Official 'enterbasefrompasscode' Resolution thread

[Sidious]

11 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

First, I'd like to raise a point that seems to be simply ignored: This is City of Heroes and City of Villains. A game based on comic books where entities have tremendous abilities and powers via whatever methods. Those methods do not include using slash commands. Use of the command absolutely detracts from the intended feel of the game: Using cool powers and abilities to do stuff and things. Sure, it's convenient, but it doesn't fit. Any further discussion about the command in particular is, frankly, wasted time.

 

Consider instead discussing alternatives and improvements to things that DO fit into the game. Improvements to the base teleport power such as those that have already been raised, or even alternatives such as adding a base portal to Ouro. What about inter-base connection points for SG bases? This has been brought up in other places, has plenty of different possible ways to be implemented, and definitely fits in this discussion.

 

Get crazy. The Ouro portal takes a couple seconds on a 5 minute cooldown, isn't interruptable, can be dropped in a mission and is usable by your entire team (hell it can be used by the entire zone if you enter last). Why have a long cooldown or an interrupt period on the base teleporter power? Why not have it or a separate power drop a base portal similar to Ouro's so people around you can use it? There's probably reasons for some things, but the point is to challenge the mold of Ye Olden Time's design decisions in the context of the current state.

I wouldn't mind seeing the base TP power modified to store base codes that you have access to. Just pulls up a menu of the bases you have saved and allows coalition/public access.

 

apart from that, lowering the cool down time by 25 minutes (current is 30, I'm doing math) would put it right in line with the Pocket D teleporter.

Keep it able to be interrupted if you really feel that you must balance for PVP. (Though from the majority of responses, it's only an issue for a small minority of players)

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, Tipsy said:

Well, I guess it's not all THAT special, but due to the restraints of high-level factors (multiple sky/indoor-outdoor lighting can't exist on the same base), we were planning to make a series of bases and use the command to zip between them.  This is RP stuff, so it's within the story of the group.  If there was a way to make base teleporters go from one base to another, that would solve this "need" instead.

Love this idea 3000!  😀  Gives me some interesting ideas for themed bases.  Please do share the codes when you have them all set up.

 

1 hour ago, Sidious said:

apart from that, lowering the cool down time by 25 minutes (current is 30, I'm doing math) would put it right in line with the Pocket D teleporter.

The activation time and animation could use some love as well.  Both are horrible IMO.  Wonder if it is possible to have it customizable so we can select an animation for it - kind of like costume changes?

[ed_anger]

12 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

First, I'd like to raise a point that seems to be simply ignored: This is City of Heroes and City of Villains. A game based on comic books where entities have tremendous abilities and powers via whatever methods. Those methods do not include using slash commands. Use of the command absolutely detracts from the intended feel of the game: Using cool powers and abilities to do stuff and things. Sure, it's convenient, but it doesn't fit. Any further discussion about the command in particular is, frankly, wasted time.

 

Consider instead discussing alternatives and improvements to things that DO fit into the game. Improvements to the base teleport power such as those that have already been raised, or even alternatives such as adding a base portal to Ouro. What about inter-base connection points for SG bases? This has been brought up in other places, has plenty of different possible ways to be implemented, and definitely fits in this discussion.

 

Get crazy. The Ouro portal takes a couple seconds on a 5 minute cooldown, isn't interruptable, can be dropped in a mission and is usable by your entire team (hell it can be used by the entire zone if you enter last). Why have a long cooldown or an interrupt period on the base teleporter power? Why not have it or a separate power drop a base portal similar to Ouro's so people around you can use it? There's probably reasons for some things, but the point is to challenge the mold of Ye Olden Time's design decisions in the context of the current state.

Genuinely don’t get this argument, who uses this as a slash command? I have a macro, it looks like and works just the same as every other random teleport I earned/bought, just without a 30 minute timer. 

 

Really, this teleport just simplified travel to: get to base, pick from a wide range of portals to get to end zone.

 

Otherwise it’s go to Ouro, go to Talos, go to base, than take a portal. More steps. Kind of pointless. 

 

If its breaking pvp add a 10 second delay for players. Don’t see how easier travel breaks gameplay otherwise. If y’all want to reduce timers on the other ports and add a base portal to Ouro, whatever, great, that helps as well. 

[GM Sijin]

58 minutes ago, ed_anger said:

Genuinely don’t get this argument, who uses this as a slash command? I have a macro, it looks like and works just the same as every other random teleport I earned/bought, just without a 30 minute timer. 

Pretty sure the other teleports you're referring to have an animation and activation time. They have an effect you and others can see. They're powers. Many players use slash commands to do a lot of things, but that doesn't generally include skipping using powers to just instantly get what you want done. Outside of Justin, anyway.

1 hour ago, ed_anger said:

If its breaking pvp add a 10 second delay for players.

Slash commands don't have delays. You issue a command, the server/client does something. And adding a delay is not enough, they also need to add an effect signaling that the player is doing something interruptable. At that point what you and others are basically suggesting with this is replacing the command with a power, which already exists and probably just needs to be improved. Which was why I was trying to encourage the discussion away from the command.

 

Access to the command is being fundamentally changed. It may still work in some situations, such as within bases or when the base dialogue box is open, but using the command from anywhere is being removed. The devs have made it pretty clear that's the route they're going as was pointed out a few times. The reasons they haven't already changed it is because they don't want to remove it from all situations, which means they have to spend time making it work differently than normal commands, and want to improve the existing base teleport power. Both of which takes dev time, which has been focused on other, more important changes.

4 hours ago, Sidious said:

I wouldn't mind seeing the base TP power modified to store base codes that you have access to.

I would like to see this too. It does have some design challenges though. Specifically whether to just use commands or engage in the joy of adding to/modifying the UI, and where to store the information. This might be a better discussed in its own topic, for I'd personally recommend something else to go with a bookmarking system: Much like global channels, a server directory of passcodes, except where passcodes default to private but the SG leader can toggle it showing in the directory.

[ShardWarrior]

40 minutes ago, GM Sijin said:

This might be a better discussed in its own topic, for I'd personally recommend something else to go with a bookmarking system: Much like global channels, a server directory of passcodes, except where passcodes default to private but the SG leader can toggle it showing in the directory.

Interesting idea.... can see it being tied into the SG/VG registrar, although it would get very cluttered to scroll through enormous lists when activating the power to pick where to visit.  I imagine we would all want to bookmark/"favorite" friendly bases as well to separate them from the rest.

 

Just a question - is it possible to give a command like this an activation animation even when using it as a slash command or macro?  I mean, emotes work this way - if I type a /e into the chat, my toon does something.  Not suggesting to keep the existing GM one, rather make a new one.  This would allow it to be used as a macro/bookmark while adding in the necessary activation animation?  Just thinking out loud.

 

Or how about changing the existing base TP power to accept passcode input via macro since we can string emotes/chat/power activation together via macro?  Example;

 

/macro MyBaseTP "powexec_name base_teleporter$$<passcode_here>"

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Peerless Girl]

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

The activation time and animation could use some love as well.  Both are horrible IMO.  Wonder if it is possible to have it customizable so we can select an animation for it - kind of like costume changes?

The activation and animation time are part of what balances these base teleport powers from being used in combat, and being easily interruptible. That's part of the problem with the slash command, so I wouldn't expect that to change. 

[justicebeliever]

Just now, Peerless Girl said:

The activation and animation time are part of what balances these base teleport powers from being used in combat, and being easily interruptible. That's part of the problem with the slash command, so I wouldn't expect that to change. 

I would...having any interruption stops it from being just a "escape hatch"...Give it 9 seconds instead of 17, and it's a much better fit...I can't use it when I am surrounded about to die, but I don't need to be standing for 17 full seconds in zone for it to activate (if I have 9 seconds of breathing room in combat, I might as well have several minutes, because I can run and re position myself in a safe place...

 

You seem (and I could be wrong) against improvements to the current base teleporter...is there a reason?  

 

.And I think @ShardWarriorwas referring to the actually animation, not the animation time (he was referring to the interrupt time, so it's both the time, and the style of the animation)...

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Peerless Girl said:

The activation and animation time are part of what balances these base teleport powers from being used in combat, and being easily interruptible. That's part of the problem with the slash command, so I wouldn't expect that to change. 

Yes, I'm aware.  Does it really need to have a 30 second animation and 30 minute recharge though?  Those appear to be the major complaints with it and makes it totally undesirable.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

And I think @ShardWarriorwas referring to the actually animation, not the animation time (he was referring to the interrupt time, so it's both the time, and the style of the animation)...

I was referring to the "teleporting" animation itself.  I personally just don't like the generic teleport animation, not to mention it taking absurdly long on the existing base teleport power.  It's why I suggested looking into a way of customizing the animation - as in choosing if you want the "teleporting" animation or something like the "listen to police band" or the phone/radio call Merc MMs have when summoning or magical portal summon type animation.  It gives it some variety to fit in with our character.   

 

I've no objection whatsoever to whatever power we wind up getting having a short animation and being interruptible.  Those are a must as it solves the issue of instant escape in PvP and Master of TFs.

[Megajoule]

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Yes, I'm aware.  Does it really need to have a 30 second animation and 30 minute recharge though?  Those appear to be the major complaints with it and makes it totally undesirable.

Also, as you and others have mentioned, the need to maintain and refer to a separate directory of codes, rather than offloading that cognitive / memory task to a one or two click UI element, preferably on a WORM (Write Once, Read Many) basis. Yes?

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

Also, as you and others have mentioned, the need to maintain and refer to a separate directory of codes, rather than offloading that cognitive / memory task to a one or two click UI element, preferably on a WORM (Write Once, Read Many) basis. Yes?

That too.  It's why I was thinking that perhaps having whatever replacement/update the existing base teleporter power gets, have it accept a passcode via macro as in the example I posted above.  If your SG doesn't have a passcode, it will just work as it does now and port you to your SG base.  If you use the macro route, it will accept the passcode passed to it via the macro and solves the bookmarking issue.

 

I still very much like the idea @GM Sijin tossed out there with a directory of passcodes made public. Allows for a whole new area of exploration in the game.  Now if they could only get exploration badges to really work in base.... 😀

[ed_anger]

44 minutes ago, GM Sijin said:

At that point what you and others are basically suggesting with this is replacing the command with a power, which already exists and probably just needs to be improved. Which was why I was trying to encourage the discussion away from the command.

Sure. If I can just port to my base more often I don’t care how it’s done, it works for me. The current 30 min timers seem unnecessarily long, compared to the Ouro portal. I’m liking some of the suggestions in this thread: reducing the regular base teleport to five minutes, adding a base portal to Ouro, or even adding more zones to the Ouro out port so you don’t have to keep porting endlessly. 

[Heraclea]

It certainly is an interesting lesson in the effect PvP has on game communities.  

 

That said, adding a base portal to Ouroboros seems the simple and elegant fix.  This replaced Ouro for me not because it was instant, but because I didn't have to struggle to find the return clicky amid the throng of MM pets crowding around it.  That, and the limited selection of destinations made the base portal better.  The harder to get to areas like Crey's Folly make Ouro much less helpful. 

 

(In Ouro, I always go to IP rather than Talos.  Closer to base.  Closer to the train.  This, too, is an exploit, I know.  You didn't read it here.)

 

I worry about what simply removing the command will do to the popularity of task forces like Citadel, Manticore, and Numina, that are always sending you to random destinations.   Most of my characters that run them to level don't have ten million in inf, either.  I don't farm for inf or play the markets, and would prefer that not become compulsory. 

[ShardWarrior]

11 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

Most of my characters that run them to level don't have ten million in inf, either.  I don't farm for inf or play the markets, and would prefer that not become compulsory. 

To add to this, it also seems a bit strange to allow a brand new player be able to create their own SG base at level 1 with all the trimmings, then block the teleport power to their brand spanking new base behind an in game paywall. 

 

I also don't see using Oro for quicker travel to be an exploit either.  In my experience, people just don't want to waste limited playtime with travel.  Wanting to get where we need to go quickly/efficiently may not "fit" the comic theme, but it is a common real world reality that needs to be taken into consideration IMO.  Using stuff like the Oro portal or base teleporter or Pocket D teleport do not supplant travel powers.

[Trademarked Name]

I know I'm a jerk for even mentioning it because I don't code, but it would be nice if they did not use the LR TP/Base TP/Mission TP animation again. One of the nicest things about slash enterbase was the lack of that animation.  

I know that animation is sort of a generic "powering-up" type of effect that is used but wouldn't it be great if they had an Original (mystic) and a Minimal FX (tech) version? I'd be thrilled if they did a tech version where (as SW recommends) the Radio communi-k animation or do the Oroborous/Surveillance/Gun Turret summon animation.

And then the default that is like the Sorcery Translocation animation from Mystic Flight Teleport. Or something animation like Kinetics where the person sort of flings their arms around in circles ala Dr. Strange fashion. I realize the animation from would have to be much longer, but maybe do a loop the the Kinetics animation for several cycles so it looks like they are casting the spell. The trails of energy I think would still even work. Just derailing and pipe dreaming here. 

[GM Sijin]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Just a question - is it possible to give a command like this an activation animation even when using it as a slash command or macro?  I mean, emotes work this way - if I type a /e into the chat, my toon does something.  Not suggesting to keep the existing GM one, rather make a new one.  This would allow it to be used as a macro/bookmark while adding in the necessary activation animation?  Just thinking out loud.

 

Or how about changing the existing base TP power to accept passcode input via macro since we can string emotes/chat/power activation together via macro?  Example;

 

/macro MyBaseTP "powexec_name base_teleporter$$<passcode_here>"

Without knowing the actual ins and outs of the command system, this is somewhat conjecture:

Is it possible? I'd say probably. But given you want a command to play an animation, presumably root a character in place for its duration (which emotes don't do), possibly be interruptable, and then execute an effect on the character it's going to be much easier to use the system that already exists to do exactly that: Powers.

 

As for the second suggestion, that has problems as well. $$ couldn't be used as its simply issuing another command. So either you'd have to "set" your passcode before executing the power and it picks up that passcode and uses it if you select the passcode option, or change powexecname to accept an optional variable explicitly for base_teleport, and probably add a whole new tech to the powers system to accept a player variable.

 

At which point it might just be almost as easy/definitely cleaner to just make a new system designed to manage this unique function.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I personally would be absolutely fine with an O-Portal style revamp to the old base teleporter. In which anyone can drop a portal and then enter a passcode to a given base. Still abit more clunky then having macros for each base and not needing to keep a list of bases and their pass codes written down, but as long as its a low cool down that makes it actually useful like the Oportal that would be a good start.

 

Id also want to see as another brought up more base portal access in zones, with more diverse thematics. FOr example for serious RPers  perhaps in a barely used zone like Kallisti we could take one of those nice fancy buildings, mark it as Super Base, and thus create an in game building to identify as the physical in game world base location. In other zones something like the helicopter being a base access would be fine. Or waht about even adding it to the list of locations the tram system and ferries go to.

 

Id also love to see it added to the list of places longe range teleport can take you, and as an addtional teleport aspect to the expanded power tray along side mystical teleport on the sorcery pools mystic flight ability. Considering how few people seem to take longe range teleport especially imo it clearly needs something like this to make ti more appealing to players in general and compete with the ever popular super speed/super jump combo so very very many use.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

5 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Love this idea 3000!  😀  Gives me some interesting ideas for themed bases.  Please do share the codes when you have them all set up.

 

The activation time and animation could use some love as well.  Both are horrible IMO.  Wonder if it is possible to have it customizable so we can select an animation for it - kind of like costume changes?

Ive long wished that for the O portal we could pick between the techy looking wrist panel activation, and a spell caster style one so at least those who are magical themed vs those who use devices could be separate.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

19 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Things there purely for people who denigrate others' playstyles is not a positive addition to the community in any game.

 

You do realize that you just keep digging yourself further in a hole, yes?

 

You keep mentioning things along the lines of, "It only negatively affects tiny slivers of the gaming community, so I don't give a damn."  I don't know if you realize this... but RPers are a tiny sliver of the gaming community as well.  I mean, it may not seem that way to you because they have their own server... but then again, so do PvPers.  Why does your tiny sliver of the gaming community have more importance than another tiny sliver of the gaming community?  Hint: It doesn't.

because on live one of the two most active servers of coh was virtue, in fact between virtue and freedom the main meta game server where basically each about 40% of the active player population, CoH has always had a unquie draw to role players that no other MMO has ever had.

 

Meanwhile it was a fact that pvp on coh was deemed by the parent company and the developers as a failure because far too few actively made use of it, and those that did almost exclusively exploited the system to farm for the ultra valued pvp recipes.

 

So Role players typically make up in coh lets say conservatively 30% of the player base accounting for those on the RP server that dont really RP, while PvPers make up less then a single percentage point in CoH if the modern player population metrics follow the pattern of the old live servers.

 

Ive yet to see one PvPer chime in and state hey I spend all my game time in the pvp zones, and that includes staying in one like bloody bay once they reach the min level and street sweep there to lvl further. That is what someone has to do to really qualify as an active pvp zone player in coh, and no one does that. If you spend less then a fraction of your total play time in the pvp zone you cant really defend it as meaningful enough to be a reason for devs to do anything concerned with it in my book.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:26 AM, Megajoule said:

I wrote two AE arcs back in the day, that makes me a developer!

 

Wait, no, it doesn't.

 

You're not a dev. You're a player, who enjoys RP (as I do) and base building. That doesn't mean you or I or anyone hanging out in the D (both the RPers and the AE farmers) are entitled to any sort of special treatment.  We are but a few out of thousands, tens of thousands.

I dont think you got my point, my point is we all are helping in our own way to expand this game world, I didnt suggest it be just for those actively base building etc. Though you know that would be a great way to encourage and reward really well done AE arcs actually;) An honorary dev badge and a few non game breaking /commands

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, GM Sijin said:

Without knowing the actual ins and outs of the command system, this is somewhat conjecture:

Is it possible? I'd say probably. But given you want a command to play an animation, presumably root a character in place for its duration (which emotes don't do), possibly be interruptable, and then execute an effect on the character it's going to be much easier to use the system that already exists to do exactly that: Powers.

 

As for the second suggestion, that has problems as well. $$ couldn't be used as its simply issuing another command. So either you'd have to "set" your passcode before executing the power and it picks up that passcode and uses it if you select the passcode option, or change powexecname to accept an optional variable explicitly for base_teleport, and probably add a whole new tech to the powers system to accept a player variable.

 

At which point it might just be almost as easy/definitely cleaner to just make a new system designed to manage this unique function.

Thanks for the clarification.  Would seem to be a lot of work to make a whole new power/system just for this purpose alone.  Would there be any other things you could re-use this on?

 

If you were able to get a new power to work where whatever it is could accept user input via macro I think that would go a long way because it offers a solution for bookmarking.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Waypoint]

30 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Ive yet to see one PvPer chime in and state hey I spend all my game time in the pvp zones, and that includes staying in one like bloody bay once they reach the min level and street sweep there to lvl further. That is what someone has to do to really qualify as an active pvp zone player in coh, and no one does that. If you spend less then a fraction of your total play time in the pvp zone you cant really defend it as meaningful enough to be a reason for devs to do anything concerned with it in my book.

 

I PvP, in Arena and Zones, more than I do actual content at this point. Aside from the fact that it is an exploit, it ruins zones because people skip death and just hop to base to load up on things to survive. It's not fun.

 

Please stop quadruple posting. Post all your thoughts at once, or edit the post.

[John Atlas]

I have been working on a plan for series of Coalition bases (based on Hero Academies for each origin type) Needed the passcode function to facilitate crossing between bases easily. When this goes away that will be way less elegant (and less fun) unless teleport between bases is added in. (my 2 cents)

[Vitruvius]

being abused to no end in rv

[Haijinx]

Tbh i keep forgetting this game even has PVP 

 

Getting teleported to a superbase with a bunch of portals was actually more immersive than the Oro portal 

 

That said, its no big deal if it gets removed.