Proc Build (Help)

[ninpon78]

So I am trying to maximize my proc usage without losing to much survival. Anyone have any idea's on how to change build. I just hit 50 and I am about to respec, but I would love some feed back from the experts here. I myself am rather noobish and don't really understand the PPM thing so I scoured and modified builds I found. Let me know any changes you happen top find to improve this. Thank you all for any and all help. AND disregard when the slots where placed lol. I could not remember when I placed them so I just filled in the final results. The ENH are what I currently have slotted, and my current budget is only about 100 million, but list away purple or budget changes the more info the better.

 

Also Seeds of Confusion I will be getting the purple set when I can afford it lol. Also I have a HUGE END problem so I need to get on my Cardiac incarnate asap. 

 

Thank you

 

New BUILD is updated from help and awesome that is Maxzero.

 

Anyone has any other idea's I am all ears.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Druidic Hobo: Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), GldNet-Dam%(3), NrnSht-Dam%(3), GldJvl-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(5)
Level 1: Gale -- ExpStr-Dmg/KB(A), ExpStr-Acc/KB(33), ExpStr-Dam%(45)
Level 2: Roots -- OvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(7), PstBls-Dam%(9), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(9), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Arcane Bolt -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), FrcFdb-Rechg%(13)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- MlsIll-Dam%(A), MlsIll-Acc/Conf/Rchg(15), MlsIll-Acc/Rchg(15), MlsIll-Conf/Rng(17), MlsIll-Acc/EndRdx(17), MlsIll-EndRdx/Conf(19)
Level 10: Steamy Mist -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFrt-Def(31), RedFrt-EndRdx(33)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 14: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(25)
Level 16: Freezing Rain -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(19), PstBls-Dam%(21), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(25), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27)
Level 18: Kick -- ExpStr-Dmg/KB(A), ExpStr-Acc/KB(50), ExpStr-Dam%(50)
Level 20: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 24: Enflame -- Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(33), Ann-ResDeb%(48)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Dtn-Dmg/Rchg(34), ExpStr-Dam%(34), ImpSwf-Dam%(34)
Level 28: Entangle -- SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(29), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(45), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(46)
Level 30: Vines -- BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Hold(36), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(37), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(37)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(37), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(39), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 35: Tornado -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(36), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40), AchHee-ResDeb%(40), TchofLadG-%Dam(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%(42)
Level 38: Lightning Storm -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Dvs-Dmg/Rchg(43), ExpStr-Dam%(43), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45)
Level 41: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Mind Over Body -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 47: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(48)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(23)
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
------------

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Edited August 2, 2019 by ninpon78

[Redlynne]

Your choice of font colors makes reading your build difficult.

[ninpon78]

Black and orange? First one i did was blue and could not see crap lol. That's why I changed it. Let me try another then to see if it helps. Hopefully that is better.

Edited August 2, 2019 by ninpon78

[Sovera]

People actually read the build? I just jump straight to importing it to Pines.

[Bopper]

It does look better. I don't have Pines to look at everything with your build. Still, with my quick glance, it looks like you approached the proc maximization correctly. You minimized recharge where you put procs. Only thing I saw that I didn't like was not having a Performance Shifter +End proc in stamina. That should be a staple. But if you have no endurance problems, then no worries.

[ninpon78]

Oh NO , I 100% have major END problems lol. In the current one that listed I have them in STAM to try and minimize the issue. Obviously I know I will lose some DAM in the incarnate slots because I have to slot for the end issue.

[Coyote]

3 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

I'm not sure how much your Force Feedback procs in Lightning Storm and Tornado are doing for you. They will have a high chance to proc upon casting but will do nothing for you once they are deployed. If you keep them there understand the FF buff is short lived so it may not be a steady reliable buff.

If a FF activates once a minute, then it provides an 8.33% averaged global recharge boost (averaged over the minute). With a 90% proc chance, that's a 7.5%, or equivalent to a LotG. So, casting Tornado 3 times in a minute makes it 3x as effective as a LotG proc. Lightning Storm usually gets cast 2x a minute (approximately), and Tornado 3x.

 

So, when looking at Recharge, I would always suggest to put a FF in Tornado and LS. It's a better return on the slot than any IO set, or LotGs except for powers used to mule it where the first slot is free. The real cost isn't the "character" slot, it's the "power" slot, because you really like both Tornado and LS to have 7-8 slots. So you're losing an important slot in an important power.

 

In this case specifically, I don't think that the extra damage Proc in Tornado will do as much as some mixture of Damage/Recharge/Endurance. Damage procs in Lightning Storm should be worth it since they will test every time it tosses a Lightning bolt.

 

Also, if you're chasing Ranged Defense, I would always suggest putting in Coercive Persuasion into your first Confuse power.

 

Because Roots does more damage than most AoE Immobs, and because of the large Area Factor in it, I would slot it up for Accuracy/Damage/Endurance rather than put Damage Procs into it.

[Coyote]

Tornado is calculating as a single cast of a single-target "placement" power, with one chance to cast. Same for Lightning Storm with regards to FF, but the damage procs should be based on its Bolt attack with its 5' AoE. This makes them both have a 90% chance to proc FF, with Recharge enhancing up to +100%. Bonfire and Earthquake should have the same effect, BTW. AFAIK, Ice Slick doesn't have access to Knockback sets.

 

Oh, and I did ignore the "time-blocking" issue where the previous FF prevents you from activating a new instance of it. You don't get to extend the period, so once you activate FF once, you're blocked from activating it for the next 5 seconds. This means that if you have a build that somehow averages 6 procs of it a minute (which happens easily with Tornado/Lightning Storm/Arcane Bolt), then you're not really averaging 30 seconds of FF uptime. Instead, the 1st proc gets 5 seconds... the 2nd proc has a 5/60 chance to clash with your first activation, and thus only averages (55/60 * 5 seconds = )  4.58 seconds of uptime. Then the 3rd proc averages (5 seconds * (60-5-4.58)/60 ) 4.2 seconds or so. So you do get diminishing returns with multiple sources.

 

You also get diminishing returns with multiple uses of the same power, if you can use it during the first FF's duration, such as Arcane Bolt... it's possible for AB to trigger FF while FF is active from its last cast. And it's possible for Tornado to clash with Lightning Storm, but Tornado's FFs can't clash with themselves, nor can LS clash with themselves. And both clash with AB, and vice-versa. It got too complicated for me to calculate it all, though I do have a formula to approximate it.

 

Also, I forgot to mention... AB only procs on a hit. So you lose at least 5% of its theoretical average compared to an auto-hit power like a pet placement.

[ninpon78]

New build is updated. Have the END mod proc in STAM, the recovery ones in Health, and got rid of Psi Tornado to get a few more recharge slots. Also the Purple confuse set is being worked on. Saving up money till I can buy it all together.

[ninpon78]

Portal Jockey, Atlas Medallian, Task Force Commander and Freedom Phalanx reserve are my goals for this weekend to help with regen and recovery.

[Bopper]

22 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

For the AF I am using the new AF formula posted by @Bopper on Reddit

I didnt post anything on reddit, I just corrected a reddit post that referenced my work from these forums. To save folks from needing to search for it, the Area Factor referenced here is 1 + Radius x (11 x Arc + 540) / 40,000.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Bopper

[Bopper]

25 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

So for quick AoE estimates you can assume (Proc DMG * .9)/(AF)

Sorry, follow up reply. The best case scenario for any proc (ST or AoE) is Proc DMG x 0.90. The AF only impacts the probability, but if the cooldown is large enough, you can still achieve a 90% probability to proc (my soul drain does this, consistent nuke for all 4 damage procs in it).

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

No worries. I struck it out my post. The AF formula you posted is giving me AFs below 1 for anything ~8' Radius and below. That doesn't sound right.

 

Formula I used was:

 

Area Factor = 1 + (Radius * (11 * Arc + 540) / 40,000)

 

looks like 1+ was drop. My error or yours?

 

Thanks for the help!

Maybe it's an order of operations issue. Let's use an 8 foot pbaoe as an example, 

 

Radius = 8

Arc = 360

AF = 1 + 8 x (11 x 360 + 540) / 40000 = 1.9

 

Break it down:

1 + 8 x (3960+540)/40000

1 + 8 x 4500 / 40000

1 + 36000/40000

1 + 0.9

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

I missed the 1+ on the other line in your post. Post deleted. PEBKAC Error

Lol, no worries. I am notorious for that. For the last hour I sat in a meeting thinking...wait, did I write the formula wrong? Glad it's cleared up.

[Hjarki]

Some thoughts:

• Ageless Destiny is not only the best damage-amplifying Destiny but completely solves all your endurance woes. In contrast, Cardiac Alpha comes at the expense of Intuition (or Musculature). I think it's hard to justify Cardic on anything except a tank.
• Procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm. I'm not a particularly big fan of placing damage procs in these powers since they both have a (small) AF penalty that isn't justified by the rate at which they actually inflict AE damage (they tend to be almost exclusively single target damage). With Lightning Storm you also have the issue that it's a special purpose power rather than a core part of every encounter - you're only really using it on relatively long, static fights. Given that, I'd rather invest the proc slot elsewhere or use Lightning Storm as a mule (since you have to mule something, might as well mule those powers you use less frequently).
• Steamy Mist. I think a better approach is to franken-slot it for both Defense and Resistance. This will get you ED-limited defense, ED-limited Resistance and the endurance discount you need. The way you have it slotted right now provides relatively weak set bonuses and wastes most of the enhancement value.
• Fly Trap. This has two defense debuff attacks, so it makes sense to slot defense debuff-related procs. Slotting Soulbound Allegiance for the Build Up may or may not be a wise idea. However, you should give serious consideration to taking a patron pool so you can mule all 4 def/res bonuses for pets to keep your Fly Trap alive. That being said, the only patron pool I really like is Mace Mastery - and that would require re-orienting the build towards S/L/E defense and likely Poisonous Ray rather than Arcane Bolt (which wouldn't make for a repeatable single target rotation but would significantly amplify pet/pseudo-pet damage on a single target).
• Carrion Creepers. I don't understand this slotting at all. You've got three different sets that don't combine to actually grant set bonuses. You probably want to slot this with a purple set for the superior enhancement (even if you can't grab useful set bonuses). That being said, I don't find powers with this long of a recharge particularly useful in most cases. Sure, they do dramatic things when they're available - but they're so rarely available that the overall impact isn't great. With single target powers it can be somewhat justified for rare AV/GM fights. But AE powers tend to only be useful when they're massive burst damage (often with control attached, like Blast set ultimates) or high dps when viewed over time. Carrion Creepers is neither.
• O2 Boost. I tend to view avoiding the heal as problematic. Considering it also doubles as status effect protection, it seems like taking it and slotting one of the several very strong heal set options makes sense.
• Enflame. I've heard good things about this power for static fights and if you place procs in it. As a baseline power, I was thoroughly unimpressed.
• Freezing Rain. This isn't really a damage power, so adding more than some slots for recharge and maybe slow is only justified if you get some really strong set bonuses.
• Panacea +end/healing. This is a great unique you can slot in Health.

[Coyote]

7 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

I was recently informed that the FF proc refreshes the buff and no longer has a cooldown.

Thanks, that's great to know when I have 4 FFs in my Illusion/Storm. That makes the Recharge bonus calculations a lot easier, I can just calculate each power's average bonus separately and them up. And boy, do they add up 😄

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm. I'm not a particularly big fan of placing damage procs in these powers since they both have a (small) AF penalty that isn't justified by the rate at which they actually inflict AE damage (they tend to be almost exclusively single target damage). With Lightning Storm you also have the issue that it's a special purpose power rather than a core part of every encounter - you're only really using it on relatively long, static fights. Given that, I'd rather invest the proc slot elsewhere or use Lightning Storm as a mule (since you have to mule something, might as well mule those powers you use less frequently). 

If you're not using it elsewhere, I like 5xApocalypse in Lightning Storm. This gets you to ED in Damage and Resistance, and also adds a damage proc "for free" (since you're 5-slotting it for the Recharge bonus). This leaves 1 slot free for Force Feedback. I wouldn't go out of my way to put damage procs in Lightning Storm, but 5-slotting Apoc isn't going out of the way.

My build doesn't have use elsewhere for Apocalypse (both Blind and Arcane Bolt are slotted with damage procs and FF so there's no room to 5-slot Apoc, and also you don't want to mix Apoc's high Recharge with procs unless you're remaining over the 90% chance like with Lightning Storm slotted with FF). So I'm not losing the chance to slot Apocalypse elsewhere by 5-slotting it in LS. YMMV on that decision, of course.

[Coyote]

5 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Carrion Creepers. I don't understand this slotting at all. You've got three different sets that don't combine to actually grant set bonuses. You probably want to slot this with a purple set for the superior enhancement (even if you can't grab useful set bonuses). That being said, I don't find powers with this long of a recharge particularly useful in most cases. Sure, they do dramatic things when they're available - but they're so rarely available that the overall impact isn't great. With single target powers it can be somewhat justified for rare AV/GM fights. But AE powers tend to only be useful when they're massive burst damage (often with control attached, like Blast set ultimates) or high dps when viewed over time. Carrion Creepers is neither. 

 

While Carrion Creepers presents like a long-recharge power, in effect it's a perma-able pet (the invisible patch) that summons its own sub-pets (the tentacles). So I like putting enough Recharge in mine to make the invisible patch permanent, and consider it more like a AoE damage aura that "follows" the character rather than being always centered on him.

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

 

While Carrion Creepers presents like a long-recharge power, in effect it's a perma-able pet (the invisible patch) that summons its own sub-pets (the tentacles). So I like putting enough Recharge in mine to make the invisible patch permanent, and consider it more like a AoE damage aura that "follows" the character rather than being always centered on him.

Yup, this is frankenslotting it for Recharge and Damage (it does a respectable amount) so that you have 2 spots for PROCs. Not sure which are the best procs to use overall, I thought Posi's might be better than an immob one for example.

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Yup, this is frankenslotting it for Recharge and Damage (it does a respectable amount) so that you have 2 spots for PROCs. Not sure which are the best procs to use overall, I thought Posi's might be better than an immob one for example.

My point was that you could accomplish the same thing with IOs or various purple sets and use fewer slots. Tossing in recharge/damage from different random sets doesn't really get you anywhere.

[subbacultchas]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Yup, this is frankenslotting it for Recharge and Damage (it does a respectable amount) so that you have 2 spots for PROCs. Not sure which are the best procs to use overall, I thought Posi's might be better than an immob one for example.

Carrion can do some respectable damage even minus the procs, but really shines with them. I usually do 3-4 frankenslots for dmg/recharge and a little acc, and reserve the last 2-3 for procs. It's definitely not one of the skippable powers in any plant build I'm making, and is one of the set-defining powers for me.

[Maxzero]

4 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

It turns out it was changed long before shutdown:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120905040020/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3337403&postcount=4

@Maxzerois that you?

 

It is me.

 

I can't even remember the basis at which I posted it. I know a lot of the problems were with FF recharge and pets in particular T3 bots and Thugs. Once pets could no longer be affected by recharge FF proc had a bunch of limitations removed.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Maxzero