Not a fun post.

[Scarlet Shocker]

5 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

The patch notes are only on the forums.  Discord links to the forums.  But sometimes there will be a note or dev comment on Discord about something being changed and that doesn't make it to the official patch notes.  We try to be comprehensive and complete, but there's a lot of people doing a lot of different things and sometimes a change doesn't make it to the official patch notes.

 

We're only human
Of flesh and blood, We're made
Human
Born to make mistakes.

 

 

And Cobalt posted while I looked for the video.

That's fair enough then. It's not what I understood from OPs post but it's a good answer and you might only be human but you might also be bleedin' ancient judging by your musical choice 🤣

 

(but then again, who am I to talk? 😂)

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, I decided I'd had quite enough of the new stuff this morning, and went back to the new alt I'd made just prior to the surprise update. I only need the master run of the new tf (and the advanced mode required one). All in due time. 

So, on my lower character, someone asks the question about why they can't convert 4 uncommon incarnate components into a rare anymore? And 4 rares into a very rare. 

I quickly tab out, look through the patch notes. I saw no mention of this anywhere. I thought..Bug? Nah. Not bug. Further discussion on the help channel reveals it's not in the patch notes but on dev commentary in the HC Discord. 

Apparently, this conversion is still available, but has to be done by Prometheus, the tall bluish guy who gives Avid Reader badge. 

The reasoning is to spare the noobs from the inf sink. Well...I guess I'd have 125M more inf if this change had taken place 6 years ago. 
But, I'm not sure how I feel about being unable to do the conversion in the spot I'm at - as this is generally done prior to some event, and leaving the zone can cost you the opportunity. At best, it can delay things for a team that would prefer you swap one Destiny for another, and you need to convert some of the many drops into the components you need to build it. 

What bugs me is why in a discord dev commentary and not here in these forums? Discord has an awful name. It's a fine tool, but it's not where game change info should be listed. That should be in in the patch notes. What's the point of reading them if the information isn't there? 
I'll use discord to coordinate in game challenges. But going there to get any information about CoH is just not sitting well with me. Now I have to pore over the patch notes, and then pore over Dev Commentary on the Discord? 

Look, nobody's perfect. Least of all me. But this seems like a lack of a policy. Changes to the game should be articulated in the patch notes - not in a dev commentary (until sometime later, I imagine, in a discussion of the why, perhaps) 

I am grateful that the conversion option didn't go away. But I don't care for the inability to do this where I'm at. I'm sure there were other ways to make this change. Why not let the players learn the hard way like I did? I wasn't rolling in it back in 2019. And clearly the lesson took hold, because I still remember it. Now I do it because I have it and it's convenient, and I'd rather not burn the emps. 

I'm sure my take won't be popular. That's fine. Most of my takes aren't. But I don't agree with stealth changes like this. Given the nature of Brainstorm, this is a change I wouldn't have seen unless I was specifically looking for it. Nobody bothered to ask players what they thought. So, that kind of galls me a bit. 

Please, in the future, use the patch notes, with explanations as to why you changed things. The benevolence behind the change can certainly mitigate most misgivings behind it. But the sneaky part of changing it without telling anyone other those few who use discord often enough to surf through it - that's just not sitting well with me. 

I agree with not liking to go somewhere.  Like Ukase sometimes i build a T4 on the fly for an event.  And that becomes weird if you got to go somewhere…

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I don’t think that people like developers that have an actual obligation to communicate with the community get to have an aversion to using their own website in the same way that Ukase or I might have preferences. At a certain point people that take on a formal role will and should be required to do their actual jobs.

That's an okay opinion to have. And it's not a job for anyone on the Homecoming Team.

[Snarky]

56 minutes ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

This was a simple mistake.
I disabled the conversion options, because we were moving them under Prometheus (due to the conversions being very cost ineffective, and thus being a potential new player trap).

Things got busy getting Page 3 launched, and I forgot to remember to hook up the new dialog option. Since I never finished the change, it also missed the notes because it was still on a to-do somewhere.

Those expensive conversions will be back next build, on Prometheus, under an option that says 'What can you do for me?'.

By policy, we don't do stealth changes. If something isn't on the notes, it's because we missed it.

It is not just the move without notes.  I live in a world of chaos.  I can handle that

 

but….  The Devs have removed functionality from this process.  If you are with a team/league and want to craft an ability for the situation….  You can no longer use this option without going to Ouro.  
 

I have heard Dev after Dev tell me they did not want to remove intangible from Black Hole (no matter how much a train wreck the new version became) because SOME players ise it and like it.   Well, I use and like being able to combine incarnate salvage to craft higher abilities without going to Ouro    
 

(you do not have to answer.  I live in a world of chaos, but there are certain patterns i see all to often…)

[arcane]

4 hours ago, madicen said:

Changes should ALWAYS be in the patch notes. This patch has a few glaring omissions. Increased difficulty not having increased rewards/xp/inf yet is tucked away in a beta forum post here, but nowhere in the patch notes. 

 

For better or worse game forums are going the way of the dodo. Many new games, AAA mmos even, just forgo it now in favor of Discord. Change is ever present. Whether you choose to avail yourself of how people are choosing to share information is of course up to you, but the only thing that's going to kill off Discord is something better than Discord.

Are you saying +4 and +5 enemies are currently giving the same amount of XP? I’m trying to find dev commentary on this rn. 

[Glacier Peak]

28 minutes ago, arcane said:

Are you saying +4 and +5 enemies are currently giving the same amount of XP? I’m trying to find dev commentary on this rn. 

Was looking for that myself and didn't see it. I'd recommend a bug report with data collected at +4 and +5 if possible. 

[Bionic_Flea]

39 minutes ago, arcane said:

Are you saying +4 and +5 enemies are currently giving the same amount of XP? I’m trying to find dev commentary on this rn. 

 

I am not a dev, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn . . . once . . . before COVID.

 

Anyway, a level 54, 55, and 56 CoT minion spectre all gave the same -  12,141 experience and 5,664 influence.

[Hedgefund]

Forgive the formatting, this was not meant for public viewing but since the topic has been brought up, the first  set of numbers are xp/inf from an AE mission, the second set of numbers is from a Talons boss named "Conquerer" in the Heather Townshend arc, at all levels from 4+ to +7.

 

diff	rank	xp	inf
4	EB	71466	119110
4	Boss	36425	60708
4	Lt	12141	19425
4	Min	6070	5664
5	EB	72851	121416
5	Boss	36425	60708
5	Lt	12141	19425
5	Min	6070	5664
Conquerer
5	Boss	48567	60708
4	Boss	48567	60708
6	Boss	48567	60708
7	Boss	48567

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Are you saying +4 and +5 enemies are currently giving the same amount of XP? I’m trying to find dev commentary on this rn. 

 

Check out Faultline's post.  It's known, they wanted to at least get the new increased settings in place which they'll likely be working on the reward table fix.  For now no rewards are lost beyond what you were already getting before, you can select the higher difficulties but you'll only get the old reward table until they get the workaround.  

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Mezmera

[Maelwys]

14 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

I disabled the conversion options, because we were moving them under Prometheus (due to the conversions being very cost ineffective, and thus being a potential new player trap).

FWIW, I vaguely remember a quick convo flying past on Discord about these conversions... and I seem to recall that the only things getting nixed (at that time!) were the "insanely expensive" Rare and Very Rare conversions e.g. the ones that upgrade uncommons to rares / rares to very rare and also cost buckets of influence.

The other options (Threads-to-commons, Threads-to-uncommons, sidegrades, downgrades, etc) should all still be there though... right?

Thanks for clearing up that they're moving to Prometheus though - I can understand not wanting newbies to think they're the "usual method" of getting a T4 incarnate ability; but for those of us with more inf than sense it'd be a shame to lose them entirely... 😉
 

Edited 1 hour ago by Maelwys

[Lockpick]

6 hours ago, Ukase said:

What bugs me is why in a discord dev commentary and not here in these forums? Discord has an awful name. It's a fine tool, but it's not where game change info should be listed. That should be in in the patch notes. What's the point of reading them if the information isn't there? 
I'll use discord to coordinate in game challenges. But going there to get any information about CoH is just not sitting well with me. Now I have to pore over the patch notes, and then pore over Dev Commentary on the Discord? 


 

 

I'm with you.  I will not use Discord and I think it is BS that the official forums are not the formal repository for all data around patches, changes, and other game related information.

[macskull]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

By policy, we don't do stealth changes. If something isn't on the notes, it's because we missed it.

What's the statute of limitations on that? The changes to +3/+4 XP modifiers from I27P7 never made it into the patch notes either and last time I asked the reply was "it's been too long for us to go back and add them."

[mechahamham]

Discord hates me. About 4/5ths of the time, I struggle to log in, or am not able to log in at all. I avoid it in all but the most dire circumstances, where no other kind of communication is possible.

 

Why does this happen? I know exactly why it happens. I use privacy tools. I use noscript, an ad blocker, a privacy-focused fork of Firefox and other tools. Why? I've had some pretty nasty issues with online stalking and was subject to some of the worse fallout from the 2014 Home Depot data breach. Both were nightmares to live through.

 

Like a lot of big websites, Discord collects a ton of information about their users that they really shouldn't. Data mining is absolutely a thing, and a very profitable thing at that. Because they're trying to be THE end-all-be-all of online chat, they're also subject to the ills of people trying to take advantage of their position. Phishing, scams, and online stalking are very much ALSO things, and they absolutely happen on Discord. Collecting information on the people trying to use their service gives them a little leverage against those ills.

 

Because I try to protect myself, that means I am persona-non-grata with Discord. Because I don't let them monitor my every mouse movement, I MUST be a data-scraping robot, or at least that's the nominal excuse given.

 

Stuff presented solely on Discord might as well be lost to me, because I will likely never see it, even if I want to.

[Bionic_Flea]

They're too busy rushing forward to look back at old patch notes.

 

Always forward!

 

[Ukase]

Let's not lose sight on the fantastic work that's been done by Cobalt and others. The labyrinth additions are amazing! The new TF is also very interesting, with some never before seen maps and visuals! Clearly my post was about something that was simply a mistake that was recognized and will be fixed. Let's not make a big ol' mountain of crap out of an oversight. 

I know there are some who have so much regard for this game, they (and I)  forget that others also hold the game in high regard. I don't expect anyone to forgo time with their families for this game. (unless their families are so dysfunctional the game is preferable) And I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to forgo family time to work on the game. 

It'll get fixed when it gets fixed, and frankly, I'll make a point to review the beta channel on the hc discord in the future. (Which frankly, prior to today, I had no idea it existed. Discord is just wonky to navigate for me, particularly if I want to revisit something, unless it's pinned.) 

Let's remember first to be grateful we have a game that's being attended to, and maintained. I'd be fine (I think) with no changes at all, but if they're going to change things, they've certainly done some amazing things, even if every change might not be reflected on the patch notes. 

I can't imagine being able to keep up with half of what makes it there as it is. 

[knightowl - Pinnacle serve]

I use Discord, but for 95% social / interest group type stuff, or if I want voice comms with locals - it's not my go-to for filesharing, news or information generally, or specifically news or information for games.
 
I remember when Amazon Games shut down their official New World forums and went to a Discord-primary/secondary means of sharing information with their playerbase - I guess they figured between Discord and YouTube, they'd have their bases covered.  I hope they at least saved a few bucks, even if it ultimately wasn't enough to save the game.

Edited 10 hours ago by knightowl - Pinnacle serve

[Bionic_Flea]

11 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Let's remember first to be grateful we have a game that's being attended to, and maintained.

 

It is the season for giving thanks.

 

Thanks to all of you for making this a fun place to be.

[Snarky]

I am finding it outrageously hilarious that the new +5, + 7, +? Enemies give the same rewards as +4.  
 

For context, in case it is in doubt, I am a energy efficient old vampire.  I run stuff with a goal.  A badge.  A power.  A drop.  Not to earn inf.  (I use another strategy for that!). As an example I run one ITF 1 star on important characters for the badge.  Not a 4 star.  I will run, once in a while, a very difficult thing if say Justice Super Teamers is doing it. But it is not my default.  
 

So seeing these people running super hard stuff, burning temps, super insp, die multiple times, all for same rewards as +4?  Priceless…

Edited 4 hours ago by Snarky

[Lines]

Any post can be fun when you print it out and fold it into a plane or cool hat.

[Maelwys]

51 minutes ago, Lines said:

Any post can be fun when you print it out and fold it into a plane or cool hat.