Price gouging on Wentworths

[Display Name]

When recipe sellers begin to find out after fornicating around for so long.

 

Many times (especially with Luck of the Gambler Global Recharge,) I just purchase the enhancement and ignore the recipe.  I always check the enhancement before bidding on the recipe.

Of course, this will probably just "adjust" the prices of enhancements upwards massively to ensure that price gouging continues.  Because humans do nothing but disappoint.  If farming on Homecoming were un-crippled, then price gouging would be unimportant.

Edited Sunday at 02:46 AM by Display Name

[biostem]

Then run some TFs/trials to earn the requisite number of merits and materials, craft it yourself, and skip the AH entirely...

[Andreah]

29 minutes ago, Display Name said:

When recipe sellers begin to find out after fornicating around for so long.

 

Many times (especially with Luck of the Gambler Global Recharge,) I just purchase the enhancement and ignore the recipe.  I always check the enhancement before bidding on the recipe.

Of course, this will probably just "adjust" the prices of enhancements upwards massively to ensure that price gouging continues.  Because humans do nothing but disappoint.  If farming on Homecoming were un-crippled, then price gouging would be unimportant

So, what is your point?

 

Are you angry that recipes are priced too high, or not high enough?  

 

Are you upset that prices generally are too high?  Do you think farmers get too much for what they sell? Do you think they get too little?

 

All I get is some vague sense you're upset about something-something.

 

Also, we have an entire forums section to discuss the market -- you might find a lot more discussion there instead of here in General Discussion.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Display Name said:

humans do nothing but disappoint.

 

I would've expected someone who's been playing on this server for almost six years to have figured out that buying a (significantly) less expensive recipe, such as Experienced Marksman, and using a few converters was waaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter than trying to buy a specific recipe.  But I also would've expected someone who's been here for that length of time to know where to make market-related posts.

 

So I suppose you're right, human.

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Then run some TFs/trials to earn the requisite number of merits and materials, craft it yourself, and skip the AH entirely...

 

Being able to purchase Recipes and some Enhancements via Reward Merits puts an upper price on them.  I think most would consider that price to be rather high, much higher than using the Merits in other ways to get Inf to buy stuff on the Auction House.

 

 

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Being able to purchase Recipes and some Enhancements via Reward Merits puts an upper price on them.  I think most would consider that price to be rather high, much higher than using the Merits in other ways to get Inf to buy stuff on the Auction House.

Then I see no issue...  It's good to have options.

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 hours ago, Display Name said:

Of course, this will probably just "adjust" the prices of enhancements upwards massively to ensure that price gouging continues.  Because humans do nothing but disappoint.  If farming on Homecoming were un-crippled, then price gouging would be unimportant.

 

I'm genuinely curious:  what do you think the "fair" price of this item is or should be?  How does that change if you are buying or selling it?

[tidge]

I am also confused if this is a complaint that the price(s) of whatever are too high or too low?

 

FWIW, It strikes me as irresponsible to bid on a level 50 PVP %damage piece's recipe, as the crafting prices of level 50 recipes are much higher than for lower levels... and the %damage of the same but lower level piece is going to be the same as for a level 50 piece.

 

13 hours ago, Jacke said:

 

Being able to purchase Recipes and some Enhancements via Reward Merits puts an upper price on them.  I think most would consider that price to be rather high, much higher than using the Merits in other ways to get Inf to buy stuff on the Auction House.

 

The last time (years ago!) I did a personal back-of-the-envelope estimate comparing buy-with-merits-and-craft or convert-merits-to-sell-and-buy-with-inf The level 50 PVP pieces had to have AH prices above something like 16M to be more economical to buy-with-merits-and-craft... and I don't think they've been at that level for years. That is roughly the same price for Very Rares (which only exist at level 50, typically require more rare salvage, and I think have a larger default crafting cost than other level 50 recipes) and ATO/Winter pieces.

 

IMO PVP set pieces are somewhat unique as for me they pretty much only exist at level 10, catalyzed, and level 50 (to be boosted). The fungible market allows easy disposal/catalyzation of the pieces/recipes from levels 11 thru 49. I have some of these floating around, but generally they either get converted or catalyzed for personal use.

Edited Sunday at 05:54 PM by tidge
esplling

[Andreah]

I decided to look at the Gladiator's Javelin Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge today. Here's the IO:

 

It's selling at about 7 million. Looks reasonable to me.

 

Here's the recipe: 

 

It's selling at just over half the IO price. Price gouging? 

 

I was able to bid-creep up from 7 million to 8 million, where I found one for sale:

 

I don't think this is bad, either from the 7 million or the 8 million price.

 

The 8 million price is a thin markup from the 7 million price if a flipper is working this market. They'd be buying at 7 million, selling at 8 million, and making at least 300,000 profit for each.  People are willing to pay 8 million for this IO, if they get it right now. It's a good price point for IO's of this utility.

 

Now, if someone else is crafting them from recipes, it requires :

This list of salvage and 490400 Inf to craft. The salvage has a value of about one million inf (these days you can sell the rare for over 900k and each of the uncommons for 25-50k if you are patient). So you are looking at a crafting cost of about a million and a half. So, round that down to be generous and call it five million. Now, the crafter had to spend the time getting the recipes and salvage, and also time spent doing the crafting itself. Most mass producers aren't making these by farming, or even by directly crafting them, but by converting other, less in-demand PvP IO's and recipes. So you'll be adding in some converter costs as well as time. We value our time. The spread between the costs of materials and the value of the final item sold has to cover that time and leave a modest profit for the crafter.  In fact, if that value per minute of effort isn't comparable to other game activities, they wouldn't do it. 

 

If a player is are concerned about the price spread between a recipe and the final IO, they should try crafting ten of them to sell. See how much time goes into it, and ask what a return on that would be to make it worth doing. A million or two isn't unreasonable.

 

And if we "un-nerf" farming, that spread will grow, because farming increases the supply of the input materials, lowering their value, increases the demand for the final IO's produced (more people will make new farmer toons), injects more cash into the economy, making people more willing to spend on pricey IO's, AND then the return on time spent crafting has to compete with more lucrative farming. Why would I spend an hour crafting if I can earn more money farming? 

 

All things considered, I think we're in a good spot.

 

And those who hate all this with passion can buy with merits. That's still there, every bit as easy as it always has been.

 

[Andreah]

17 minutes ago, tidge said:

FWIW, It strikes me as irresponsible to bid on a level 50 PVP %damage piece's recipe, as the crafting prices of level 50 recipes are much higher than for lower levels... and the %damage of the same but lower level piece is going to be the same as for a level 50 piece.

 

Shhh. >.>

 

If a player is getting them from a farmer, the first instinct is probably to craft them as they drop, which as you note is a bad deal. Lowering the level via a AH transaction might help with this, but it's also more time spent finagling stuff and trading a 10% transaction fee on it. It wouldn't save enough for me to be worth it.

Edited Sunday at 06:13 PM by Andreah

[Andreah]

Also, good luck to anyone who wants to buy those recipes at 3.5million -- that's, imo, a mass purchaser's patient price, and if you try to penny or nickle over them, they'd probably respond fast.

[Intrinsic]

Most or all of the supply of Javelin proc enhancements in the AH is coming from other PvP enhancements that have been converted into Javelin procs, not from Javelin proc recipes.  The price of the recipes is not going to increase the price of the enhancements.  It's the other way around, the price of the converted enhancements is depressing the price of the recipes.  If enhancement converters didn't exist, those recipes would be selling at a much higher price.

[tidge]

As an aside... I truly can't remember the last time I used a Gladiator's Javelin %Toxic piece in a build. Maybe on a Stalker's epic snipe from long ago? I know that there aren't many options for %damage from purely ranged damage sets, but there is a lot of design space that makes adding that %proc to a single-target ranged attack an uphill battle for me:

• single-target ranged attacks are usually good for set bonuses
• single-target ranged attacks are usually bad for %proc rates (and benefit more from set-slotting as opposed to franken-slotting)
• single-target ranged attacks often have another component (e.g. Defense debuff) that offer alternative %damage type
• Gladiator's Javelin has some IMO mediocre set bonuses, YMMV.

 

[UltraAlt]

On 1/4/2025 at 10:13 PM, Andreah said:

So, what is your point?

 

It seems to be that they believe farming should be more important than crafting and trading on the /ah

 

On 1/4/2025 at 9:40 PM, Display Name said:

If farming on Homecoming were un-crippled, then price gouging would be unimportant.

 

[Riverdusk]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

As an aside... I truly can't remember the last time I used a Gladiator's Javelin %Toxic piece in a build. Maybe on a Stalker's epic snipe from long ago? I know that there aren't many options for %damage from purely ranged damage sets, but there is a lot of design space that makes adding that %proc to a single-target ranged attack an uphill battle for me:

• single-target ranged attacks are usually good for set bonuses
• single-target ranged attacks are usually bad for %proc rates (and benefit more from set-slotting as opposed to franken-slotting)
• single-target ranged attacks often have another component (e.g. Defense debuff) that offer alternative %damage type
• Gladiator's Javelin has some IMO mediocre set bonuses, YMMV.

 

 

I don't know, I find I use it pretty often.  Just looking at one of my latest characters an elec/elec sent I put it in zapping bolt, 5 Apocalypse (skipping dam/rech) and the Glad Jav Proc.  I find I often use that exact slotting in one of my ranged attacks on quite a few of my characters.

[tidge]

24 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

 

I don't know, I find I use it pretty often.  Just looking at one of my latest characters an elec/elec sent I put it in zapping bolt, 5 Apocalypse (skipping dam/rech) and the Glad Jav Proc.  I find I often use that exact slotting in one of my ranged attacks on quite a few of my characters.

 

I smell what you are cooking. I can imagine it being slotted... especially if the power has no other damage type (beside poison) %proc available, but all things being equal, I might just prefer the extra 6% psi defense (6th slot of Apocalypse) and guaranteed 5%-ish more damage by adding Damage/Recharge (from the attack). On average I guess (some scribbling off-panel) the difference is only 6ish more of the same type damage versus 36ish (of a different type of damage), but it is still only against a single-target. I tend to drop %damage in the AoEs.

 

Another personal feeling about %damage in a single-target attack is a somewhat arbitrary one: Ultimately I want to minimize the total number of attacks against large groups... so if the both the 6xApocalypse choice and the 5xApocalypse+2nd %proc choice don't end up speeding clear times (after nuking a goup) then the extra %damage wasn't really helping (to my thinking). Obviously things are a little different for Sentinels and Blasters with respect to AoEs... but again, if I have an extra slot for %damage, I am probably putting it in an AoE attack.