powerset suggestion Proposed new powerset: Infernal Assault -- Where there's a whip there's a way

[Zepp]

Just wondering if someone could do the math on what this set would theoretically look like at a more granular level...

[Steampunkette]

The Damage Type and -Res would set it apart mechanically, but the visible difference is important for those involved in PvP, as well as providing an actual aesthetic incentive to choose it over another set.

 

My stance is that I am fine either way, I want my whip. However, I think the set I am currently proposing is the better way to go. I think the lack of range would be easier to sell it because of how powerful -Res can be.

 

The Demonic Hellfire attacks have a distinct graphic set from Fire Blast. You can KIND OF see it in this video:

 

 

The best way I can think of to describe it is Liquid Flame. More like the fire that is -on- the whip than the fire blast particle-storm. More distinct flame shapes moving around inside each other. Like dropping Lighter Fluid through a blow-torch.

[Ry]

I'm seeing a lot of people suggestion "Fire Sword" in here in the assault set and while thats all well and good, the devs would have to make an entirely new power with the Hellfire visuals for it to match, or mix older fire visuals with the newer ones which to me feels like a half measure, I propose this instead.

 

The Demon pets themselves such as the Ember Demon and the Fiery Demonling both have altered versions of fire powers visually, Flares, Fire Breath etc. Essentially just updated versions of fire blast. On top of that the powers those particular pets have can in fact use can be used by the player models, the animations and everything play out. I've tested such myself. Admittedly on a solo instance of the game but with enough tinkering I think it could be manageable, combining those powers with the whip from Demon Summoning could easily make the nine powers required for a Hellfire Blast or Hellfire Assault (with a Build Up added in) - I'd rather have that then in a set then throwing the newer whip visuals and the older fire powers together honestly, but thats me.

 

To set this apart from similar sets such as Fire Blast a -Resist passive could work, I do like the sound of that!

 

Anyways, whether or not the devs want to do this is entirely up to them, I appreciate the work they do and I admire the topic being discussed in general, keeps the community thriving :D

[Zepp]

The Damage Type and -Res would set it apart mechanically, but the visible difference is important for those involved in PvP, as well as providing an actual aesthetic incentive to choose it over another set.

 

My stance is that I am fine either way, I want my whip. However, I think the set I am currently proposing is the better way to go. I think the lack of range would be easier to sell it because of how powerful -Res can be.

 

The Demonic Hellfire attacks have a distinct graphic set from Fire Blast. You can KIND OF see it in this video:

 

 

The best way I can think of to describe it is Liquid Flame. More like the fire that is -on- the whip than the fire blast particle-storm. More distinct flame shapes moving around inside each other. Like dropping Lighter Fluid through a blow-torch.

 

I know what your talking about, but I think there may be a better way to get player access to that animation.

[Steampunkette]

The Damage Type and -Res would set it apart mechanically, but the visible difference is important for those involved in PvP, as well as providing an actual aesthetic incentive to choose it over another set.

 

My stance is that I am fine either way, I want my whip. However, I think the set I am currently proposing is the better way to go. I think the lack of range would be easier to sell it because of how powerful -Res can be.

 

The Demonic Hellfire attacks have a distinct graphic set from Fire Blast. You can KIND OF see it in this video:

 

 

The best way I can think of to describe it is Liquid Flame. More like the fire that is -on- the whip than the fire blast particle-storm. More distinct flame shapes moving around inside each other. Like dropping Lighter Fluid through a blow-torch.

 

I know what your talking about, but I think there may be a better way to get player access to that animation.

 

I'd rather have it in the Hellfire Assault set so that it matches the whip...

 

[plainguy]

Just wanted to say Great Idea regardless of how it would be done.

 

Maybe just give a player a choice at 20 to go in one direction or another ? Like they do with Arachnos Soldier or Widow

 

Again Great Idea regardless of the direction.

 

I made a petless Demon mastermind just for the whip attacks. Was defense capped.

[Zepp]

I made a petless Demon mastermind just for the whip attacks. Was defense capped.

 

You are not the only one...

[plainguy]

Love this thread would love to get more traction on it.

 

[Zepp]

On 7/13/2019 at 8:59 PM, Steampunkette said:

 

The Demonic Hellfire attacks have a distinct graphic set from Fire Blast . . . The best way I can think of to describe it is Liquid Flame. More like the fire that is -on- the whip than the fire blast particle-storm. More distinct flame shapes moving around inside each other. Like dropping Lighter Fluid through a blow-torch.

Have you gone over to Rebirth Test server and tried their version of this set? I think it is what you wanted. I would definitely support that set, although I think dropping two of their powers to use my proposed Fueling Flames and Summon Hellfire would be a better way to go...

[plainguy]

17 hours ago, Zepp said:

Have you gone over to Rebirth Test server and tried their version of this set? I think it is what you wanted. I would definitely support that set, although I think dropping two of their powers to use my proposed Fueling Flames and Summon Hellfire would be a better way to go...

I missed the understanding of this statement. 

 

Is there a new set they are working on in the Test server ? 

 

Or is Rebirth a new COH server that created this power set ? - NM seems Rebirth server is down.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by plainguy

[biostem]

1 minute ago, plainguy said:

I missed the understanding of this statement. 

 

Is there a new set they are working on in the Test server ? 

 

Or is Rebirth a new COH server that created this power set ?

"COH: Rebirth" is another distinct/separate private CoH server/group.

[Crysta Clear]

Maybe include Dark Blast attacks instead of Fire Blast. The whips can be the set's 'hellfire' portion, and the rest can be dark magick.

[daveyfiacre]

as yall were suggesting, fire would sort of feel out of placed and frankensteined together. like mentioned, i agree that the hellfire demons have plenty of attacks to pull from. here is my proposed Hellfire set, keeping animations pure and not relying on a sword, as whips are already the 'feature' weapon of the set... again, made from existing assets and powers, just tweaked a little, and obviously numbers adjusted to be comparable to other similar sets for the AT but still have something unique.

 

Hellfire Assault:

-Corruption [Ranged] -- Minor DMG(Fire), Foe DoT(Toxic), -Res

-Lash [Close] -- High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, Minor DoT(Toxic)

-Crack Whip  [close cone]-- Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, DoT(Toxic)

-Hellfire Aura -- Toggle PBAoE Minor Toxic Damage [demon hellfire aura fx]

-Build Up -- Self +DMG, +To-Hit

-Abyssal Strike -- Melee, High DMG(Fire), DoT(Toxic), Foe -DEF(All) [hellfire smash meelee animation with hellfire fx]

-Bind and Seal -- Ranged, Moderate DMG(Fire), DoT(Toxic), Foe Immobilize, -DEF(All), -SPD, -Jump, -Fly ***[using hell on earth whip animation]

-Living Hellfire -- PBAoE, Minor Damage, Summon Living Hellfire [4 temp pets simultaneous summon instead of over time]

-Hellfire Eruption -- PBAoE, High DMG(Fire), DoT(Toxic), Foe -DEF(All) [skinned from hellfire burst]

Edited September 12, 2019 by daveyfiacre
correction

[Zepp]

For reference, the Hellfire set in Rebirth is: (Reference - Posted August 30th)

Quote

 

·  Hellfire Assault Your powers are conjured from the depths of the netherworld and beyond. You wield demonic hellfires that serve as your tools of destruction. You are capable of manifesting infernal powers that act as long extensions of hellfire. These powers can tear down even the toughest of foes.

• Hellfire Flares Ranged, Minor DMG(Fire)
• Hellfire Smash Melee, High DMG(Smash/Toxic) Foe Knockdown
• Crack Whip Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, DoT(Toxic)
• Corruption Ranged, Minor DMG(Fire), Foe Minor DoT (Toxic), -Res
• Soul Searing Self +Toxic Damage on all attacks, +ToHit
• Hellfire Burst PBAoE, Moderate DoT(Toxic)
• Lash Close, High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, Minor DoT(Toxic)
• Hellfire Blaze Ranged Cone, Moderate DMG(Fire/Toxic), Foe -Res
• Wrath of Hell Ranged, Extreme DoT(Fire), Short Foe Hold, Foe -Res

 

Now, I placed the reference date to make it clear that any ideas in this thread that are similar to the Hellfire Assault set on Rebirth, but predate it, can not be considered infringement.
Furthermore, it is acceptable to take ideas and/or lessons from said set to help improve the proposals that have been made.

I am going to say, while @Steampunkette's suggestion of using:

On 7/13/2019 at 8:59 PM, Steampunkette said:

The Demonic Hellfire attacks have a distinct graphic set . . . The best way I can think of to describe it is Liquid Flame. More like the fire that is -on- the whip than the fire blast particle-storm. More distinct flame shapes moving around inside each other. Like dropping Lighter Fluid through a blow-torch.

was not my original choice, it is viable. And

7 hours ago, daveyfiacre said:

not relying on a sword, as whips are already the 'feature' weapon of the set...

does make sense.

That being said, I think there are some areas where my adapted proposal:

On 7/10/2019 at 2:26 PM, Zepp said:

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Hellfire Blade	Fire Sword	2	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)
Infernal Lash	Lash	4	Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hellfire Dervish	Fire Sword Circle	28	PBAoE, Moderate DMG (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic)
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	35	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Greater Hellfire Blade	Greater Fire Sword	38	Melee, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)

Hellfire's Wrath (which is very similar to Soul Searing (in the latter adaptation by Rebirth), and is better for this set than a pure build up. Also, using Fueling Flames (HoT/DoT) is good for the feel of the set. For the four whip animations, I think modifying Hell on Earth to a Patch (or untargeted summon) works better than trying to convert it into a regular attack (in the Rebirth version it just doesn't look right). That being said, replacing the fire sword animations with two melee single target and one melee multi-target attack based on fire with the hellfire graphics would be the step needed to update the set. Why two melee ST and one melee MT? Based on the design of other Assault sets, that is generally what is appropriate. The Rebirth version has only one Melee and one PBAoE, similar to @daveyfiacre, and the Fiery Assault set has one melee ST and two melee MT. So, there is room for debate, but the use of an aura strongly suggests a preference for moving into melee. 

So, there are two single target attacks from Fiery Melee that are not in Fiery Assault or Fire Control. They are Scorch and Cremate. Then there is one PBAoE that I found in Fire Manipulation/Fiery Aura, that could be used for the set. It is Burn. There is another PBAoE that fits the criteria, it is from Fire Blast (the T9). It is Inferno.

Take a look at the graphics for these four attacks and they could all be used. That being said, I think Scorch, Burn, and Inferno match the set the best. So, my updated proposal is:
 

---

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Helltouched	Scorch	2	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)
Infernal Lash	Lash	4	Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hell Unbound	Burn	28	Location PBAoE, Moderate DoT (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res Self +Res (Immobilize)
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	35	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Gates of Hell	Inferno	38	PBAoE, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res

---

 

Aside from the three new powers, the notable differences are that the T7 and T9 now have -Res, and the T7 also has immobilize resistance added. Thematically it has the feel of turning the whole battlefield into a hellscape through the use of Hell Unbound creating a patch and Summon Hellfire summoning, well, hellfires... Gates of Hell will also give some flashiness to it. Just wondering what everyone thinks...
 

[Zepp]

17 hours ago, Crysta Clear said:

Maybe include Dark Blast attacks instead of Fire Blast. The whips can be the set's 'hellfire' portion, and the rest can be dark magick.

That's an interesting idea, but there is already a Dark Assault set, so it may feel like it is encroaching on that set too much.

[Zepp]

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Helltouched	Scorch	2	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)
Infernal Lash	Lash	4	Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hell Unbound	Burn	28	Location PBAoE, Moderate DoT (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res Self +Res (Immobilize)
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	35	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Gates of Hell	Inferno	38	PBAoE, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res

[Crysta Clear]

Well, the other main option would be to duplicate animations and fill the whole set with whip attacks, some of which happen to look the same.

[Steampunkette]

Honestly... I feel like Corruption should be the Tier 2, the Ranged Component changed to a Melee component and it's range shrunk to match Lash. Make those three attacks the 'Melee' attacks of the set.

 

Then maybe give them the Flares/Fire Blast/Fire Ball in Hellfire Style with a Sentinel-Style range reduction. Longer Melee range, Shorter Ranged range.

 

That'd cover both 6 powers in the set and the 'Standard' Assault Metric of 2 ST Ranged, 2 ST Melee, 1 AoE Ranged, 1 AoE Melee.

 

Then do Hell on Earth as a Lash-Ranged Melee attack that drops a Mag 12 Hold for 2 seconds on the target, starting with the animation time, use the Hell on Earth Animation complete with the fire imps and an AoE fire effect as their Tier 9.

 

Toss in a "Power Up" instead of a Build Up and we're down to needing one power for the set! Hell Unbound as a Burn would work just fine, but what if we switched it up and did a 'Bonfire' cast for it and made it a ranged-placement Burn to make it different from other Burns?

[Zepp]

8 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Honestly... I feel like Corruption should be the Tier 2, the Ranged Component changed to a Melee component and it's range shrunk to match Lash. Make those three attacks the 'Melee' attacks of the set.

 

Then maybe give them the Flares/Fire Blast/Fire Ball in Hellfire Style with a Sentinel-Style range reduction. Longer Melee range, Shorter Ranged range.

 

That'd cover both 6 powers in the set and the 'Standard' Assault Metric of 2 ST Ranged, 2 ST Melee, 1 AoE Ranged, 1 AoE Melee.

 

Then do Hell on Earth as a Lash-Ranged Melee attack that drops a Mag 12 Hold for 2 seconds on the target, starting with the animation time, use the Hell on Earth Animation complete with the fire imps and an AoE fire effect as their Tier 9.

 

Toss in a "Power Up" instead of a Build Up and we're down to needing one power for the set! Hell Unbound as a Burn would work just fine, but what if we switched it up and did a 'Bonfire' cast for it and made it a ranged-placement Burn to make it different from other Burns?

For reference:

Assault generally has 2 melee, 3 ranged (excluding snipes), 1 melee AoE, 1 ranged AoE, 1 boost, and 1 special (often a snipe, sometimes a toggle, or something else).

 

The special in this set is a toggle, and one ranged was replaced with a summon...

 

The longest range for a melee attack (atm) is 13' (Crushing Uppercut). You are suggesting making Corruption, Lash, and Hell on Earth 20' melee attacks? I suppose you want Crack Whip as a 20' Cone as well...

Also, I am unclear about what you want to do with Hell on Earth. You want to convert it to an attack with the most powerful hold in the game (but for only 2s - up to 5s if it is modifiable) that is also a summon?

Also, Flares and Fire Blast (While they may work) are already in the Fiery Assault set, which would decrease differentiation between the two sets.

 

The Fire Blast Attacks that do not occur in Fiery Assault are Fire Ball, Rain of Fire, and Inferno. I actually think that Rain of Fire and Inferno work better for the feel of the set...

 

[Steampunkette]

1 minute ago, Zepp said:

For reference:

Assault generally has 2 melee, 3 ranged (excluding snipes), 1 melee AoE, 1 ranged AoE, 1 boost, and 1 special (often a snipe, sometimes a toggle, or something else).

 

The special in this set is a toggle, and one ranged was replaced with a summon...

 

The longest range for a melee attack (atm) is 13' (Crushing Uppercut). You are suggesting making Corruption, Lash, and Hell on Earth 20' melee attacks? I suppose you want Crack Whip as a 20' Cone as well...

Also, I am unclear about what you want to do with Hell on Earth. You want to convert it to an attack with the most powerful hold in the game (but for only 2s - up to 5s if it is modifiable) that is also a summon?

Also, Flares and Fire Blast (While they may work) are already in the Fiery Assault set, which would decrease differentiation between the two sets.

 

The Fire Blast Attacks that do not occur in Fiery Assault are Fire Ball, Rain of Fire, and Inferno. I actually think that Rain of Fire and Inferno work better for the feel of the set...

 

Yes. I want to make the length of the melee attacks long and the ranged attacks short. And even with a 20ft cone, Hell on Earth should still have a melee-sized target cap.

 

What I wanna do with Hell on Earth is make it into a hold that is SUPER POWERFUL so that the target remains in the animation the full time even if it's an Arachnos Boss (But not an AV). Unenhanceable, though I didn't mention it. It's entirely for the visual effect to work. Then apply a small AoE of damage during that hold (Probably minor Toxic damage), and summon the pets.

 

It's a pet-summoning power you can't use in anticipation of a fight. You can't have them out before the fight starts for buffing purposes or alpha-increase. So adding a short and almost unavoidable hold to it, and a small AoE of damage, makes up for it.

 

It also keeps you locked into the casting animation for several seconds, since you're holding the whip wrapped around the target.

 

The Hellfire Flares and Fire Blast do Toxic/Fire (Or Fire/Toxic) so that helps differentiate them. Plus the altered visuals. That said, Rain of Fire -would- be a nifty power to give to the set, possibly instead of Fireball.

[Zepp]

Something like this work for you @Steampunkette?

 

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged (40'), Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Infernal Lash	Lash	2	Melee (20'), High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Brimstone	Rain of Fire	4	Ranged (40') (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Melee (20' Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hell Unbound	Burn	28	Location PBAoE, Moderate DoT (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res Self +Res (Immobilize)
Gates of Hell	Inferno	35	PBAoE, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	38	Ranged 40' Hold, Location AoE Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Summon Living Hellfire (2s Mag 6 hold, unenhanceable)

Edited September 14, 2019 by Zepp

[Steampunkette]

MAYBE drop Gates of Hell's power from Superior down to High. Sort of a High end of High low end of Superior... It is, after all, not the Tier 9 for the set.

 

But yeah. That seems great!

[Zepp]

13 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

MAYBE drop Gates of Hell's power from Superior down to High. Sort of a High end of High low end of Superior... It is, after all, not the Tier 9 for the set.

 

But yeah. That seems great!

I've dropped it from Extreme, Superior, High, whatever... Those descriptive terms are not really that important... Damage-wise, I think it should be around the same as Ripper from Thorny Assault...

That being said, the current Hell on Earth summons three (I believe) Living Hellfires, and then one more every 15s for 90s. That is a total of 9 Living Hellfires. I'm not exactly sure on their duration, but it is likely around 120s. Gang War summons ten minions immediately. My suggestion would be to make it summon six Living Hellfires that are not damageable for the duration of 30s with a 240s recharge. That way they would only be up half the time, and not overpowered, but they can bang the target for the first two seconds while it is held... It is kinda in the vein of Phantom Army, but not Permable.

[Steampunkette]

12 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I've dropped it from Extreme, Superior, High, whatever... Those descriptive terms are not really that important... Damage-wise, I think it should be around the same as Ripper from Thorny Assault...

That being said, the current Hell on Earth summons three (I believe) Living Hellfires, and then one more every 15s for 90s. That is a total of 9 Living Hellfires. I'm not exactly sure on their duration, but it is likely around 120s. Gang War summons ten minions immediately. My suggestion would be to make it summon six Living Hellfires that are not damageable for the duration of 30s with a 240s recharge. That way they would only be up half the time, and not overpowered, but they can bang the target for the first two seconds while it is held... It is kinda in the vein of Phantom Army, but not Permable.

That sounds reasonable, sure. Thank you for working with me on it a bit, Zepp!

[daveyfiacre]

i love the set, the only thing i struggle with is the fire attacks 😞

 

lol i want to get over them but i cant T_T and it makes me so sad. i really really do like how you built the set. [and my set]. if you could mishmash the fx from other hellfire powers... or even use the sorcery patch if the fx fits better than the fire patch...

 

lol im sorry!!!!