Tanker: Elec/DM, Dark/ElM, or Shield/DM?

[Shadowstormprime]

Hi all!

 

A bit of a pivot here.

 

Pretty much the title. I like the Electric + Dark theme  (as you can probably tell from my username) and want to run a tanker combining Darkness and Electricity! I just kind of like the theme for dark and light coming together, and I’m hoping to make this my namesake hero.

This leaves kind of three options: Elec Armor/Dark Melee, Dark Armor/Electric Melee or Shield/Dark Melee.

 

Electric Armor/Dark Melee might be the most self sufficient of the bunch. You get a damage aura to go along with proc’d out attacks. You also get 2 heals and 2 endurance recovers (if you choose to get all of them). This will help when you run into baddies that have toxic dmg (your main hole). Seems like this combo can just keep going and going and going. End shouldn’t be an issue, so could go Musculature. 
 

Dark Armor/Electric Melee seems like a true “controller” tank with its abilities to stack disorients (OG + Lightning Clap + Thunderstrike). Resists seem solid across the board, with decent defenses as well AND the best heal in the game. AOE should be good, but I could see ST dmg lacking. Lightning Rod is all kinds of fun/awesome. Endurance could be an issue with the combo though, so might have to lean on Cardiac or Vigor Alpha late game. 
 

Shield Defense/Dark Melee could work with the electric shield option. I’ve heard it is an amazing combo on a Scrapper, but could see it also working really well on a Tanker (they can abuse procs pretty heavily on attacks). Shield Charge is a lot of fun as well and AAO can help stack damage with Soul Drain to really start ramping damage over time. Endurance could be an issue with this combo as well, would probably have to lean into the Psionic Patron Pool for Harmonic Mind.

 

All can work with my “Shadowstorm” theme, so which would you recommend for endgame, fully built out?

[WuTang]

Dude I'm torn.... Thematically I like DA/ElM. For quality of life, I prefer EA/DM.

[StriderIV]

Honestly, great choices across the board.

Hard to stack rank them, but I'd probably say either Elec/DM or Shield/DM would be slightly more optimal than DA/ElM. I do happen to have an Elec/DM Tanker and a DM/Shield Scrapper.

DM/Shield Scrap runs as advertised and really is just a solid jack of all trades. I see no reason why it couldn't work nice on a Tanker (I think @SomeGuy has mentioned how ToF procs REALLY well now). That is what I do on my Elec/DM Tanker and it pretty much goes as you say.... the thing is very self sufficient and never stops. I honestly don't know why I see it more, since it feels pretty "easy" mode. You can check out this thread on it a while back where @Erratic1, @Xandyr, @Sovera, @BuiltDifferent5 , @Syant and @Story Archer chat about it:
 

This isn't to say that Dark Armor/Elec Melee wouldn't be AWESOME... I love my Dark/Staff Tanker. I just feel you might need to make some more concessions with the build in order to deal with endurance, KB proctection, that kind of stuff. If you can work your way around that, it could be beastly.

All this being said, I've picked the brains of many of the amazing builders I already mentioned, as well as some more of these geniuses who might be able to give some insights. I always find these discussions fun!:
 

@Onlyasandwich, @Zect, @PLVRIZR, @Spaghetti Betty, @Warboss, @Werner, @SeraphimKensai, @Ronin_Around, @tidge

Why, I really feel like I'm summoning the Justice League here.

[StriderIV]

4 minutes ago, WuTang said:

Dude I'm torn.... Thematically I like DA/ElM. For quality of life, I prefer EA/DM.

I think you hit the nail on the head for me as well. DA/ElM will truly feel like a "Shadowstorm" flying around. EA/DM just drives SO nice though.

[SeraphimKensai]

Surprised I've been included in the so-called Justice League. I'm probably more JSA material.

 

All jokes aside...

Between the three potential toons I personally would go with Dark/Elec. I'm probably biased as I have a dark/elec controller and an elec/dark blaster, and a dark/elec defender all incarnates that I dig. I have lvl 50 tankers with all the power sets in question kinda mixed and matched.

 

Shield/Dark I think is overkill on flooring the enemy's chance to hit. That said Souldrain/AAO is really nice.. likely even better with tar patch from dark mastery.

 

Elec/dark stacks resistance and adds tohit debuff, souldrain and the ilk. Again a nice option.

 

Dark/elec as the OP pointed out stacking OG and Lightning Clap/Thunderstike is a quick way of stun locking pretty much all non AVs. That in itself is a huge damage mitigation to not only you but the whole team. IOs can be taken to reduce end use think unbreakable guard for end discount and gladiator's armor for end recovery. If it's still an issue musculature radial. If I were to build this I'd probably work in tar patch too, or darkest night for further team mitigation. This one would likely be my choice.

[StriderIV]

@SeraphimKensai I lol'd 😂 I do admite that Dark/Elec seems like it could have some interesting use cases that are unique to it. Typically I skip Lightning Clap myself on Elec Melee, but I can see it's value when paired with Dark Armor.

[Warboss]

Dark/Elect = Thunder and Lightning, what's not to love? Fast strong heal, teleport "Boom", OG, grab an immob on your epic/patron (at 35 if you can), you're good to go. Of course you do need to add some KB protection... because Tanks can't have nice things... but....

[Warboss]

Shield/DM might edge them out a bit at higher levels as it adds a combat heal to high Defense and stacking DDR (ends up around ~%86 when stacked).

My guess is that it would be fairly close but:

SD/DM - hard to hit, combat heal, potential for several AoEs. No real downsides.

Dark/Elect - Edge over Elect being faster higher effect AoE Heal that can recover End as well and be slotted for damage. Con, you do have to build for KB Resist. Other - Can build for Def (Melee), but no DDR, so once the hits start no more Def.

Elect/Dark - Good KB resist and Resists overall coming out of the gate (but uneven ground/sloping maps issue). Can sap enemies End. Con, slow main Heal, need to fast cycle combat heal. Very vulnerable to Toxic (which makes no sense...).

 

Probably a few other things I've forgotten to mention that I'm sure others will bring up.

[Shadowstormprime]

3 hours ago, Warboss said:

Shield/DM might edge them out a bit at higher levels as it adds a combat heal to high Defense and stacking DDR (ends up around ~%86 when stacked).

My guess is that it would be fairly close but:

SD/DM - hard to hit, combat heal, potential for several AoEs. No real downsides.

Dark/Elect - Edge over Elect being faster higher effect AoE Heal that can recover End as well and be slotted for damage. Con, you do have to build for KB Resist. Other - Can build for Def (Melee), but no DDR, so once the hits start no more Def.

Elect/Dark - Good KB resist and Resists overall coming out of the gate (but uneven ground/sloping maps issue). Can sap enemies End. Con, slow main Heal, need to fast cycle combat heal. Very vulnerable to Toxic (which makes no sense...).

 

Probably a few other things I've forgotten to mention that I'm sure others will bring up.

This is very helpful thanks! It is so funny because I posted on Reddit as well and, while Dark/Elec seems like it’s getting the most support here, it hasn’t gotten a SINGLE vote in there 😂

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/s/lGN8fugEuH
 

I see you do a ton of Tanker stuff @Warboss! Seems like, in your opinion one they are all fully built out, Elec/DM might be the lowest performer. Dark/Elec and Shield/DM would be close, with shield probably edging it a bit but Dark/Elec probably fitting the best thematically?

[Shadowstormprime]

7 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Surprised I've been included in the so-called Justice League. I'm probably more JSA material.

 

All jokes aside...

Between the three potential toons I personally would go with Dark/Elec. I'm probably biased as I have a dark/elec controller and an elec/dark blaster, and a dark/elec defender all incarnates that I dig. I have lvl 50 tankers with all the power sets in question kinda mixed and matched.

 

Shield/Dark I think is overkill on flooring the enemy's chance to hit. That said Souldrain/AAO is really nice.. likely even better with tar patch from dark mastery.

 

Elec/dark stacks resistance and adds tohit debuff, souldrain and the ilk. Again a nice option.

 

Dark/elec as the OP pointed out stacking OG and Lightning Clap/Thunderstike is a quick way of stun locking pretty much all non AVs. That in itself is a huge damage mitigation to not only you but the whole team. IOs can be taken to reduce end use think unbreakable guard for end discount and gladiator's armor for end recovery. If it's still an issue musculature radial. If I were to build this I'd probably work in tar patch too, or darkest night for further team mitigation. This one would likely be my choice.

I do like that control aspect you listed. With those 3 stacking, you’d be able to keep EB’s stunned?

 

I think there might be TOO much use endurance wise for Musculature Radial. Might have to look at Vigor or Cardiac.

[Spaghetti Betty]

Hullo! A big red circle with a '1' in it came crashing through my window and hit me right in the temple! Now that I have pending house repairs and a concussion, I'm going to make it this thread's problem!

 

Let's see, Elec/DM, Dark/Elec, or Shield/DM. Well, if you're looking for cruise control, Elec/DM would be your best bet! I don't think having two recovery powers is really necessary. Power Sink (+Energize) is enough on its own to keep your blue bar topped off, and you absolutely should be spamming it on cooldown, because it recharges fast and plummets mob endurance as well! Where this combo falls short is really just a major flaw of Dark Melee itself. It relies completely on Soul Drain to not hit like wet paper! This makes it a bit difficult to bust certain thresholds, and it especially suffers against a big body without some trash to leech off of. I'm sure a little bit of finagling could to turn it into something I'd be happy with, though!

 

Shield/DM is definitely a classic, though I am a Shield disliker! It's very, um, what's the word I want to use.... dependent! It kind of demands a lot from the player from a building standpoint, and what you're rewarded with is an endurance hog with a few extra bells and whistles that its uncle SR wouldn't get, which is kind of whatever to me! It's also has a couple of technical problems that I will relegate to a spoiler so anyone that doesn't want to read my complaining can skip!

Spoiler

Shield Defense is plagued with rooting errors due to using its own set of animations. Whereas any other toon can move freely while casting certain self buffs (namely on this list is Rune of Protection and Barrier Core), a toon with Shield Defense will remain rooted casting the same powers with their shield active. This is more advanced stuff, but Present Popping doesn't work with Shield! You have to use /e ultimatepower instead which requires a different timing. The humanity!

Anyways, that's not to say it wouldn't run fine! I would ditch Dark Consumption and just run Ageless at 50! It'll fix a lot of the problems the combo has. Though ultimately, I think I would just personally stick to SR/DM!

 

Lastly, I would argue strongly against Dark/Elec! A little bit of "control" is absolutely not worth how intense Dark Armor is on END! Personally, I feel like it could be fun for a handful of hours, but in my experience, Thunder Clap alone is enough soft control to deal with anything short of EBs. I'm also in the business of getting fights over quickly, so a lot of the extra gimmicky stuff this combo brings would be wasted in my hands. I would be busy trying to find a way to make Elec Melee do any kind of damage outside of Lighting Rod!

 

 

I know this wasn't exactly a definitive "choose this one" answer, but I feel like explaining how I felt about each option tends to be a bit more helpful than trying to force someone's hand!

Edited February 15 by Spaghetti Betty

[Shadowstormprime]

9 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Hullo! A big red circle with a '1' in it came crashing through my window and hit me right in the temple! Now that I have pending house repairs and a concussion, I'm going to make it this thread's problem!

 

Let's see, Elec/DM, Dark/Elec, or Shield/DM. Well, if you're looking for cruise control, Elec/DM would be your best bet! I don't think having two recovery powers is really necessary. Power Sink (+Energize) is enough on its own to keep your blue bar topped off, and you absolutely should be spamming it on cooldown, because it recharges fast and plummets mob endurance as well! Where this combo falls short is really just a major flaw of Dark Melee itself. It relies completely on Soul Drain to not hit like wet paper! This makes it a bit difficult to bust certain thresholds, and it especially suffers against a big body without some trash to leech off of. I'm sure a little bit of finagling could to turn it into something I'd be happy with, though!

 

Shield/DM is definitely a classic, though I am a Shield disliker! It's very, um, what's the word I want to use.... dependent! It kind of demands a lot from the player from a building standpoint, and what you're rewarded with is an endurance hog with a few extra bells and whistles that its uncle SR wouldn't get, which is kind of whatever to me! It's also has a couple of technical problems that I will relegate to a spoiler so anyone that doesn't want to read my complaining can skip!

  Reveal hidden contents

Shield Defense is plagued with rooting errors due to using its own set of animations. Whereas any other toon can move freely while casting certain self buffs (namely on this list is Rune of Protection and Barrier Core), a toon with Shield Defense will remain rooted casting the same powers with their shield active. This is more advanced stuff, but Present Popping doesn't work with Shield! You have to use /e ultimatepower instead which requires a different timing. The humanity!

Anyways, that's not to say it wouldn't run fine! I would ditch Dark Consumption and just run Ageless at 50! It'll fix a lot of the problems the combo has. Though ultimately, I think I would just personally stick to SR/DM!

 

Lastly, I would argue strongly against Dark/Elec! A little bit of "control" is absolutely not worth how intense Dark Armor is on END! Personally, I feel like it could be fun for a handful of hours, but in my experience, Thunder Clap alone is enough soft control to deal with anything short of EBs. I'm also in the business of getting fights over quickly, so a lot of the extra gimmicky stuff this combo brings would be wasted in my hands. I would be busy trying to find a way to make Elec Melee do any kind of damage outside of Lighting Rod!

 

 

I know this wasn't exactly a definitive "choose this one" answer, but I feel like explaining how I felt about each option tends to be a bit more helpful than trying to force someone's hand!

Very helpful Betty, thanks! Seems like Elec/DM might have the most potential (in your eyes) I was thinking about taking Dark Cosumption as well, but procing it out for damage. Not worth you think?

 

That is super interesting to hear about Shield! I haven’t read about those issues before… seems like less of a game breaking thing and more of an annoyance?

[Spaghetti Betty]

23 minutes ago, Shadowstormprime said:

Very helpful Betty, thanks! Seems like Elec/DM might have the most potential (in your eyes) I was thinking about taking Dark Cosumption as well, but procing it out for damage. Not worth you think?

You would get better mileage out of an epic AoE! The best ones (Dark Obliteration, Fire Ball) have the same radius, are ranged, and still have max proc chances while recharging three times as quickly!

 

24 minutes ago, Shadowstormprime said:

That is super interesting to hear about Shield! I haven’t read about those issues before… seems like less of a game breaking thing and more of an annoyance?

It absolutely is just an annoyance and I really dislike adjusting for it!

[Warboss]

14 hours ago, Shadowstormprime said:

This is very helpful thanks! It is so funny because I posted on Reddit as well and, while Dark/Elec seems like it’s getting the most support here, it hasn’t gotten a SINGLE vote in there 😂

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/s/lGN8fugEuH
 

I see you do a ton of Tanker stuff @Warboss! Seems like, in your opinion one they are all fully built out, Elec/DM might be the lowest performer. Dark/Elec and Shield/DM would be close, with shield probably edging it a bit but Dark/Elec probably fitting the best thematically?

 

For me I think that's true. I used to run a lot a Electric Tanks when the set first came out. I haven't really figured it out here. Maybe some will post a build for you. For me though, Elect seems to drop pretty quickly once stuck into the main combat (unless you do a sapping build).

[Parabola]

Dark/elec for style, shield/dark for power. I don't get on with elec armour.

[Shadowstormprime]

33 minutes ago, Warboss said:

 

For me I think that's true. I used to run a lot an Electric Tanks when the set first came out. I haven't really figured it out here. Maybe some will post a build for you. For me though, Elect seems to drop pretty quickly once stuck into the main combat (unless you do a sapping build).

I remember back in ye olden days (live) Elec/Elec tankers filling that unique niche of just sapping anyone. Not sure if that is still a viable tactic in this day and age.

[Warboss]

9 minutes ago, Shadowstormprime said:

I remember back in ye olden days (live) Elec/Elec tankers filling that unique niche of just sapping anyone. Not sure if that is still a viable tactic in this day and age.

 

Correctly slotted it takes about two applications and if you slot one End Mod in the Lightning Field you can keep most things drained.

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

You would get better mileage out of an epic AoE! The best ones (Dark Obliteration, Fire Ball) have the same radius, are ranged, and still have max proc chances while recharging three times as quickly!

 

It absolutely is just an annoyance and I really dislike adjusting for it!

This is interesting. I took both end recovers on mine, but it might be overkill. I'm gonna play with mids and see what else I can come up with to improve. Currently have Char, could grab Fireball instead. Gloom/Dark Obliteration fit thematically though.

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, StriderIV said:

This is interesting. I took both end recovers on mine, but it might be overkill. I'm gonna play with mids and see what else I can come up with to improve. Currently have Char, could grab Fireball instead. Gloom/Dark Obliteration fit thematically though.

Typically I go the fireball route if I'm going to reach for melt armor. Otherwise gloom, dark oblit and darkest night are hard to beat. My current tank project is stone/axe/dark to get tar patch, but I have an annihilation in nightfall as well for more -res.

[Warshades]

9 hours ago, Shadowstormprime said:

I remember back in ye olden days (live) Elec/Elec tankers filling that unique niche of just sapping anyone. Not sure if that is still a viable tactic in this day and age.

 

The bigger issue for any melee char that is attempting to end sap enemies is keeping them from recovering endurance. Enemies need very little endurance to activate attacks so even if you sap all endurance, if you don't apply and keep -rec debuffs then they will still launch attacks (though may be delayed by a second for them to get a tic of end recovery). Elec/elec can definitely keep a single target sapped since a lot of the /elec melee attacks apply -rec, but they aren't as good doing so against mobs. Even Mu patron AoEs only provide a chance to apply -rec to enemies.

 

I would say that if you want to play a sapper, your best option would be a Sentinel, Defender, Corrupter, or Blaster with electric blast. Sentinels can take it to another level as in addition to Short Circuit, which is one of the best end draining powers in the game, they can also pair it with a secondary like /electric armor to get Power Sink as well. They also apply guaranteed -rec debuffs with their primary AoE attacks like Ball of Lightning/Thunderous Blast to be able to more easily keep entire mobs sapped.

 

Now in terms of how relevant this is when minions and even lieuts die very quickly is another discussion, but as Warboss said you'd need at least 2 applications of power sink which isn't very practical for end draining large groups due to the recharge and not having access to another large -end AoE power. Slotted for some end mod, or musculature radial alpha, may get you close if you take Fences and Ball of Lightning to combine with Power Sink. Personally, I would stick to the ranged ATs if you're trying to make a sapper as a style and focus of play and mitigation.

[Nemu]

I would make an Elec/Staff/Mu with whirlwind to SPIN and SAP. Honestly any attack set with reliable AoE knockdown will work in assisting with buying you enough time to sap, but when's the last time you used whirlwind? Come join the Church of SPIN.

 

Gonna counter Betty's take on Dark/Elec and the prevailing damage oriented meta. This game accords players enough cushion to make/copy really bad builds (like so bad I'd throw up in my mouth twice) or explore off the beaten path. Gimmicky builds can be both viable and fun. When you've made your 10th or 20th procced out or softcapped/resist capped character, it may be a breath of fresh air to do something totally different. Here are some examples:
 

 

My Church of SPIN devotees:

Princess Spinaroonie i5 p27 RoP Uber Recharge.mbd

 

Hover blasting scrapper?

 

 

Edited February 16 by Nemu

[Erratic1]

Elec/DM has two endurance drain/recovery powers, two heals, and +Damage. It was beastly good on just SOs for a Brute back on Live (had one). On a Tanker, it should be plenty good. But really, it is going to be hard to make an utterly suck Tanker regardless of what you do.

[hakurr]

i would go Dark Armor / Electric Melee i have always loved dark armor from the early days of COH when it was not as popular. i took my Dark Armor / Battle Axe tanker and converted it to Electric Melee you can see below. you have a self heal that heals for about 1k health per enemy that it hits and with +3 enemies has 124% accuracy. with scaling resistance it has 90%+ Resistance to S/L/F/C/N/P and  it is also sitting at 40% defense on S/L and 47% on Melee i run with Agility and Melee Incarnates that push defense up to 42% + on all defenses and run Ageless for the debuff resistance. As far as endurance it is a pain till you get to 50 and start getting your incarnates but after that i never run out i do have conserve power but don't find i need it once i got agility up to the 45% endurance discount. not sure on the electric melee side seeing i converted this from battle axe but that can be played around with to fit the needs. i will say Dark Armor can be 1 of the finest sets to play but it is very expensive to get it all tricked out. 

 

 

 

 

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Tanker - Dark Armor - Electric Melee.mbd

Edited Monday at 03:42 AM by hakurr

[Zect]

On 2/15/2025 at 3:05 AM, StriderIV said:

All this being said, I've picked the brains of many of the amazing builders I already mentioned, as well as some more of these geniuses who might be able to give some insights.

 

 

I will respond to you shortly, but first off, never call me a genius or any other such flattering term. I also recommend you do the same for other forumites. It contributes to inflated egos, and that is not healthy for anyone. Speak respectfully but normally, as equals.

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

 

I will respond to you shortly, but first off, never call me a genius or any other such flattering term. I also recommend you do the same for other forumites. It contributes to inflated egos, and that is not healthy for anyone. Speak respectfully but normally, as equals.

Hahahahaha alright, but that just rolled off the tongue easier than “people of moderately acceptable intelligence.” 😂

 

Edit: Not meant as a slide to anyone, I’ve learned/gained insight from every person I listed, whether I agreed with you or not!

Edited Monday at 04:04 AM by StriderIV