Cut the filler from the Synapse TF (spoilers)

[Psi-bolt]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

The problem with some of the "longer" TFs (remember, their original concept was to be run over a few evenings) is that they lack variety. Synapse and Citadel are both very guilty of this. It's the same enemy group, largely the same maps and it becomes uninteresting. There's nothing there to capture the imagination once you're three missions in. Sure you get occasional "interludes" such as Long Tom and Babbage but the rest is relentless clockwork.

 

Changing it up a bit would be a very welcome relief and make it seem more engaging.

 

Agreed wholeheartedly.  I think this is why both the reconstituted Positron TFs and Yin are so much better.  Positron has always been about the three villain groups designs on the dam and that changes it up in both parts.   With Yin, the break with the Council getting involved for...reasons is a nice interlude.  

[golstat2003]

Positron was made into parts one and two years ago no? Not saying they should do that here, but there is precedent for them making TFs not as long.

[kelika2]

ask for global accolades for all your alts once you get it and leave one of the last good exp task forces alone

 

 

On 6/25/2025 at 3:28 PM, Skyhawke said:

I've always thought that Blue Steel should give the Clockwork King TF, Manticore take the Council one, Synapse goes after Crey and have Citadel as a trainer in Galaxy (now the west side of Atlas) instead of the Back Alley Brawler and have BAB as the trainer in KIngs Row. At least from a lore standpoint. 

we need to stop looking at blue steel as a good guy, motherfucker assaulted a child almost to death out of pure raw anger.  blue steel put the clock king in that erector set because he couldnt control his powers

[lemming]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

Positron was made into parts one and two years ago no? Not saying they should do that here, but there is precedent for them making TFs not as long.

It was done in live.   So, try around 15 years ago.

[Psi-bolt]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

ask for global accolades for all your alts once you get it and leave one of the last good exp task forces alone

 

That's not what I'm asking for.  I'm asking specifically for the TF to be shortened.   I feel this way for the Shadow Shard TFs as well.  As I have stated multiple times in the thread, I think TFs get the most engagement when they are 4-6 missions.  A global accolade would greatly reduce the number of runs of Synapse.  I want people to do Synapse.   I just want Synapse to not have random filler.   

 

As for your comment about "good exp task forces,"  I guess I don't understand this.   By what metric are we saying that Synapse is "good exp."  The best exp TF for that level range is probably Positron 2.  Two zones with most occurring in Faultline.  Still have clockwork, but you have Lost, Vahz, and CoT as well.  Shorter so you can crank up the difficulty without it taking two hours.   Once you cross into level 20, Yin beats Synapse on exp per time spent by a lot given it occurs all in IP.

 

[kelika2]

20 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

That's not what I'm asking for.  I'm asking specifically for the TF to be shortened.   I feel this way for the Shadow Shard TFs as well.  As I have stated multiple times in the thread, I think TFs get the most engagement when they are 4-6 missions.  A global accolade would greatly reduce the number of runs of Synapse.  I want people to do Synapse.   I just want Synapse to not have random filler.   

 

As for your comment about "good exp task forces,"  I guess I don't understand this.   By what metric are we saying that Synapse is "good exp."  The best exp TF for that level range is probably Positron 2.  Two zones with most occurring in Faultline.  Still have clockwork, but you have Lost, Vahz, and CoT as well.  Shorter so you can crank up the difficulty without it taking two hours.   Once you cross into level 20, Yin beats Synapse on exp per time spent by a lot given it occurs all in IP.

 

honestly you should be more angry about citadel being on the same level and worse maps or numina for being like 80% no exp

 

yeah synapes is long but its not the task forces fault.  so many people go in with shit builds.  how many level 50s do you see at that level with one or two attacks?  how many newbies with low-aoe potential characters also just hop in?  or how about some sets with their aoes later in the characters life?

 

but the natural flow of your thoughts is you want the carrot but you hate the stick, there is no way in hell that you JUST want this to be shortened because when your next mental roadblock is citadel with mission maps all over the place so badly that some groups encourage having TT you will make a thread for that too.  and why require both posi tfs?  just one should do

 

anyways the thought after that is do it once and use the START vendor for future alts accolades, but even then why make the trip to the vendor?

 

speed is killing the game

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

Agreed wholeheartedly.  I think this is why both the reconstituted Positron TFs and Yin are so much better.  Positron has always been about the three villain groups designs on the dam and that changes it up in both parts.   With Yin, the break with the Council getting involved for...reasons is a nice interlude.  

 

I loathe Penny Yin's TF as a replacement for Sister Psyche's... but that's more due to the horrible writing that got us to that point. As a stand-alone TF Penny's is ok. I think the original Sister P TF was ok other than it suffered from the same thing as some of the other TFs; overly long, lacking in variety and poor storytelling.

 

Of course all the original TFs were written when one of the biggest issues in the game was limited content and so taking time out of the game (remember, we had to run everywhere until level 14 and these days you can get to 50 quicker than you can get to 14 then.) Hunt missions were far more common. That's an indirect critique of the original Devs, the game was still good they just couldn't have the content we have now.

 

Synapse needs a lot of work to bring it up to par, including a whole retelling/work of his whiny-arsed story. Perhaps then we'd get a TF worthy of the name.

[Kalikamata]

Come on over to Torchbearer tonight for Saturday Night Synapse at 8pm ET. We have 2 full leagues that run the TF. And then 2 more leagues that join in 90 minutes later to help us corral the Babbages so we can defeat them all together. It takes about 2 and a half hours, but no one complains about the time or the missions... maybe sometimes the maps 😜. 

 

But honestly, you have to have patience. If you have none, this is not the event for you. 

[tidge]

FWIW, I find the Synapse TF one of the easiest to solo with a sub-50 character... although some ATs will benefit from a summons like a Shivan.

 

As for the content, I agree that it is a hot mess. I'll suggest some of the following:

 

1) Reduce the number of "defeat alls"

 

These really don't contribute to the story-telling IMO. I'd keep the first "Station is over-run!", and then leverage some combination of defeat named bosses and glowies to allow for some speed. In particular, I think the Clockwork King should have one mission where he has created a number of named bosses that mirror Chess pieces, basically showing off that he's a geek at heart.

 

2) Replace all the open-world (Steel Canyon) stuff with an instanced map of Steel Canyon.

 

This can include requiring specific defeats, and "search"... and can spawn Bertha in mission.

 

3) Bring in Blue Steel as an NPC

 

It isn't real obvious what the link is between Blue Steel and Clockwork King, so I kinda would like a mission in the TF that shows the animosity between them

 

 

[Ghost]

Devs should eliminate all the Kill All missions.

Then figure out a way to set the reward merits to be based off how long you spend on the TF.

The faster you go through, the less merits upon completion.

The longer you take, the more you get (with the max being whatever it is right now).

 

 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

That would lead to people starting the TF, getting lunch or taking a nap, then coming back to speed it to get maximum merits in least amount of time.

[Ghost]

4 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

That would lead to people starting the TF, getting lunch or taking a nap, then coming back to speed it to get maximum merits in least amount of time.

Damn you!

 

Okay, even better suggestion - if you feel it’s too long, skip TF.

 

 

 

[ThatGuyCDude]

On 6/23/2025 at 12:25 PM, Psi-bolt said:

That's how it stands now.  There is a lot of filler even in the story.  The first mission isn't described as a defeat all and I think if it were instead an investigation mission or a Boss room kill it would be better.  Next, I think you could combine all the substations into one mission.  There is no story based reason it has to be three missions.   That could eliminate 2 more defeat all missions.   The last defeat all in the abandoned office is likewise filler.  It is not the headquarters, it's just a lead that turned out to be nothing.   Getting rid of that would reduce another mission.  Perhaps eliminate the first patrol and have the second one lead to Bertha.

Rather than reduce the number of missions, what if they were made more interesting with the prospect (but not necessarily the guarantee) of faster completion?  The problem with Defeat All--explicitly with the Clockwork--is that inevitably one of their gears will hide beyond a box and pester the team as they sweep over and over to find it.

What if...

• The three powerstations were "Rescue <X> hostages" goals (NOT "escort to door", but "defeat the group attacking them", like how the later warehouse mission works)?  The first being city workers, the second Arachnos Agents who were plotting to detonate a bomb, and the third being Crey employees who were on-site for... unclear reasons (laying groundwork to distrust them in later zones and task forces).  5-6 hostages are going to be spread out enough in those maps that it's still reasonable for experience-hunting teams to clear the building, without the added frustration of missing ONE spawn and being stuck in the mission.
• The abandoned office had crates full of clockwork parts that needed to be destroyed in order to hinder their production?  Again, 5-6 crates to locate throughout the map would leave sweeping as a plausible strategy, while making stealth or divide and conquer a viable option and again bypassing the frustration of missing a single Cog or Sprocket.  Crates have the added spice of exploding on destruction, which makes the situation dangerous if the players haven't eliminated the enemies around them before trashing the box.

Citadel could certainly benefit from that same kind of rework approach, although Council don't leave danging minion spawns like the Clockwork do.

[Voltor]

Synapse, Citadel, Numina all 4 shadow shard TF's could use an overhaul

 

I've been trying some design ideas I had in the AE in test mode. 

[Glorificus]

Agreed. Especially Numina.  If they could make the hunt missions perhaps all concurrent, instead of consecutive, maybe that could help?

 

Synpase I find actually less annoying than Numina.

[Wravis]

They could go the traditional Homecoming Team route and make all the other TFs longer and worse to match, rather than making the bad thing better.

[Snarky]

On 6/23/2025 at 10:25 AM, Psi-bolt said:

Currently, the Synapse Task Force has 10 door missions, five of which require you to defeat all enemies.   The remaining ones include 4 Boss room fights (Bertha, Long Tom, Clockwork Lord, and Clockwork King) and one rescue the captives.   Most of this is just filler and the TF could be pared down without losing much, if any, of the story.

 

I have great faith in the developers' ability to rewrite this TF, but I would offer the following.  It seems that the TF is in two parts: 

 

• Part 1 is foiling the Clockwork's plan to divert Steel Canyon's power to the Clockwork King;
  • First defeat all to investigate what's happening;
  • Find out what the plan is from Positron;
  • Run around to three substations to stop Clockwork;
• Part 2 is tracking down and defeating the Clockwork King.
  • Having stopped the plot to divert Steel's power, Synapse wants you to Patrol and then track down King.
  • After the first patrol, you get sent to an office building to a defeat all because your scans showed a high concentration of Clockwork
  • After clearing out the building you get sent on another Patrol to find Headquarters which is unsuccessful.   Synapse then hears about a big Clockwork named Bertha going into an abandoned office building.  Upon defeating Bertha you find a distinctive Clockwork piece.  
  • Synapse sends you to the place the part comes from.  Upon defeating Long Tom and rescuing the Foreperson, he tells you that they sent the piece to only three locations.   
  • The remainder of the TF is going to those three warehouses where you first rescue hostages, defeat the Clockwork Lord and finally, the Clockwork King.  Babbage come over to play after the Lord.

 

That's how it stands now.  There is a lot of filler even in the story.  The first mission isn't described as a defeat all and I think if it were instead an investigation mission or a Boss room kill it would be better.  Next, I think you could combine all the substations into one mission.  There is no story based reason it has to be three missions.   That could eliminate 2 more defeat all missions.   The last defeat all in the abandoned office is likewise filler.  It is not the headquarters, it's just a lead that turned out to be nothing.   Getting rid of that would reduce another mission.  Perhaps eliminate the first patrol and have the second one lead to Bertha.    

 

For the remainder, Bertha is fine, but I would put the Foreman in Long Tom's mission into her room.  Then you can get the part and the info about the three warehouses in the same mission.   The rest of the TF could proceed as normal.  

 

That would leave it with one defeat all mission and six total missions.   Of course, the original could be in Ouroboros.    And yes, after running this three times this weekend, it's nearly driven me insane, but I still think folks would enjoy a snappier TF.  Reduce the merits accordingly.

I have suggested before, and I guess am doing so again, one simple solution.  
 

There are times where a team will encounter a “small map” on every kill all in Synapse.  This has a HUGE difference in TF length.  Same merits.  My suggestion is to hard code the TF for these small maps.  Just remove the random factor and pick the smallest map of the normal choices.  Suddenly the Synapse is not a slogathon. 

[Ukase]

On 6/26/2025 at 8:28 AM, Psi-bolt said:

but the teams running radio/paper missions are almost always available.

These teams offer nothing aside from the XP, and perhaps a temp power from a safeguard/mayhem. No merits. I don't think you'd get a prismatic, as I've not done any of these since the prismatics came out. 
The beauty of the TF is that every player gets paid, not just the team lead. 

I think if the easiest thing to do is nothing. Perhaps add a 20 reward merit bonus just for folks suffering through it, or alternatively, chop it half and have a Synapse 1 and 2. 

[skoryy]

You get tons of merits for a Quartermass and still nobody's doing it. Meanwhile, every day it seems someone's running the Posis and Pennys since they're relatively quick and still net you the same merits. I think that's where you'd want to Synapse and maybe the other TFs to go.  Four to six missions with some special trickery in the last one and everyone'll want to run them.

[Ghost]

13 hours ago, skoryy said:

You get tons of merits for a Quartermass and still nobody's doing it. Meanwhile, every day it seems someone's running the Posis and Pennys since they're relatively quick and still net you the same merits. I think that's where you'd want to Synapse and maybe the other TFs to go.  Four to six missions with some special trickery in the last one and everyone'll want to run them.

You’re right about Q - It seems like it’s only advertised when it’s the weekly.

Synapse on the other hand, is advertised daily on Exc.

 

I still don’t understand the need/want to shorten all the TFs.

Theres a few that can be done in under 30min, a few that push closer to 60.  

So what’s wrong with a couple averaging closer to 90min?

 

Some people enjoy a long session, and don’t want to see them removed from the WTF rotation.