What are advantages of scrapper over stalker?

[KadillTheFirst]

Like the title says. I initially assumed scrappers were the only class with inherent chance to critical due to their ability description. But after playing a stalker for a bit i realized they have a chance for random criticals as well. Looking it up on the wiki, it seems scrappers have 5%chance on the weakest enemy types and 10% on everything else while stalkers have 10%always and 100% with hide. So i was wondering what is the difference that makes it so stalkers aren't just better scrappers? I'm assuming there is one i just haven't figured it out yet.

[MunkiLord]

Scrappers have higher base and max hit points, which leads directly to better regen numbers and the ability to absorb more damage overall. And they also generally have more AoE attacks as Assassin's Strike quite frequently replace an AoE attack their sets.

[Gone]

Slight increase in durability (very slight, usually barely noticeable and particularly only on specific powersets) due to higher hp total.  Slightly better base damage. Some powersets have better translations for stalkers and some better for scrappers (Stalkers lose some AoE potential, scrappers don't have an Assassin Strike to fill single target attack chain, Stalker secondaries have to give up something for Hide and occasionally that means a good power although not always).

 

In a more practical sense, when I play both in game, Stalkers feel more powerful than scrappers now.  They seem virtually as durable and can control their crits, while outputting superior single target DPS.  In teams they are even better with their crit buff for being in a team and additional versatility due to Hide being available. Scrappers are still fine and the gap feels small, but I notice the difference.

 

People often quote playstyle being different, but the way Stalkers work now you should be playing them nearly identically to how you would play a scrapper, just with the ability to start a fight stronger through hide occasionally (not always, since with a fast moving team you should be just fast-attacking a crit out to start a fight instead of wasting time with a long cast assassin strike).

 

The AoE capacity of Scrapper Primaries is what I would consider the strongest reason to play them, especially in today's city of heroes which is all about AoEing a spawn down in seconds.  There are more scrapper answers for this than there are stalkers (Stalker Elec/Shield are insane though, since they have the AoE's, double telenuke AND a better single target attack chain than the scrapper equivalent). So generally if you want to primarily AoE, probably go Scrapper for most powersets.

 

Also, Titan Weapons wins, so scrapper?  Stalkers don't get Titan Weapons.

[marcussmythe]

Slight increase in durability (very slight, usually barely noticeable and particularly only on specific powersets) due to higher hp total.  Slightly better base damage. Some powersets have better translations for stalkers and some better for scrappers (Stalkers lose some AoE potential, scrappers don't have an Assassin Strike to fill single target attack chain, Stalker secondaries have to give up something for Hide and occasionally that means a good power although not always).

 

In a more practical sense, when I play both in game, Stalkers feel more powerful than scrappers now.  They seem virtually as durable and can control their crits, while outputting superior single target DPS.  In teams they are even better with their crit buff for being in a team and additional versatility due to Hide being available. Scrappers are still fine and the gap feels small, but I notice the difference.

 

People often quote playstyle being different, but the way Stalkers work now you should be playing them nearly identically to how you would play a scrapper, just with the ability to start a fight stronger through hide occasionally (not always, since with a fast moving team you should be just fast-attacking a crit out to start a fight instead of wasting time with a long cast assassin strike).

 

The AoE capacity of Scrapper Primaries is what I would consider the strongest reason to play them, especially in today's city of heroes which is all about AoEing a spawn down in seconds.  There are more scrapper answers for this than there are stalkers (Stalker Elec/Shield are insane though, since they have the AoE's, double telenuke AND a better single target attack chain than the scrapper equivalent). So generally if you want to primarily AoE, probably go Scrapper for most powersets.

 

Also, Titan Weapons wins, so scrapper?  Stalkers don't get Titan Weapons.

 

Bioarmor seems to provide greater buffs to Scrapper, as well.

 

That said, given the rehide ATO, I think Stalkers would be a better AT, -all other things being equal-. 

 

All other things are never equal.

 

For me, I look at the power sets that look cool/fun to play, and then see how those power sets get treated by the different ATs.

[MunkiLord]

Also Scrapper forums > all other forums. So there is that.

[Rathulfr]

Also, Titan Weapons wins, so scrapper?  Stalkers don't get Titan Weapons.

 

I picture a tiny WB cartoon character sneaking around with a ridiculously large mallet behind its back when I think of stalkers with titan weapons.

 

[Auroxis]

I'm surprised no one mentioned taunt auras yet. Mobs not running away from you is very useful.

 

Of course if they're dead they can't run away, but "your mileage may vary" as once said.

[jack_nomind]

I'm surprised no one mentioned taunt auras yet. Mobs not running away from you is very useful.

 

Most Scrapper secondaries don't have Taunt auras.  Bio does, I think WP does, maybe one or two more.

[MunkiLord]

I'm surprised no one mentioned taunt auras yet. Mobs not running away from you is very useful.

 

Most Scrapper secondaries don't have Taunt auras.  Bio does, I think WP does, maybe one or two more.

 

Shield does and I think Invul does as well, not sure if others do or not. Taunt auras have never played a factor for me when deciding whether or not to choose a secondary. The only character of mine I really wish had a taunt aura is my Archery/Temp Blaster because Provoke is terrible.

[Gobbledygook]

Also, Titan Weapons wins, so scrapper?  Stalkers don't get Titan Weapons.

 

I picture a tiny WB cartoon character sneaking around with a ridiculously large mallet behind its back when I think of stalkers with titan weapons.

+1 Inf for you, good sir.

[Rumors]

A small point, but Scrappers get Confront and Stalkers get Placate.  Most Scrappers don't want Confront, but if they want to Scrank, it lets them do so against hard targets without taking a pool choice.  The rest of the spawn, they can either use a Taunt aura or just take the alpha strike and let the team handle the rest.  Stalker tanks (Stankers?  Talkers?) have to dip into Presence.

 

Most Scrapper sets are also simpler to play effectively.  Get your attack chain going and you're done.  Stalkers have to do that and also keep track of Assassin Focus stacks to maximize damage.  They'll probably get a chain going that does it automatically, but things like recharge debuffs and moving between enemies and other stuff can throw it off.

 

Secondaries that utilize/interact with the Scrappers HP or HP Cap will tend to be a bit stronger, like Regen or Willpower, since they have bigger numbers to work with.  Other sets, like SR, the survivability difference will be a lot more marginal.  Scrappers also get a little more bang for their buck from Max HP Accolades and set bonuses, but this is a pretty small point.

 

 

Non-gameplay point, but lack of Hide means you can actually look at your own/other Scrappers costumes while Stalkers are only gonna be sorta visible except in combat most of the time.  This, IMO, is the most important point!  No sense in being awesome if you can't look good while doing it!

[MunkiLord]

Non-gameplay point, but lack of Hide means you can actually look at your own/other Scrappers costumes while Stalkers are only gonna be sorta visible except in combat most of the time.  This, IMO, is the most important point!  No sense in being awesome if you can't look good while doing it!

 

This normally isn't something that matters too much to me, but I have found myself caring more about that recently. It's the reason why I have shelved my Energy Aura Scrapper.

[KadillTheFirst]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. As a (former) min maxer in WoW, stuff like this interests me even if I'm not gonna be playing just to have the most optimal everything.

[Riverdusk]

Even on the single target focused set dark melee I prefer scrapper as I just love soul drain too much and stalkers lose that.  They also lose dark consumption.  For my DM/Shield in particular they also lose out on some defense (phalanx fighting).

 

My katana/ninjitsu would seem to be perfect to go stalker instead, but I'd miss my Lotus drops aoe and the "free" travel power I get in Shinobi, as well as once again the endurance management power.  In a way my katana/ninjitsu seems almost a scrapper/stalker hybrid anyway as I get an almost guaranteed crit to start every battle with the stealth strike huge crit bonus chance shinobi gives you.  And with the scrapper I can start the battle with a lotus drops and see a sea of crits on pretty much everyone it hits instead of just the crit on one target.

 

It really comes down to individual sets and what each get more than anything else to me.  I'd look at each combo you are considering to decide which would work better for you.  Personally so far though, I always seem to prefer the powers I get for scrapper over a stalker.

[Hyperstrike]

Scrappers deal higher damage overall and are more resilient to damage.

 

Stalkers are more like Melee-range Blasters with their damage front-loaded in the beginning of combat.  Think of Assassin's Strike as a "snipe".

[Ekimmak]

IMO, Stalkers are made out of paper mache. With a Claws/Regen scrapper, I can handle anything. With a stalker, I'm probably going to die if two mobs spawn close enough to each other that they'll notice when I come out of hide. Or if a LT spawns with +1 level. Or if an ambush triggers before I can recover from the pain of a current fight (especially if it was from an ambush).

 

Stalkers generate the same feeling of "I'm not strong enough to handle things on my own" that Defenders and Controllers have. Only here, it's not that they aren't damaging, it's that they take Blaster's fragility and burst, and put that in melee.

[Gone]

IMO, Stalkers are made out of paper mache. With a Claws/Regen scrapper, I can handle anything. With a stalker, I'm probably going to die if two mobs spawn close enough to each other that they'll notice when I come out of hide. Or if a LT spawns with +1 level. Or if an ambush triggers before I can recover from the pain of a current fight (especially if it was from an ambush).

 

Stalkers generate the same feeling of "I'm not strong enough to handle things on my own" that Defenders and Controllers have. Only here, it's not that they aren't damaging, it's that they take Blaster's fragility and burst, and put that in melee.

 

Stalkers have virtually the same defensive capability as a scrapper.  I suggest you try a different secondary for your next stalker if you're having trouble with regen, as Stalkers are defensively very competent.  Poorly built characters will fold under stress for either a scrapper or a stalker though (again since they have almost exactly the same defensive capabilities).

[Murcielago]

Scrappers get shield and stalkers don't.

[zarzu]

Scrappers get shield and stalkers don't.

 

Stalkers get it too  ;)

[oldskool]

IMO, Stalkers are made out of paper mache. With a Claws/Regen scrapper, I can handle anything. With a stalker, I'm probably going to die if two mobs spawn close enough to each other that they'll notice when I come out of hide. Or if a LT spawns with +1 level. Or if an ambush triggers before I can recover from the pain of a current fight (especially if it was from an ambush).

 

Stalkers generate the same feeling of "I'm not strong enough to handle things on my own" that Defenders and Controllers have. Only here, it's not that they aren't damaging, it's that they take Blaster's fragility and burst, and put that in melee.

 

May I ask, what game have you been playing?  (I do mean that playfully)

 

More specifically, what power combos of Defender/Controller are you talking about, and have you played a Stalker at all with the quality of life changes that were included? 

 

For Controllers, of which I have several, I have never felt like "I'm not strong enough to handle things on my own".  There comes a point when I look at teams and say "why am I bothering with these people".  Granted some power combos for Defenders and Controllers can be challenging solo, but by God a level 50 IO'ed Controller can be a beast.  Do they all finish 4/8 missions in seconds without Kinetics?  Nope.  However you can have an incredibly safe experience arresting targets.  Want to beat down Giant Monsters and AVs?  Controllers can do that too.  "I'm not strong enough to handle things on my own"... LOL indeed.

 

Stalkers can struggle in the low levels because Hide displaces a defense power and attacks are often a priority for a lot of players (myself included).  This means you don't start filling out defenses until 20's.  However, by the 30's when you start getting more slots your overall survival should be decent.  By end-game a Stalker should be sailing along far smoother than they did at level 10.  There should be no situations where you're dropping Hidden and feeling like a Blaster.  Not even as Regen, not by a long shot.  Shadow Meld alone makes any Stalker build very survivable in the 40+ range. 

 

- As to the original question, I agree with the basic breakdown others have stated throughout the thread.  Scrappers have higher base damage and better hit points.  Certain power sets have their own perks that Stalkers don't have (and vice versa, really).  Stalkers offer more control over combat flow and how they deal with critical hits.  They are different enough to me that you really have to ask yourself which style of play you like more vs just asking if one basically makes the other obsolete. Same goes for the argument of Brute vs Tanker, Defender vs Corruptor, yadda yadda. 

 

 

[Murcielago]

Scrappers get shield and stalkers don't.

 

Stalkers get it too  ;)

Since when???

[Auroxis]

Scrappers get shield and stalkers don't.

 

Stalkers get it too  ;)

Since when???

 

Since i25. Welcome to the absolutely disgusting world of elec/shield stalkers.

[Murcielago]

Scrappers get shield and stalkers don't.

 

Stalkers get it too  ;)

Since when???

 

Since i25. Welcome to the absolutely disgusting world of elec/shield stalkers.

I thought electric/shield was retarded on Scrappers. It's probably ridiculously OP on stalkers.

[Erratic1]

Scrappers get shield and stalkers don't.

 

Stalkers get it too  ;)

Since when???

 

Since i25. Welcome to the absolutely disgusting world of elec/shield stalkers.

I thought electric/shield was retarded on Scrappers. It's probably ridiculously OP on stalkers.

 

I thought you were all in favor of giving players choices and complete power proliferation.

 

Personally I'm waiting for Stalkers to get Titan Weapons.

[Without_Pause]

I'm surprised no one mentioned taunt auras yet. Mobs not running away from you is very useful.

 

Most Scrapper secondaries don't have Taunt auras.  Bio does, I think WP does, maybe one or two more.

 

Important note, mobs still run away. Taunt auras for brutes and tanks are better. If you like damage auras on your character, then go scrapper.

 

Stalkers generate the same feeling of "I'm not strong enough to handle things on my own" that Defenders and Controllers have.

 

You clearly haven't seen them solo GMs. My Ill/rad was soling on +4 before level 50 or IO sets. While damage was never a strong point, my Earth/storm was one of the strongest builds I have played. Rad/sonic is incredibly good.