost) so incorporating something like Scaling Damage Resistance can make a Tanker a LOT harder to defeat when the green bar is below 90%. This is probably what you are seeing on the SR Brute, as SR Tankers are the same. Absorb is a complicating factor for this sort of thinking, but generally it is a very positive feature for Tankers (again, because of the base Health).

 

"Immortal" Tanker builds got slightly more complicated when the damage typing was changed on Homecoming, but from my PoV it only really affected the "lololololol I got my muh S/L to 137%" builds. I exaggerate, I suppose.

 

The only Tanker Armor I wouldn't recommend as a first Tanker is Dark Armor. It is notorious for its toggles and Endurance cost, and it doesn't have any inherent knockback resistance/protection which can be problematic for its self-heal PBAoE. There is at least one toggle that is terrible (Cloak of Fear, primarily because of the base accuracy), and others that require some investment to make worthwhile (Oppressive Gloom, and to some extent also Death Shroud). This is not to say that a full-kit 50 can't make the entire suite of Dark Armor work, I've got a couple of different Dark Armor ATs. But it is a weirdly complicated set that will always have some sort of issue while leveling up. Plus you will never get to see your costume!

Dark Armor gets a fun self rez and the only Armor that causes the costume to be obstructed (assuming a player wants mostly low or no fx options) is the damage Aura. It's a good look!

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, tidge said:

Are you recommending it as a first Tanker?

It's the first Tanker I made on Homecoming. It was a fun experience for me. I'd recommend it to myself because of the look, feel, and fun. I renamed him after the Name Release Policy went live to Bone Saw.

 

 

Edit: I wish Dark Armor had repel resistance though! For the endurance consumption, I kept a good stock of temps to off set. I didn't take the Fear Aura or the other one at the end, but I did take the self rez. 

Edited December 5 by Glacier Peak

[Jacke]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

I was specifically referring to the critique that taunt may not be available to a tanker at the minimum level for Posi 1.  

 

Taunt is available to all Tankers at Level 10.  It can be challenging to take Taunt at Level 10 or even Level 20 and under, what with all the other Powers wanted and needed.  And whether the Tanker can take the attention that Taunt gathers is another question.

 

 

[Nemu]

3 pages of recommendations by scrubs for scrubs. This is what you really need

 

Real Tanks Don't Need No Toggles - Tanker (Super Reflexes - Martial Arts).mbd

[Seed22]

You want the best tank in the game? This is meta for all content including 4*

 

 

Bio/BA.

 

This is the pick of all top tier tank builders in the game for damage and survival in the hardest content in the game. 

[WuTang]

'Nother question

 

The +resist ATO, it's a proc but some are recommending it go in a toggle PBAOE. Tooltip says the +resist last 10 seconds but don't toggle procs only have a chance to hit every 10 seconds? 

 

And just how many times can it stack, realistically?

[WuTang]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

You want the best tank in the game? This is meta for all content including 4*

 

 

Bio/BA.

 

This is the pick of all top tier tank builders in the game for damage and survival in the hardest content in the game. 

I do like how Battle Axe works.

[WuTang]

@Spaghetti Betty Do you remember the /Bio Brute build you helped me with some weeks back?

 

For a Tanker, do I take a similar approach, or is it more about survivability?

[WuTang]

1 hour ago, Nemu said:

3 pages of recommendations by scrubs for scrubs. This is what you really need

 

Real Tanks Don't Need No Toggles - Tanker (Super Reflexes - Martial Arts).mbd 41.82 kB · 2 downloads

HAHA! My man that is some sick defenses!

Question about Aid Self, is it really a 4.33 cast?

Edited December 5 by WuTang

[Ukase]

We get 1000 slots, so make them all - and then come back and tell us which is the way to go! 

[WuTang]

42 minutes ago, Ukase said:

We get 1000 slots, so make them all - and then come back and tell us which is the way to go! 

Yup and if I ever wanna get around to making my 1000th character, less trial and error will help.

[Ukase]

1 minute ago, WuTang said:

Yup and if I ever wanna get around to making my 1000th character, less trial and error will help.

So, my best recommendations are Shield/mace. A truly satisfying crunch from mace, and a few built in mules for lotg, and Shield Charge which is a hoot.
Now, for leveling...the journey of the fire/MA or fire/ice tank are delightful. Fire isn't as weak as a lot of folks make it out to be. You can build for capped resist in s/l/e/fire. You could even squeeze cold in there, if that was worth it to you. and you'd still have burn. And it's super fun, compared to other sets which are ...well, it's all in the player's perspective, I suppose. 

Bio/SS can also be quite a thrill if you manage the rage crash well - which isn't that hard to do. 

I would begin with Shield/Mace. Then try Fire/MA and/or Fire/ice. Then Bio/SS, in that order. 

[Psyonico]

4 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

generally damage auras are on resistance based sets, but Bio breaks that being a universal truth.

As does Ice Armor, which is more defense based than Bio.

[Nemu]

1 hour ago, WuTang said:

Question about Aid Self, is it really a 4.33 cast?

And interruptible. But this build is so sick it can even take crappy powers and still be sick.

[Sovera]

Not to pull shade on Tidge because A)  they mean well, and B) they are correct. But in actual practice, especially for things of such dubious difficulty as Yin and Posi as the examples cited, can and are done without a Tanker or Brute in the team.

 

It's a case of spreadsheet theory VS actual in-game practice where a taunt can help but is not necessary. The game is not difficult and we are fightning +0 or +1 normal mobs that are not difficult either.

 

But, this is my opinion which has as much weight as Tidge's in that we all play as it fits our playstyle. I'm never going to say my playstyle is the correct one and everyone should do as I do.

 

More than a specific power what makes a Tanker a Tanker (no matter the AT) is how they play. I treat my team mates as my chicks and me the momma chicken.

 

 

Unrelated this thread made me want to level the Stone/MA I posted a few days back. It reaches softcap defenses without uniques or even amplifiers by level 12-13 so its a good test subject for an ironman challenge of not transferring any IOs or inf and not use the AH other than to buy attuned IOs and sell what drops.