I AE and PI'd several characters

[Andreah]

It's not only having the chance to learn what powers do, but also the time spent with them (which admittedly varies by person) of practicing one's facility with the controls to develop the eye-hand coordination to get them firing off in a smooth and useful sequence. 

[Seed22]

Im pretty much done making alts. 
 

But when i was in a craze, i would just PL. At this point, I’ve done the traditional leveling experience enough times to know i never want to do it again. 
 

My issue hasn’t been AE babies, as others have put here, it’s been that the CoH player base seems to largely be illiterate and lazy, so leading content that requires a first grade reading level has been difficult, like HM. 
 

That’s indifferent to whether you got PL’ed to 50 or played naturally. The game never encourages you to read. 
 

Or rather, it seems nobody ever does because people lack the ability to read and follow simple instructions, no matter the content.

Edited February 4 by Seed22

[tidge]

6 hours ago, biostem said:

TBH, at least IMO, farmers dump a lot of items on the AH, which helps drive prices down, but even with that in mind, most farmers play highly specialized builds, which don't do quite as well outside of the AE or against more varied enemy types.  That isn't to say they wouldn't do well in other settings or content, only that I've never thought to myself "gee, I sure wish I had a farmer's character outside of the AE and on my team right about now"...

 

NuEochai strikes me as tailor-made for Fire Farmers!

[Ukase]

10 hours ago, biostem said:

TBH, at least IMO, farmers dump a lot of items on the AH, which helps drive prices down, but even with that in mind, most farmers play highly specialized builds, which don't do quite as well outside of the AE or against more varied enemy types.  That isn't to say they wouldn't do well in other settings or content, only that I've never thought to myself "gee, I sure wish I had a farmer's character outside of the AE and on my team right about now"...

While what you say is true, I'm pretty sure a lot of farmers have a fair number of alts. After all, I think that's why at least half the folks with a farmer made the farmer in the first place - to fund the alts. So, at least from what I've read in various chats and Discord, one aspect of discontent is those folks who are farming could be doing a Synapse with the player who can't fill their team. I certainly can't speak for anyone, but that's some of what I get from various posts. 

[COH Radgen]

50 minutes ago, Ukase said:

doing a Synapse with the player who can't fill their team

But...but I already did a Synapse on each alt. Isn't that enough penance?

[Jacke]

15 hours ago, biostem said:

...most farmers play highly specialized builds, which don't do quite as well outside of the AE or against more varied enemy types.

 

I don't farm much now, but for my Spines/Fire Brutes, I settled on a build that with the +MaxHP Accolades works well enough on AFK as well as Active Farming, while also good enough for other content.

[Andreah]

I make a lot fewer than I used to, once I found my permanent main. However, when I do, I tend to level them up pretty fast. I depend on my many years of playing lots of different characters, powersets, and roles to ensure I'm not a burden while I get up to speed on controls and tactics. 

 

However, I can definitely tell that the hundreds of hours I have in my main have put me far, far ahead playing that character than any of my alts. I suppose that's the same for others. 

 

If I leveled a new alt up very slowly getting all those hours in, I'm sure it would make a difference. Would it be enough to matter? From my experience with others, I don't think so. We're almost all pretty easy going on sub-optimal builds and even sub-optimal play. If a teammate is evident giving it a good effort, I'd never complain.

[Apogee]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

While what you say is true, I'm pretty sure a lot of farmers have a fair number of alts. After all, I think that's why at least half the folks with a farmer made the farmer in the first place - to fund the alts. So, at least from what I've read in various chats and Discord, one aspect of discontent is those folks who are farming could be doing a Synapse with the player who can't fill their team. I certainly can't speak for anyone, but that's some of what I get from various posts. 

 

You make it sound like some folks feel it is a player's obligation to team.

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Apogee said:

 

You make it sound like some folks feel it is a player's obligation to team.

Because they do?

 

There have been a good chunk over the years who go "I don't know why people play solo" or act intentionally obtuse over people not wanting to team. 

[Sanguinesun]

On 2/1/2025 at 8:48 PM, Octogoat said:

I don't see what the stigma is. I went back and ouroboros'd all the missions, making different choices each time after IOing. You still experience content just with swim floaties.

 

Excuses will abound by the detractors from people leveling how they wish to; but it boils truly down to elitism.  They just dress it up otherwise.

 

As an example, the ones that say that new players pl'ing is "wrong" and then attack such people for not knowing how to play(by their standards) instead of working with folks to learn to play when they denounce, kick, etc those folks from teams etc.    They'd just simply prefer play of the game to be some form of an initiation where people either sink or swim and  accepting the those who've swam sufficiently in their eyes.  Same individuals typically also hate the April Mapserve event and the Halloween one as well.  They've been responsible for running off not a small number of people over the years that have not conformed to their play expectations.   

 

Its a shame but every few months these sorts of debates on this get dredged up.  They may very well win their desires for any form of leveling outside of a specific pace they wish to dictate as acceptable, but it'll likely not have the intended results they expect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mopery]

Sometimes, people just want to go to the orgy to masturbate.

[Apogee]

2 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Because they do?

 

There have been a good chunk over the years who go "I don't know why people play solo" or act intentionally obtuse over people not wanting to team. 

 

I play solo so I don't have to deal with those people.

[Clave Dark 5]

On 2/3/2025 at 9:36 AM, TheOtherTed said:

Just out of curiosity, has PLing changed much since Live?

• People enjoy camping Bot MMs in areas where people ToT (like the PI murder hotel) to leech XP and drops.
• People now dual-box to run "AFK farms" where they run to the back of a map, rescue someone which spawns the map full of foes, then set themselves on "follow" as the someone walks back out through the mobs while their AoEs (or, again,Bots; Bots MMs are one of the most popular toons apparently) do all the killing while they actually play on the other acount.  Seriously.

5 hours ago, Mopery said:

Sometimes, people just want to go to the orgy to masturbate.

And then boast about how fast they got it over with.  😄 

[SoundGirl]

Some times I get lost, from time to time, I got way too comfortable with having a base teleporter macro and all the zones teleports.

[Stormwalker]

I don't care how people leveled as long as they play the game competently when I'm teamed with them.  Note the word "competently".  I don't expect everyone to be an expert in everything.  I don't expect people to be perfect, and I don't expect them to be optimal.  I don't even mind if someone gets killed a lot (I've had the occasional bad day myself), as long as it's not in content where that's an issue.  I do mind if they're not contributing to the group at all because it's their first character and they got PL'd to 50 and thus never learned the fundamentals of playing the game.

 

If they already know how to play the game, I have no problem with people PL'ing.  Personally, I'd recommend not PL'ing your first character on a given AT.  Every AT has new stuff to learn, and leveling up the old-fashioned way is the best way to learn it.  But that's a recommendation, not a demand.

 

I don't do it myself because PL'ing is boring and tedious and I'd rather just play the game.  The game doesn't start at 50.  Also, I'd rather do as much of the content on-level as I can because I generally do not optimize my builds for exemplar play.

 

I am occasionally tempted to PL certain characters that have frustrating problems in certain level ranges (example: SR Scrapper at low-mid levels due to lack of AoE defense).  But I don't give in to that temptation because I remember the one character I did PL and how much I hated it.

 

But I know other people don't see it that way.  And as long as they've already learned the fundamentals of the game and won't be dragging down their teams, they can PL to their hearts' content and it doesn't bother me a bit.  In converse, I ask that people don't look down on me for playing through my story arcs solo and taking months to get to 50.  I'm having plenty of fun the way I'm playing, and have no real desire to change.

[Sovera]

Even back when I teamed I didn't care if the person had a clue or not. Don't know where to go? I'll inform them. Don't have a good build or are properly slotted? It's a full team so we're obliterating so I wouldn't even notice unless they said something about dying so much or being so slow compared to others. AFK to take care of the baby or for a smoke? Go for it. AFK each time we enter a mission? Don't care (happened, but was very rare and I teamed a LOT).

[MoonSheep]

11 hours ago, Sovera said:

Even back when I teamed I didn't care if the person had a clue or not. Don't know where to go? I'll inform them. Don't have a good build or are properly slotted? It's a full team so we're obliterating so I wouldn't even notice unless they said something about dying so much or being so slow compared to others. AFK to take care of the baby or for a smoke? Go for it. AFK each time we enter a mission? Don't care (happened, but was very rare and I teamed a LOT).

 

[Ukase]

On 2/4/2025 at 7:02 PM, Apogee said:

 

You make it sound like some folks feel it is a player's obligation to team.

Some folks do. They are in the Jack Emmert camp of "The only reason to play an MMO is to team". I am not in that camp. I would be if I found enough folks that were aligned with how I generally like to do things - and even more critically, when I'd like to do them. But, even then, particularly during the day, I can go afk with little to no advance notice. Generally fine when solo, but when teamed, that's just not fair to the team. 

[JJDrakken]

On 2/1/2025 at 5:48 AM, Octogoat said:

I don't see what the stigma is. I went back and ouroboros'd all the missions, making different choices each time after IOing. You still experience content just with swim floaties.

 

The Stigma is that a lot our player base(Ok maybe 25% I'm speculating) would rather sit in a Farm and let someone else play the game for them.  They did no work for the levels, they most likely don't understand how to use their powers in a various situation. But they are also loudest do the constant begging/spamming in LFG to sit in farms.

 

Basically lvl 50 n00bs that need to learn, but most don't.  They repeat the process or go on TF/SF and sorta just shuffle along with masses.  Letting others who know what their doing carry them basically at 50.

 

I personally have PL'd my own toons before with my other accounts.  But I also understand how things work and how to use them in whatever situation.  The reason that Stigma started is for the reason I said above.  You got bunch of 50 n00bs not really knowing what they are doing. I also at end of day don't care what you do. What I do care if you are constantly spamming LFG to sit on a farm.  98% Farmers won't PL you. They work solo or only accept Hitters or friends on their farms.

 

That folks also get tired of seeing folks in LFG(Excelsior/Everlasting here) begging to sit in farm. I myself have 0 issue PLing folks, they just have to work with it, with rest of the team on my mission teams. Even if you got 1 power, spam it and be proactive.  ONLY time you see me sitting on a farm is if I'm sick and can't sleep or if I catch a friend on her Friday runs. That's mostly to sit and BS with her via Twitch.

 

Behind all things we dislike there a reason/kernels of truths as to why. Over time it just grows into other reasons, like OMFG play the game like me or you suck, etc...

 

So that's why most folks act the way they do about the whole Farming/PLing. 

Edited Friday at 07:21 PM by JJDrakken

[Seed22]

I have to reiterate. There is no correlation whatsoever to how you got to 50 and your level of knowledge with the game. Sounds counterintuitive but I'll elaborate.

 

Say you've taken a year or 3 long break from CoH and are just coming back but have never AE farmed. You can still be an AE baby in that you probably don't remember how your build works, how to get to zones, etc.

 

A lot of people who play organically also don't understand anything resembling an optimized rotation. I bet 2 bil inf a  lot of  people on the forums who champion the organic leveling experience can't even tell me how to, one, optimize a build, two, discern a proper attack chain, and three, get off the BS of pursuing 45% Def on non Def toons. 

 

Does that mean I have the right to demonize you? No. Best I can do is try and educate you on the above topics instead of negatively impacting your experience.

[DoctorDitko]

The time that cracked me up was an anecdote a friend told me:

 

Friend is leading a Posi 1, character X dings, and asked if he can level up before the next mish.

They are near the center of Steel, so the leader says, "Sure. Just hurry."

The team are talking for several minutes, then someone notices, "What's up with character X?"

Leader says, "X how you doing? Need help choosing?"

X "Almost there!"

Then the team sees him zone into Atlas.

 

Yeah, he was running to Lady Liberty.

 

[jprewitt73]

On 2/4/2025 at 10:10 PM, Mopery said:

Sometimes, people just want to go to the orgy to masturbate.

 

Your forum photo seems rather poignant to this particular quote.