Best Tanker Primaries?

[Kruunch]

What are currently (functionally) the best Tanker primaries>

 

My list includes first those sets that are both functionally tough and self sufficient (not end-hungry)

 

1) Radiation

2) Electric

3) Bio

3) Energy (**EDIT** my mistake here ... Energy is available on Brutes not Tankers).

 

Next are the functionally tough but can be a little (or a lot) clunky to run:

 

4) Stone

5) Invulnerability

7) Dark

8) Super Reflexes

9) Will Power (because of sustain but I'm not really sure it holds up well on a Tanker)

 

Next are the ones I find that have holes in their sets (i.e. need help filling out past IOs / slotting).

 

9) Ice

10) Fire

11) Shield

 

What are your thoughts?

[Gone]

Radiation, Electric, Bio, Invuln and Dark seem to be the winners when it comes to fully built characters (including IO's and Incarnates).

 

I think Radiation is the strongest.  I'd pick Dark or Elec over the other two, Dark for the high resist capacity for all including Psi, Elec for some tools to go with good resists.  No experience with Bio so I can't REALLY rank it.

 

1: Rad

2: Dark (People oddly think of the CC powers when they see dark, but it's really incredibly strong for resists and defense building, and includes a virtually 100% heal that you can get recharging every seven seconds... just ignore the t7/8/9 gimmicks and you're good)

3: Elec

4: Fire

5: Invuln

 

Defense based powersets are fine but you're going to get more mileage out of Resist based when slotting set IOs.

 

(Edit:  Added fire in where it should be, I always forget about fire.  It's fine, I'd definitely pick it over Invuln if I were going to choose between the Psi-hole sets.)

[Gigajoule]

Having played both an Ice Tanker and Electric Tanker to 50, I completely agree with your placement of both Ice Armor and Electric Armor.

 

I notice no Willpower in the list. I guess I would put that in the middle tier, functionally good but with some issues to work around (namely that taunt aura).

[Hyperstrike]

I'm actually surprised that you find Rad and Electric tough enough but not Fire...

 

Stone?  Yeah.  It's too slow for the modern game.

Dark?  A bit endurance intensive

 

SR, Ice and Shield have some issues with being mostly Def and eggshelling.

 

I haven't really found Inv or it's lazy cousin, WP, to be all THAT fiddly.

 

Bio: I'm a costume freak.  Turning into a stone goliath, okay.  Turning into a puddle of poo?  Nah.  I know, dumb reason for bypassing a set but hey.

 

Energy is one I never actually played.  Mainly because there IS no energy armor for Tanks.  Likely because it's already so overblown on Brutes and Scrappers.

 

But yeah, it's kinda End-heavy for lowbies.

 

 

[Kruunch]

I'm actually surprised that you find Rad and Electric tough enough but not Fire...

 

Stone?  Yeah.  It's too slow for the modern game.

Dark?  A bit endurance intensive

 

SR, Ice and Shield have some issues with being mostly Def and eggshelling.

 

I haven't really found Inv or it's lazy cousin, WP, to be all THAT fiddly.

 

Bio: I'm a costume freak.  Turning into a stone goliath, okay.  Turning into a puddle of poo?  Nah.  I know, dumb reason for bypassing a set but hey.

 

Energy is one I never actually played.  Mainly because there IS no energy armor for Tanks.  Likely because it's already so overblown on Brutes and Scrappers.

 

But yeah, it's kinda End-heavy for lowbies.

 

On Bio you can turn the graphics to minimal on character creation (or at the tailor) to avoid the poo look (and I agree with you on that btw).

 

Energy - my bad there (have that on my Brute). Energy is Electric Armor but Defense focused instead of resist.

 

Dark I find too endurance needy. Towards the end it great, but painful getting there imho.

 

I agree about Resists > Defense. Super Reflex is so easy to go past the softcap however that it functionally works well.

 

Will Power - kind of a gimpy old style Regen (or a better Regen than current Regen). Haven't played around with it a ton but seems better suited for other ATs than Tankers (i.e. Will Power on my Sentinel works fine, but he don't get punched in the face for a living).

[Kruunch]

(Edit:  Added fire in where it should be, I always forget about fire.  It's fine, I'd definitely pick it over Invuln if I were going to choose between the Psi-hole sets.)

 

Fire is a farming tank. Great against AE farm missions and certain other content but not what I'd want to main tank a TF with (yeah I know Fire can be built to, but so can a Scrapper :P )

[Kruunch]

 

2: Dark (People oddly think of the CC powers when they see dark, but it's really incredibly strong for resists and defense building, and includes a virtually 100% heal that you can get recharging every seven seconds... just ignore the t7/8/9 gimmicks and you're good)

 

 

I found Dark to be really clunky until the later levels (endurance wise). It's resist hole is energy, which is problematic (fixable but that's the third highest form of damage you encounter).

 

Otherwise I agree (but is why I put it in the second tier).

[Warboss]

What are currently (functionally) the best Tanker primaries>

 

My list includes first those sets that are both functionally tough and self sufficient (not end-hungry)

 

1) Radiation

2) Electric

3) Bio

3) Energy (**EDIT** my mistake here ... Energy is available on Brutes not Tankers).

 

Next are the functionally tough but can be a little (or a lot) clunky to run:

 

4) Stone

5) Invulnerability

7) Dark

8) Super Reflexes

9) Will Power (because of sustain but I'm not really sure it holds up well on a Tanker)

 

Next are the ones I find that have holes in their sets (i.e. need help filling out past IOs / slotting).

 

9) Ice

10) Fire

11) Shield

 

What are your thoughts?

 

That's pretty much how I'd rank them as well, although once you incarnate things many sets get MUCH better.

[Herotu]

People are foolish to write off WP so readily without trying it.

[Kruunch]

People are foolish to write off WP so readily without trying it.

 

How so?

[marcussmythe]

WP, being a multilayer set, responds very positively to IOs.

[jack_nomind]

Dark is the best set: it has excellent resistances, builds easily to softcap (thanks to a bonus Weave), has a great self-heal, and additional utility on the side.  Levelling it is a chore because it doesn't start nearly as well-off as some of the next tier sets, but where they plateau out it just... keeps... going.

 

The next tier are sets that are very strong but fail in one of those areas: Rad, Invuln, Shield, WP, and Bio.  Of note, Invuln is gonna live here forever because it's so darn easy to build for that it opens up the overall potential immensely.  Rad by all rights shouldn't be here -- it should be with Electric or Fire -- but it was kissed with beautiful numbers. 

 

Below that are sets that are a bit more niche.  Electric, non-granite or dual-use Stone, and SR.  These can work well but are noticeably lopsided.  Non-granite Stone seems like it should be higher since it's so similar to WP or Shield, but the set pays a heavy price for that T9.

 

At the bottom are sets that rely entirely on some specific trick to function at all: Fire, Ice, and pure-granite Stone.  Ice requires everything in range of Chilling Embrace; Granite Stone is the infamous teleporting pillowfighter; and Fire... uh, y'all know Fire.

[Supreme Ballista]

These numbers are from my Willpower tank with about 40 million into him and he is not finished. Willpower plus IO is not to be underestimated.

 

Numbers just in-case this picture is not showing.

 

Lethal and Smashing Res = 90%

Fire /Cold Def = 45.49%

Eng/Neg Eng Def = 51.84%

Psionic Def = 29.83%

Psionis Res = 58.79%

Damage Bouns = 25%

Regen = 1.42% (39.08 Hp/sec) solo with no mobs around. 125 hp/sec with 10 mobs around.

 

( I hope the attachment works)

[Heraclea]

Bio: I'm a costume freak.  Turning into a stone goliath, okay.  Turning into a puddle of poo?  Nah.  I know, dumb reason for bypassing a set but hey.

 

Bio has a minimal FX setting.  It still ends up making you look like Pigpen.  Costume freaks are best served by Invuln and WP.  My bio/ tanker is /spines: not an issue. 

 

I would say that the premier set is still Invuln.  You won't plug the psi hole nearly enough to satisfy anybody going to try for that.  Still a very solid all around set.  Possible to build to be as tough as Granite without the drawbacks, including especially costume. 

 

WP is also very good for toughness.  Does not have a psi hole.  Better for sustained offense than Invuln because of endurance relief.  Lesser taunt aura, apparently shared by the tanker version of Super Reflexes, is a minor problem.  Out of the box it isn't nearly as tough as Invuln. Tough and Weave make seven league strides in fixing that. 

 

Bio and Fire are fiddly sets.  They do just fine IME,  but rely heavily on click powers for survivability.  I understand that Electric is also that way; never played it high level then or now.  Not sure what to make of Rad, but mine is still under level 20.  Rad also seems fairly glowy and ugly, not for the costume crowd. 

 

Shield is potentially quite strong, especially with sets. but I still think of it as an offense oriented kit because of Shield Bash. 

[Erratic1]

Rad also seems fairly glowy and ugly, not for the costume crowd. 

 

A lot depends on what you are trying to achieve with the costume and how much you plan around the effects beforehand. Having two Radiation Armor characters I have gone opposite directions with them--one has the Radiation Armor effects colored to blend into the background of the costume costume and the other's costume serves as a contrast for the Radiation Armor effects (in fact, his costume is horribly plain without the effects up and going).

 

I have received multiple compliments on my Rad/Psi Tanker's costume design.

[GritIron]

I disareee with some of those placements but thats your POV and play experience. 

 

Ivulnerability, WP and Shield should be higher on the lists in my opinion but again thats my gameplay experience.

 

I have to say Rad tho is definitely a strong set...

[Sura]

I'm a Tanker through and through and all I've ever played is ice. 

 

:-[

[jcbrooklyn]

I have played at least 6 WP and INV, Brutes and Tankers, to 50 and beyond. Cosmetically they are my favorite for concepts but also they can both reach massive survivability with small investments.

 

I feel like WP is superior in every aspect except agro control. Which can admittedly be super annoying. But layering Def, followed by Res, followed by massive Regen and backed up by sustain ... just good. And not mucking with your costume is iceing on the cake.

 

[Gulbasaur]

Rad also seems fairly glowy and ugly, not for the costume crowd.

Set it to Bright tintable then pick really dark colours. It turns the flashy glow into a smokey simmer. It's what I do on all the effects I don't like and quite a reliable way of making them more subtle.

[Cutter]

I took an Inv/EM and Stone/Fire to 50 back on live, and am currently leveling an Elec/Staff and Rad/SS (25 and 20). My two new tanks feel much more survivable than my Inv ever did, even at these low levels. I'm on generic IOs which is comparable to the SO build I ran back then. I'm sure part of it is that I just know more now (and for the Elec the bonus defense from Staff helps), but given my experience thus far I can't see myself at this point wanting to build with either Inv or Stone in this new world.

[JusticeBowler]

I had an Ice tank back on live before IOs and before the devs fiddled with it. Everyone told me the set was trash, but I could do everything anybody else could do except the things that (at the time) only Stone tanks could do like Hami and Recluse. People would get on a team with me and demand a backup tank because I was "Ice" and we all know Ice sucks, then I would do crazy tank tricks that would have them wanting to roll an Ice tank of their own by the time we were done.

 

I really don't buy most of the FUD about tanker sets that "suck." I'm not saying that a tricked out Rad tank isn't more survivable than an Ice tank in absolute maximal terms (especially with set bonuses), but depending on your playstyle you can do crazy things with any tank.

 

And as for the Fear and Stun auras on a Dark tank being a gimmick... well they've never seen someone use them well. The DAMAGE aura is the gimmick (far too little damage to be useful and it isn't really needed to hold taunt, especially when you can use your heal for that). Being able to taunt, terrorize, and stun multiplies the number of mobs you control which is actually MORE important than raw survivability.

 

Tanks are just better controllers who need HP to make their powers work.  People who look at it the other way around will never see the possibilities. This is why my Ice Tanker was so stunning back in the day. People who just calculate set bonuses for raw resist and defense are playing a tank with one hand behind their back... and missing out on what I consider the more fun aspects of live tanking.

 

Meat shields are boring and don't contribute anything to the team outside surviving the alpha strike. IMNHO.

[Sura]

I had an Ice tank back on live before IOs and before the devs fiddled with it. Everyone told me the set was trash, but I could do everything anybody else could do except the things that (at the time) only Stone tanks could do like Hami and Recluse. People would get on a team with me and demand a backup tank because I was "Ice" and we all know Ice sucks, then I would do crazy tank tricks that would have them wanting to roll an Ice tank of their own by the time we were done.

 

I really don't buy most of the FUD about tanker sets that "suck." I'm not saying that a tricked out Rad tank isn't more survivable than an Ice tank in absolute maximal terms (especially with set bonuses), but depending on your playstyle you can do crazy things with any tank.

 

And as for the Fear and Stun auras on a Dark tank being a gimmick... well they've never seen someone use them well. The DAMAGE aura is the gimmick (far too little damage to be useful and it isn't really needed to hold taunt, especially when you can use your heal for that). Being able to taunt, terrorize, and stun multiplies the number of mobs you control which is actually MORE important than raw survivability.

 

Tanks are just better controllers who need HP to make their powers work.  People who look at it the other way around will never see the possibilities. This is why my Ice Tanker was so stunning back in the day. People who just calculate set bonuses for raw resist and defense are playing a tank with one hand behind their back... and missing out on what I consider the more fun aspects of live tanking.

 

Meat shields are boring and don't contribute anything to the team outside surviving the alpha strike. IMNHO.

 

I agree, I think "Best Tanker Primaries?" wasn't a question back when SO's were the top of the list, and pre-Brutes.  It's a far more relevent question now though, because of power creep and AT proliferation.  If Tankers have primaries (perhaps Ice, perhaps not) that are easily or more easily equaled or surpassed by IO's and Brutes (or Scrappers or even Stalkers) that's something that should be noted for potential change. 

 

I love Ice.  My highest character on Live (up into Alpha at least) was Ice/Axe (can you imagine?) and I've got two more on Excelsior.  My Ice/Elec is fun to play; she's an END drainer alongside her defense, slow, and little bits of resist, she's been fun to build (no sets yet).  That doesn't mean I don't recognize that Ice is at or near the bottom of the Tanker primaries list (as seen in this thread).  I'm not going to run out and start a different Tanker, I like Ice, but I'd like to see Ice get a boost or two somehow.

[JusticeBowler]

I love Ice.  My highest character on Live (up into Alpha at least) was Ice/Axe (can you imagine?) and I've got two more on Excelsior.  My Ice/Elec is fun to play; she's an END drainer alongside her defense, slow, and little bits of resist, she's been fun to build (no sets yet).  That doesn't mean I don't recognize that Ice is at or near the bottom of the Tanker primaries list (as seen in this thread).  I'm not going to run out and start a different Tanker, I like Ice, but I'd like to see Ice get a boost or two somehow.

 

Ice/Axe FTW! and yes, I made it because people told me not to make it. It was "let's see what I can do with this" character that turned into my signature toon back on Live. I didn't stick around to see Incarnates happen though... and all my IO set slotting was for the Enhancement value, I pretty much ignored whatever set bonuses I was getting as gravy.

 

Svengjuk was a legend. I haven't been able to bring myself to play him again. In fact, all my old toons, can't do it. I've moved on to new things. I'll admit, sometimes the naysayers are right and something is gimped. But it is fun to prove them wrong when you can.

[Sura]

I love Ice.  My highest character on Live (up into Alpha at least) was Ice/Axe (can you imagine?) and I've got two more on Excelsior.  My Ice/Elec is fun to play; she's an END drainer alongside her defense, slow, and little bits of resist, she's been fun to build (no sets yet).  That doesn't mean I don't recognize that Ice is at or near the bottom of the Tanker primaries list (as seen in this thread).  I'm not going to run out and start a different Tanker, I like Ice, but I'd like to see Ice get a boost or two somehow.

 

Ice/Axe FTW! and yes, I made it because people told me not to make it. It was "let's see what I can do with this" character that turned into my signature toon back on Live. I didn't stick around to see Incarnates happen though... and all my IO set slotting was for the Enhancement value, I pretty much ignored whatever set bonuses I was getting as gravy.

 

Svengjuk was a legend. I haven't been able to bring myself to play him again. In fact, all my old toons, can't do it. I've moved on to new things. I'll admit, sometimes the naysayers are right and something is gimped. But it is fun to prove them wrong when you can.

 

I ran into the same thing; I just didn't feel like re-making my old character.  On Excelsior I did Ice/Staff up into the high thirties and then started my Ice/Elec.  In fact, now that you mention it, I think all of my characters are new, I haven't re-created any of my old ones.  Seems weird.

 

Even back in the day the Incarnate system did more harm to Ice than good.  There's only so far a non-layered tanker can go.  Now if the recharge debuff in Chilling were enhanceable, that would help.  I don't mind Ice doing things in what I call a non-traditional way (like using recharge debuffs instead of resistance, or END drain), but those non-traditional methods still should bring the set in line with other sets. 

 

I'm happily amazed there was another Ice/Axe tanker!  :)

[JusticeBowler]

Even back in the day the Incarnate system did more harm to Ice than good.  There's only so far a non-layered tanker can go.  Now if the recharge debuff in Chilling were enhanceable, that would help.  I don't mind Ice doing things in what I call a non-traditional way (like using recharge debuffs instead of resistance, or END drain), but those non-traditional methods still should bring the set in line with other sets. 

 

I'm happily amazed there was another Ice/Axe tanker!  :)

 

Go team IA!

 

I've always been suspicious of certain powers and effects that were capped without explanation or seemed WAY underperforming and how the devs seemed to utterly ignore them. I suspect the devs had internal prejudices from their own playtesting experience (or someone's math) that didn't play out in the way players experienced them. -RCHG is clearly one that got flagged as "potentially game breaking". It is possible they actually designed some powers to suck so that the set as a whole was balanced against some other power they thought was too powerful. I don't know.

 

Of course, other game breaking things happily marched on to become FOTM and they didn't seem to care. One of the weirdest ones is the insanely long recharge time on some powers. Wasn't rest like 8 mins originally?

 

The only exception to this rule was weapon redraw which they not only capitulated to, but expended enormous efforts to recode into the activation times of powers. It still feels psychologically broken (which is why I usually turn off the animation), but it is really and truly fixed.

 

But then I'm looking back to a time when you couldn't take every single power in your set because you wouldn't have room for travel powers, health and stamina. Rating which was the best set back then included which powers were skippable. So I know the game has come a long way since then.