Let's buff Knockback

Waypoint · July 10, 2019

Knockback is the bane of any tanks existence. Especially one who runs auras that buff them, like with Willpower or Energy Aura.

justicebeliever · July 11, 2019

Knockback is the bane of any tanks existence. Especially one who runs auras that buff them, like with Willpower or Energy Aura.

I’ve been on many teams with many tanks, and I have always asked if the KB was causing issues, and I have yet to hear a complaint. KB, when used correctly can be an ally to the tank...point the mob in his direction, and then he can aggro it, pick off the boss from the tank, that much less damage he has to take. And I have noticed on many teams that one or two or five mobs break away from the tank and go after me or someone else squishy, you know they love KB since the tank couldn’t hold everybody

Sunsette · July 12, 2019

I'll be honest, I've avoided this topic because I think for a team game, you need to focus on adding control to a disruptive effect -- that is, make it less disruptive -- before you give it more advantages. Adding the advantages first only makes the use/not use debate sharper and more divided. But you directly responded to me and cited this topic so I got the feeling you wanted more feedback here.

So!

If I were going to add a rider effect to Knockback, it wouldn't be damage; that's the sort of consideration that, imo, should be the result of making knockback a side-effect of high smashing damage earlier in building the system -- not a post-release game patch. While Energy Blast is a little mediocre in damage, that can have all sorts of bad unintended effects in other powersets, and even in EB -- any noticeable amount to make it satisfying would be too strong.

What I would consider is a disorient effect equal to a fifth the magnitude of the knockback, for a number of seconds equal to double the magnitude of the Knockback.

Tornado (Storm Summoning, All): KB 12.46/Mag 2 Disorient, 25 sec.

Power Push (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 13.29/Mag 2 Disorient, 27 sec.

Energy Torrent (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 4.99/Mag 1 Disorient, 10 sec. (60% chance)

Nova (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 16.62/Mag 3 Disorient, 33 sec.

Two slotted for KB, these become:

Tornado (Storm Summoning, All): KB 21.18/Mag 4 Disorient, 42 sec.

Power Push (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 22.47/Mag 4 Disorient, 45 sec.

Energy Torrent (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 8.49/Mag 2 Disorient, 17 sec. (60% chance)

Nova (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 28.25/Mag 5 Disorient, 56 sec.

Numbers may need tweaking, and probably some sort of formulaic curve is better than a simple linear scale for turning KB Mag into Disorient Mag, but it would be a clear form of control this way.

Solarverse · July 12, 2019

Knockback is the bane of any tanks existence. Especially one who runs auras that buff them, like with Willpower or Energy Aura.

I’ve been on many teams with many tanks, and I have always asked if the KB was causing issues, and I have yet to hear a complaint. KB, when used correctly can be an ally to the tank...point the mob in his direction, and then he can aggro it, pick off the boss from the tank, that much less damage he has to take. And I have noticed on many teams that one or two or five mobs break away from the tank and go after me or someone else squishy, you know they love KB since the tank couldn’t hold everybody

Ding ding ding ding! Right again!

However, to be fair, there seems to be an influx of bad players who love Knock Back. We need somebody like you to write up a tutorial on it, help educate them. When you try and educate them in game, regardless of how nice you attempt to be, it is always taken as, "Don't tell me how to play the game!"

You would be a valued member of any team my Tank is driving the car of. We need more players with your knowledge of how to use KB properly in a team setting.

HelenCarnate · July 12, 2019

That would turn my KB support Defender into a huge damage boost for the team. Pop Sonic Repulsion on the tank and let him go to town.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

MC Hammer: Level 50 Magic Defender

Primary Power Set: Sonic Resonance

Secondary Power Set: Energy Blast

Power Pool: Speed

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Leadership

Power Pool: Fighting

Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Sonic Barrier

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(3) Reactive Armor - Endurance
(3) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(5) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
(7) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 1: Power Bolt

(A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage
(11) Superior Vigilant Assault - RechargeTime/PBAoE +Absorb
(13) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/RechargeTime

Level 2: Sonic Haven

(A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 4: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(11) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 6: Sonic Cage

(A) Accuracy IO
(13) Accuracy IO

Level 8: Energy Torrent

(A) Force Feedback - Damage/Knockback
(15) Force Feedback - Accuracy/Knockback
(15) Force Feedback - Recharge/Knockback
(31) Force Feedback - Recharge/Endurance
(31) Force Feedback - Damage/Endurance/Knockback
(33) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 10: Combat Jumping

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(33) Shield Wall - Defense
(33) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
(34) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance

Level 12: Sonic Dispersion

(A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
(34) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(36) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge

Level 14: Super Jump

(A) Empty

Level 16: Sniper Blast

(A) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage
(17) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Recharge
(17) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(19) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(19) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(21) Superior Defender's Bastion - Recharge/Chance for Minor PBAoE Heal

Level 18: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(36) Shield Wall - Defense
(37) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
(37) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

Level 20: Tactics

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
(21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
(23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
(25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
(25) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 22: Sonic Repulsion

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(27) Endurance Reduction IO
(27) Endurance Reduction IO
(29) Knockback Distance IO
(29) Knockback Distance IO
(31) Knockback Distance IO

Level 24: Aim

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 26: Clarity

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 28: Vengeance

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 30: Boxing

(A) Empty

Level 32: Tough

(A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
(48) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(50) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 35: Explosive Blast

(A) Force Feedback - Damage/Knockback
(37) Force Feedback - Accuracy/Knockback
(39) Force Feedback - Recharge/Knockback
(39) Force Feedback - Recharge/Endurance
(39) Force Feedback - Damage/Endurance/Knockback
(40) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 38: Nova

(A) Force Feedback - Damage/Knockback
(40) Force Feedback - Accuracy/Knockback
(40) Force Feedback - Recharge/Knockback
(42) Force Feedback - Recharge/Endurance
(42) Force Feedback - Damage/Endurance/Knockback
(42) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 41: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(43) Shield Wall - Defense
(43) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
(43) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

Level 44: Dark Embrace

(A) Reactive Armor - Endurance
(46) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(46) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 47: Power Boost

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(50) Recharge Reduction IO
(50) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 49: [Empty]

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Empty

Level 1: Vigilance

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift

(A) Empty

Level 2: Health

(A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
(45) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(46) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 2: Hurdle

(A) Empty

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(45) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
(45) Performance Shifter - EndMod

Level 50: Agility Core Paragon

Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany

Level 50: Support Core Embodiment

------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1490;684;1368;HEX;|
|78DA659449531A5110C7DFC020A2B81044DC5036414047C9724E955BA2919415AA7|
|2A5080C4B150ED400557A8B9AE59E43FC02592F396431A9A4924BBE4AAE59CEB94C|
|9AE93F689CA982DF7BFF9EEED7DDEFBDC9ECAFBBDFDC38BC2EA4E1B55ABED9CCADA|
|B25552BAABA23932F570B821E57662D7833BFB7A7EA4E9A4D755FC8ADB64B25255B|
|D7AA0572BA4793999EE94E5E2BAB45654353F5F2416E9502B73C5B5A45D555ADA57|
|40703BBF57A4DC93654B5E836873B6ABE51D5CA23DD09456A56AA8D2173BE592D57|
|5A649DDE68540BCA5A5DD7DB8D565DCF65EBED5A2E430BA8FAC104E5B740BF431BF|
|D499DDC0D8708D3202E0B5B049C65CA21F0B25D88B42CFAFC340FC8E2B4E36B3E86|
|4DACC8A66DE01AD39D661ED9105E18760971FBB04E3FE2F7237E989A66E75C247B4|
|A703CF098E238388EE49862CD0D7E229B936D0EE77D9BA90D1F8247CCD963F00133|
|F890394E8E2E5ED3EEF2496CDBE63A83B798A14D66C76590DF9507514B08B584504|
|B04B544824C3FC51FE2DCC490418FF84C514690EDC85B8E3CFA0E7CCFBCF4013C65|
|8E7D647A289A07D97A906D04D9469165748BE9A577BDD859EF33AE76EC39AA7E01B|
|E644EBC025F331F117CF0F585B8CB53173893F89FB3E017F2F5A3623F76EF316993|
|D026E13F46F94D439B462D1269016801B35B7652E650F11C7ABE8C9E2FA3E769F4F|
|C2BAD124667C33807519C8318CE410CE720867310C739F8469887EF3C7CE3F08DC3|
|3701DF047C13F09529C705E4B8804A92D895247625895DD927A4701F52A86709F52|
|CA19E65D4F3C32D8482FBA5A093E90BEC34C998917B1751988A485A94158B92B628|
|572CCA558BB263516ECBBD4F88B12BF7AEBB904CAB6B942E352BC6CF01B24AE7ADB|
|FCF149B14E2162DDEE5162E6D731B7E59BCFE9CF73AE14D587C0A3E61FE1D2720AB|
|132F8D91C3F7F0D9F81F56FAF616|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

justicebeliever · July 12, 2019

I’ve been on many teams with many tanks, and I have always asked if the KB was causing issues, and I have yet to hear a complaint. KB, when used correctly can be an ally to the tank...point the mob in his direction, and then he can aggro it, pick off the boss from the tank, that much less damage he has to take. And I have noticed on many teams that one or two or five mobs break away from the tank and go after me or someone else squishy, you know they love KB since the tank couldn’t hold everybody

Ding ding ding ding! Right again!

However, to be fair, there seems to be an influx of bad players who love Knock Back. We need somebody like you to write up a tutorial on it, help educate them. When you try and educate them in game, regardless of how nice you attempt to be, it is always taken as, "Don't tell me how to play the game!"

You would be a valued member of any team my Tank is driving the car of. We need more players with your knowledge of how to use KB properly in a team setting.

Thanks for the very kind words Solarverse...I appreciate it. Now to let you in on my dark secret...I am known for having quite a few forum posts, but here's how many topic's I've started: 0. Unbelievable right? Guys got an opinion on everything, but can't start a topic.

I may be inspired by your enthusiasm to break my streak however...

Galaxy Brain · July 12, 2019

I'll be honest, I've avoided this topic because I think for a team game, you need to focus on adding control to a disruptive effect -- that is, make it less disruptive -- before you give it more advantages. Adding the advantages first only makes the use/not use debate sharper and more divided. But you directly responded to me and cited this topic so I got the feeling you wanted more feedback here.

So!

If I were going to add a rider effect to Knockback, it wouldn't be damage; that's the sort of consideration that, imo, should be the result of making knockback a side-effect of high smashing damage earlier in building the system -- not a post-release game patch. While Energy Blast is a little mediocre in damage, that can have all sorts of bad unintended effects in other powersets, and even in EB -- any noticeable amount to make it satisfying would be too strong.

What I would consider is a disorient effect equal to a fifth the magnitude of the knockback, for a number of seconds equal to double the magnitude of the Knockback.

Tornado (Storm Summoning, All): KB 12.46/Mag 2 Disorient, 25 sec.

Power Push (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 13.29/Mag 2 Disorient, 27 sec.

Energy Torrent (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 4.99/Mag 1 Disorient, 10 sec. (60% chance)

Nova (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 16.62/Mag 3 Disorient, 33 sec.

Two slotted for KB, these become:

Tornado (Storm Summoning, All): KB 21.18/Mag 4 Disorient, 42 sec.

Power Push (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 22.47/Mag 4 Disorient, 45 sec.

Energy Torrent (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 8.49/Mag 2 Disorient, 17 sec. (60% chance)

Nova (Energy Blast, Blaster): KB 28.25/Mag 5 Disorient, 56 sec.

Numbers may need tweaking, and probably some sort of formulaic curve is better than a simple linear scale for turning KB Mag into Disorient Mag, but it would be a clear form of control this way.

This is a great, thematic take! You fling somebody through a wall, and they usually dont get right back up do they?

I also agree with Solarverse that there needs to be education on Knockback. However, I still beleive that it still does not match up to other control types for reasons listed earlier in this thread, and something like having it give a disorienting effect could do something nice.

Solarverse · July 13, 2019

I’ve been on many teams with many tanks, and I have always asked if the KB was causing issues, and I have yet to hear a complaint. KB, when used correctly can be an ally to the tank...point the mob in his direction, and then he can aggro it, pick off the boss from the tank, that much less damage he has to take. And I have noticed on many teams that one or two or five mobs break away from the tank and go after me or someone else squishy, you know they love KB since the tank couldn’t hold everybody

Ding ding ding ding! Right again!

However, to be fair, there seems to be an influx of bad players who love Knock Back. We need somebody like you to write up a tutorial on it, help educate them. When you try and educate them in game, regardless of how nice you attempt to be, it is always taken as, "Don't tell me how to play the game!"

You would be a valued member of any team my Tank is driving the car of. We need more players with your knowledge of how to use KB properly in a team setting.

Thanks for the very kind words Solarverse...I appreciate it. Now to let you in on my dark secret...I am known for having quite a few forum posts, but here's how many topic's I've started: 0. Unbelievable right? Guys got an opinion on everything, but can't start a topic.

I may be inspired by your enthusiasm to break my streak however...

Well then I can say that would be one hell of a starter post for you, a Guide to Knock Back in a Team Environment. :)

Sunsette · July 13, 2019

I actually have a small guide to Knockback in my Energy Sentinel Guide; if there's anything noteworthy that needs to be there that isn't, feel free to check it out and let me know.

HoundsTooth · July 14, 2019

Why not reduce knockback considerably? Instead of Energy Bolt knockbacking enemies 2 feet back, make it 2 inches. It's an easy fix. IIRC, knockback is number attached to a power. If the number is positive you have knockback and knockdown if it's negative. Cut this number in half for all knockback powers.

justicebeliever · July 14, 2019

Why not reduce knockback considerably? Instead of Energy Bolt knockbacking enemies 2 feet back, make it 2 inches. It's an easy fix. IIRC, knockback is number attached to a power. If the number is positive you have knockback and knockdown if it's negative. Cut this number in half for all knockback powers.

That would essential be knockdown, which is just a lower magnitude of Knockback.

We need to separate the usage of the power, from the power itself. First, most of your min/maxers and vocal critics are forum posters, so common perception of KB is different than what we see in the forums. I have never, ever in 8+ years of play been kicked for using KB...

And because I solo alot, KB is one of the most useful powers to have for soloing anything other than a heavy defense/resist set. So I want knockback around and i would /jranger any attempt to do so.

kelly Rocket · July 14, 2019

Why not reduce knockback considerably? Instead of Energy Bolt knockbacking enemies 2 feet back, make it 2 inches. It's an easy fix. IIRC, knockback is number attached to a power. If the number is positive you have knockback and knockdown if it's negative. Cut this number in half for all knockback powers.

That would essential be knockdown, which is just a lower magnitude of Knockback.

We need to separate the usage of the power, from the power itself. First, most of your min/maxers and vocal critics are forum posters, so common perception of KB is different than what we see in the forums. I have never, ever in 8+ years of play been kicked for using KB...

And because I solo alot, KB is one of the most useful powers to have for soloing anything other than a heavy defense/resist set. So I want knockback around and i would /jranger any attempt to do so.

Unfortunately, for every competent user of knockback there are 10 or a hundred horrible, awful players who just blow enemies in all directions and won't stop when asked.

So personally I'd rather see it removed from the game, or allow team leaders to have a toggle that turns all knockback into knockdown or knockup.

justicebeliever · July 14, 2019

Why not reduce knockback considerably? Instead of Energy Bolt knockbacking enemies 2 feet back, make it 2 inches. It's an easy fix. IIRC, knockback is number attached to a power. If the number is positive you have knockback and knockdown if it's negative. Cut this number in half for all knockback powers.

That would essential be knockdown, which is just a lower magnitude of Knockback.

We need to separate the usage of the power, from the power itself. First, most of your min/maxers and vocal critics are forum posters, so common perception of KB is different than what we see in the forums. I have never, ever in 8+ years of play been kicked for using KB...

And because I solo alot, KB is one of the most useful powers to have for soloing anything other than a heavy defense/resist set. So I want knockback around and i would /jranger any attempt to do so.

Unfortunately, for every competent user of knockback there are 10 or a hundred horrible, awful players who just blow enemies in all directions and won't stop when asked.

So personally I'd rather see it removed from the game, or allow team leaders to have a toggle that turns all knockback into knockdown or knockup.

Well I sometimes think scrappers just run amok grabbing more aggro than they or the team can handle, which is super annoying...so can we eliminate them as well? Or at least give the team leader control of their movement?

And tanks who insist every sit around on their butts while they do their thing...Makes me mad...So let's throw them in garbage can or give the team leader the ability to reduce their defenses/resistance...

And if I had a nickel for everytime a masterminds pet's caused more problems for the team...I'd have at least a roll of nickels...So dump pets, or let the team leader turn them off

Etc, Etc, Etc...

There are bad players of every stripe. There are players who are great at the mechanics of the game, and are just jerks as well (I am NOT SUGGESTING at all this you...this is not a personal attack). There are really fun players who keep me in stitches the whole mission, and spend more time typing than doing, well anything...

Your suggestion is a bad direction to go...I am absolutely not willing to give a team leader control of my abilities, in any circumstance...and seriously, would you?

And for every teammate misusing Knockbock, there is a solo player depending on it, who would otherwise not be able to solo at all. So I stand by /jrangering anything that involves removing what is an essential part of knockback.

Can we improve Knockback without eliminating it? I'm sure we can...Sunsette did a great example here. Check it out...if it is better than how KB works now give it a +1...

kelly Rocket · July 14, 2019

Why not reduce knockback considerably? Instead of Energy Bolt knockbacking enemies 2 feet back, make it 2 inches. It's an easy fix. IIRC, knockback is number attached to a power. If the number is positive you have knockback and knockdown if it's negative. Cut this number in half for all knockback powers.

That would essential be knockdown, which is just a lower magnitude of Knockback.

We need to separate the usage of the power, from the power itself. First, most of your min/maxers and vocal critics are forum posters, so common perception of KB is different than what we see in the forums. I have never, ever in 8+ years of play been kicked for using KB...

And because I solo alot, KB is one of the most useful powers to have for soloing anything other than a heavy defense/resist set. So I want knockback around and i would /jranger any attempt to do so.

Unfortunately, for every competent user of knockback there are 10 or a hundred horrible, awful players who just blow enemies in all directions and won't stop when asked.

So personally I'd rather see it removed from the game, or allow team leaders to have a toggle that turns all knockback into knockdown or knockup.

Well I sometimes think scrappers just run amok grabbing more aggro than they or the team can handle, which is super annoying...so can we eliminate them as well? Or at least give the team leader control of their movement?

And tanks who insist every sit around on their butts while they do their thing...Makes me mad...So let's throw them in garbage can or give the team leader the ability to reduce their defenses/resistance...

And if I had a nickel for everytime a masterminds pet's caused more problems for the team...I'd have at least a roll of nickels...So dump pets, or let the team leader turn them off

Etc, Etc, Etc...

There are bad players of every stripe. There are players who are great at the mechanics of the game, and are just jerks as well (I am NOT SUGGESTING at all this you...this is not a personal attack). There are really fun players who keep me in stitches the whole mission, and spend more time typing than doing, well anything...

Your suggestion is a bad direction to go...I am absolutely not willing to give a team leader control of my abilities, in any circumstance...and seriously, would you?

And for every teammate misusing Knockbock, there is a solo player depending on it, who would otherwise not be able to solo at all. So I stand by /jrangering anything that involves removing what is an essential part of knockback.

Can we improve Knockback without eliminating it? I'm sure we can...Sunsette did a great example here. Check it out...if it is better than how KB works now give it a +1...

Your counterexamples don't really work, because the problem with Knockback is there are FAR MORE players who are bad with it, than players who are good with it. It's not a problem of "Once in a while I run into a bad scrapper" it's a problem of "Literally 90% of Energy Blasters and Peacebringers I encounter are absolutely horrible and don't know how to play well with a team".

And my suggested change would not hurt solo players at all, at least, the team leader control thing.

And yes, I'd be fine with letting the team leader make decisions about what powers are allowed to do what on their team. They're the team leader. If you don't like how they're running their team, you go find another team.

Sunsette · July 14, 2019

The problem with your suggestion is that it's just going to highlight the issues and polarize them further. Currently I've had people not even -realize- I'm an energy blast user because I keep things under control so well. You're going to have people just flip that setting on and then expect it to always be on when they always do group content -- and more people will throw a fit if it's any other way, as that becomes the new status quo.

If the group leader is that allergic to KB now, they have a right to say that up front. But we're setting a bad precedent the moment a group leader can outright shut off other people's abilities. It wouldn't impact my own abilities very much because of how I choose to contain my KBs but I've got to object to it entirely on principle.

justicebeliever · July 14, 2019

The problem with your suggestion is that it's just going to highlight the issues and polarize them further. Currently I've had people not even -realize- I'm an energy blast user because I keep things under control so well. You're going to have people just flip that setting on and then expect it to always be on when they always do group content -- and more people will throw a fit if it's any other way, as that becomes the new status quo.

If the group leader is that allergic to KB now, they have a right to say that up front. But we're setting a bad precedent the moment a group leader can outright shut off other people's abilities. It wouldn't impact my own abilities very much because of how I choose to contain my KBs but I've got to object to it entirely on principle.

That's exactly what I was trying to say, but with less drama and more succinctly. The team leader has a choice on WHO is on their team - that's 100% their decision. The team leader has the ability to kick me from their team (it's very easy to), that's 100% their decision. They do NOT have a choice on how I choose to play the game...

kelly Rocket · July 15, 2019

Sorry, but I don't see the difference.

Team leader kicks you for not doing what he wants.

You kick yourself because team leader enforces doing what he wants.

End result is the same. With less frustration along the way.

Sunsette · July 15, 2019

Sorry, but I don't see the difference.

Team leader kicks you for not doing what he wants.

You kick yourself because team leader enforces doing what he wants.

End result is the same. With less frustration along the way.

You can't see it because you hate knockback so you're primed to think in that condition. I've had very few people ever bring it up at all, and when >I< do I am usually told not to worry about it; some powers knockback, that's just part of the game. I hear this from people ranging from casual people arriving from other MMOs to people who have insane badge counts already that run super-smooth speed iTrials. But if it's something that someone can just toggle on at will, then they will. And they'll expect all gameplay to work like that. And suddenly if you want your powers to work like normal, you're the one asking to change the status quo.

kelly Rocket · July 15, 2019

Sorry, but I don't see the difference.

Team leader kicks you for not doing what he wants.

You kick yourself because team leader enforces doing what he wants.

End result is the same. With less frustration along the way.

You can't see it because you hate knockback so you're primed to think in that condition. I've had very few people ever bring it up at all, and when >I< do I am usually told not to worry about it; some powers knockback, that's just part of the game. I hear this from people ranging from casual people arriving from other MMOs to people who have insane badge counts already that run super-smooth speed iTrials. But if it's something that someone can just toggle on at will, then they will. And they'll expect all gameplay to work like that. And suddenly if you want your powers to work like normal, you're the one asking to change the status quo.

Sorry, but so what?

You don't hear complaints because you use knockback well. Congratulations, welcome to the tiny minority of people who do so.

That being the case though, having your knockback converted to knockdown wouldn't really hurt you on teams, so who cares?

The only people who would be heavily effected are the majority of knockback happy morons who can't use it properly. And even they aren't being hurt by it, except maybe their feelings. ::)

justicebeliever · July 15, 2019

Sorry, but I don't see the difference.

Team leader kicks you for not doing what he wants.

You kick yourself because team leader enforces doing what he wants.

End result is the same. With less frustration along the way.

You don’t see the difference, fair enough. But then we don’t need the change either, since the team leader already has the power to kick me. So why waste development effort on something I don’t see as fundamentally broken and you already have a solution for.

Ozryk · July 15, 2019

Knockback is fine. It's better than fine, it's great. A 2-second soft crowd control is amazing, considering it's available without profound investment in features other than player damage and survivability. The main problem with knockback isn't the mechanic, it's the selfish attitudes of the player-base, mainly the melee players who throw a tantrum because they have to move a couple of feet to re-acquire melee range.

Galaxy Brain · July 15, 2019

Knockback is fine. It's better than fine, it's great. A 2-second soft crowd control is amazing, considering it's available without profound investment in features other than player damage and survivability. The main problem with knockback isn't the mechanic, it's the selfish attitudes of the player-base, mainly the melee players who throw a tantrum because they have to move a couple of feet to re-acquire melee range.

Knockdown and Knockup offer the exact same soft control without pushing targets away from power range. I dont specify melee either since many effects such as placed debuffs or AoE controls can miss a target or have a target leave the effect if they get pushed around.

Frosticus · July 15, 2019

Meh sometimes you get stuck with people who use knockback poorly. I either just adjust or move on to a different team. As much as I personally min/max, while I'm playing I don't fret about xp/min really, or else I'd be on a farm.

If a stormy shows up and ruins my fun then I just move on to another team. I can't control other people or tell them how to have fun, I can only ensure those things for me. The reality is knockback can be a lot of fun for the user. I love flinging things all over the place with my grav troller, it feels super powerful.

So i'd throw the whole kitchen sink at knockback

-chance for minor -res (weakened armor from impact)

-chance for slow (injured leg)

-chance for disorient (hit head against wall)

-tiny chance for confuse

And i'd throw a visual over their head (maybe crippled haha) just like so many other powers get in the game like domination, overpower, impact, critical, etc

Up the % based on kb mag. Obviously not huge numbers, but enough to see it working.

kelly Rocket · July 15, 2019

Knockback is fine. It's better than fine, it's great. A 2-second soft crowd control is amazing, considering it's available without profound investment in features other than player damage and survivability. The main problem with knockback isn't the mechanic, it's the selfish attitudes of the player-base, mainly the melee players who throw a tantrum because they have to move a couple of feet to re-acquire melee range.

I don't like knockback.

It makes me angry.

I feel my build choices are invalidated when knockback is played poorly.

Sometimes unskilled knockback makes the game harder to play for everyone.

Often, I choose to leave a team when things aren't going well because of knockback.

[Edited for 'niceness' -- GM Fiddleback]

(There's no need to be actively hostile to people.)

Indystruck · July 15, 2019

that above post is a big yikes

Edited February 1 by Indystruck

Sign In

Let's buff Knockback

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in