Official 'enterbasefrompasscode' Resolution thread

[Starforge]

Could have fooled me but I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree. 

 

But just seeing these posts about the slash command saving people 5-10 seconds of doing something else to get to the same point is pretty ridiculous.

 

I’ve used it a couple times but I’m still used to having to go to a base portal anyway or use the TP power so it’s a non-issue for me.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Starforge said:

But just seeing these posts about the slash command saving people 5-10 seconds of doing something else to get to the same point is pretty ridiculous.

This is only part of the issue.  There is more to it than that.  Read the posts from RPers who like having the option to bookmark friendly bases.

[Starforge]

Yeah, they can just write down the codes and exit the portal and re-enter it. It's not that big of a deal to not have the slash command to do it. I feel like there's some confusion going on where some people think passcodes themselves are going away. They aren't. It's just this GM command. If you have bases you want to go to, just write down the code, memerize it or coalition with the group. Pretty simple and not time consuming.

[justicebeliever]

2 hours ago, Starforge said:

But just seeing these posts about the slash command saving people 5-10 seconds of doing something else to get to the same point is pretty ridiculous.

But it's the same reason people keep buying faster personal computers...I used to wait 5-10 seconds for a web page to load on my pc...Now it's an eternity even on my phone, so much so that after 3 seconds I check how many bars I have...I used to wait 2 minutes for my PC to boot...now it takes <20 seconds...if it went 2 minutes without doing anything, I'd hard shut it down and reboot...Same reason people want to drive faster on the freeway, or get the express lane at checkout, or....

 

Once you become accustomed to fast, slow is always harder...It's really not ridiculous...

 

1 hour ago, Starforge said:

Yeah, they can just write down the codes and exit the portal and re-enter it. It's not that big of a deal to not have the slash command to do it. I feel like there's some confusion going on where some people think passcodes themselves are going away. They aren't. It's just this GM command. If you have bases you want to go to, just write down the code, memerize it or coalition with the group. Pretty simple and not time consuming.

I don't think anyone's been confused by that...I think it's the GM command that's causing the angst...It was faster and easier...who in their right mind would then want to go back to slower and harder?

 

With the exception of one poster here, who likes to post 4 times in a row (and I've ignored), I think everyone's accepted the change is coming and it won't be game breaking...It's just going to be a pain...

[Vitruvius]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:51 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Ive yet to see one PvPer chime in and state hey I spend all my game time in the pvp zones, and that includes staying in one like bloody bay once they reach the min level and street sweep there to lvl further. That is what someone has to do to really qualify as an active pvp zone player in coh, and no one does that. If you spend less then a fraction of your total play time in the pvp zone you cant really defend it as meaningful enough to be a reason for devs to do anything concerned with it in my book.

as an avid pvper, i really have no issue with the command as long as it cannot be abused in the middle of pvp like it is now...

most of us don't bother to check/post on the forums cause we too busy pvping 😉

i myself know at least 100 people that focus exclusively on pvp in this game on 1 server
 

i feel like most people would really enjoy pvp if they give it a chance... there's nothing to lose, nothing to gain.. like playing board games or throwing a ball around... there's no "winner"

 

yeah, you may die a bunch as you're learning... but you being the focus of attention may have given your team mates the opportunity to get a kill... just like pve, its all about learning your strengths and weaknesses and playing to them, and learning how to cooperate with others and their strengths and weaknesses, against others with their own strengths and weaknesses...

 

pve is like playing with your friends against robots

 

pvp is like playing with your friends against more friends

 

what sounds like more fun?

 

if you'd like to check it out but don't know where to start, feel free to reach out... most pvpers, like the rest of the coh community, are happy to help... the pvp discord is a good place as well

 

yes, there are a few toxic people, just like in pve... best just not to interact with them as most pvpers are wonderful people...

can always start with a stalker (hide + stealth IO + stealth = can't be seen by other players, except the rare spider) which allows you to observe and learn on your own time, by choosing when to pop out and strike, rather than always being a potential target

 

i'm sure the devs will come up with a logical fix for this passcode command, doesn't seem like a complicated issue... but i wanna see more of you enjoying everything this game has to offer, damnit! ❤️ 

 

/endrant

[Waypoint]

Why not retool the base teleport power to have a 30 second recharge, and give it the Reveal power animation? Then you can remove the macro.

 

Quick, simple, allows everyone to have what they want without it being an exploit. 

[justicebeliever]

3 minutes ago, Waypoint said:

Why not retool the base teleport power to have a 30 second recharge, and give it the Reveal power animation? Then you can remove the macro.

 

Quick, simple, allows everyone to have what they want without it being an exploit. 

I think they have all but committed to retooling the teleporter to have a shorter recharge and animation time...but why the reveal power?  Not sure how that connects....

[justicebeliever]

7 minutes ago, Vitruvius said:

pvp is like playing with your friends against more friends

 

what sounds like more fun?

I've been quite tenacious lately in my defense of PvP, but the reason I don't play is because the worst experiences I have ever had in game or on the forums have been due to PvPer's who behave what I would call the opposite of friendly...I am sure there are some very nice PvP'ers out there...you sound like you could be one of them...but I'm just not down for the broadcast PvP and the absolute mockery of civility that I've seen from some on the forums...

[Vitruvius]

On 8/30/2019 at 8:37 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

First of all, I will respond to and state whatever points I wish and do so ina  civil manner. You are totally in the wrong to try and tell me how to post. As long as I am not violating  the forums rules Ill post as often  as I like and respond to whomever I wish. So you can just keep your efforts at being a forum dictator to yourself. I am Bentley bloody Berkeley and you are no one of import to me.

 

As to your first complaint. Ive laready stated multiple times I am fine with an alternative that does not work in pvp as long as it preserves the QoL factor for base builders and the expanded cityscapes people are making. As for cheating death, a break free and a ethereal shift does just the same in any and every situation. In outdoor zones or on TFs people just use /ah to restock as needed some even use AH storage to stock pile meds and larges to access via the /command quickly. Death is merely an annoyance these days costing travel time at most outside of purely for bragging rights master of badges. Most would argue that travel inbetween actual playing of content is less fun then anything else.

 

Most modern online games allow for instant to mission travel to make grouping as easy and painless as possible which encourages pugging over just soloing.

 

You also admit you dont actually stay in pvp zones while leveling you clearly are one that only hangs in them after making a pvp uber build taht basically destroys all balance and fun for anyone more casual daring to enter a pvp area. Which highlights ofcourse the poor quality of the pvp design of coh as there is just too much of a possible imbalance between players in pvp even at the same lvl.

he was only mentioning cheating death in relation to pvp zones... no one cares about dying in pve... most don't care about dying in pvp either, except for a select few who like to abuse this command... exploiting the system spoils the fun...

i'm not following your logic behind pvp zones... they were never designed to be the exclusive place for pvpers to gain experience, in any game, ever... in fact, if anything, some games give pvpers full access to everything so they don't have to even bother with earning xp... the pvp zones were designed for.......... you guessed it, pvp.

 

you're correct about the huge imbalance between players in pvp... that's how pvp in any MMO works (seems like you want pvp to be more like a first person shooter where everyone is the same)... everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, you learn them, learn how to play with others, and together learn how to play against others... or you can learn how to play 1 vs 1 if that's your cup of tea, but it is an MMO afterall...

 

what it really sounds like is you tried to build yourself an uber pvper by pve'ing, and are bitter because it didn't work out how you expected... which is something actual pvpers see all the time... you didn't want to pvp, you just wanted to be the best, and you're weren't, so instead of learning the mechanics of pvp and how to play effectively within that system, you just bash it... how am i doing?

everything can be improved, but there's plenty of people enjoying pvp as it is

[Vitruvius]

20 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

I've been quite tenacious lately in my defense of PvP, but the reason I don't play is because the worst experiences I have ever had in game or on the forums have been due to PvPer's who behave what I would call the opposite of friendly...I am sure there are some very nice PvP'ers out there...you sound like you could be one of them...but I'm just not down for the broadcast PvP and the absolute mockery of civility that I've seen from some on the forums...

i'm totally with you there... trolls are trolls no matter the context... there's no reason to feed them unless you enjoy it, and the game gives us tools to mute/ignore/block and even report people... we're in control of the environment we play in and who we choose is worth responding to... growing up in the pvp world since ultima online has been quite the ride... was about 10 yrs old playing with 20+ yr old immature asshats

 

edit: it's very easy to befriend these trolls, too... have to look passed the words and see the pain 🙂

Edited September 1, 2019 by Vitruvius

[Waypoint]

28 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

I think they have all but committed to retooling the teleporter to have a shorter recharge and animation time...but why the reveal power?  Not sure how that connects....

I mean, instantly vanishing to a base makes less sense. The teleport animation in itself is kinda ugly. I'd be fine with the teleport effect animation that happens when you go through different base teleport connections.

[srmalloy]

20 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

I think you misunderstood my meaning. Your examples are mostly the way the player interacts with the game (typically interface), not the way the character interacts with the game environment. There is a sort of exception in there: /ah. It replaces your character going to WW/BM/Whatever Praetoria's is called and I'd personally like to see the command start a unique animation to signify the character is checking the AH, similar to the way using the police radio/newspaper/invention workbench plays animations to signify what the character is doing.

Well, let's bring up another example, a case where a game action does exactly what one of the core complaint about /enterbasefrompasscode is -- allow a player to skip immediately out of combat, no interrupt, no animation. How many times have people been on a TF, and they're deeply embroiled in combat, mobs three deep all around them, and the mission goal completes; the blue 'Exit' button pops up, and they click on it... and are instantly removed from combat and dropped outside the mission door. That hits squarely into the way the character interacts with the game environment. The button was put in many issues ago to address a QoL issue where characters used to have to run back through the length of the map -- sometimes down four elevators in multi-floor missions -- to get back to the mission entrance to leave the mission. But it also lets them jump out of the middle of combat, even if immobilized, stunned, held, confused, or affected by any other effect that would normally render them incapable of getting out of combat. But it's got a long history of being part of the game, and the benefit of not having to slog back out of missions is undeniable -- and the NPCs aren't going to complain about the players exploiting the Exit button to escape from combat -- so no one objects to it.

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, Starforge said:

Yeah, they can just write down the codes and exit the portal and re-enter it. It's not that big of a deal to not have the slash command to do it. I feel like there's some confusion going on where some people think passcodes themselves are going away. They aren't. It's just this GM command. If you have bases you want to go to, just write down the code, memerize it or coalition with the group. Pretty simple and not time consuming.

Everyone understand that the pass codes are not going away and we can still enter the codes at any base portal.  This isn't what the discussion is about.

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

Well, let's bring up another example, a case where a game action does exactly what one of the core complaint about /enterbasefrompasscode is -- allow a player to skip immediately out of combat, no interrupt, no animation. How many times have people been on a TF, and they're deeply embroiled in combat, mobs three deep all around them, and the mission goal completes; the blue 'Exit' button pops up, and they click on it... and are instantly removed from combat and dropped outside the mission door. That hits squarely into the way the character interacts with the game environment. The button was put in many issues ago to address a QoL issue where characters used to have to run back through the length of the map -- sometimes down four elevators in multi-floor missions -- to get back to the mission entrance to leave the mission. But it also lets them jump out of the middle of combat, even if immobilized, stunned, held, confused, or affected by any other effect that would normally render them incapable of getting out of combat. But it's got a long history of being part of the game, and the benefit of not having to slog back out of missions is undeniable -- and the NPCs aren't going to complain about the players exploiting the Exit button to escape from combat -- so no one objects to it.

I'm not sure how to respond to this @srmalloy.  Are you advocating for the NPC's?  Are they unionizing?  But seriously...the current GM command is being used as an exploit against real people in the game...It needs to go away...So what are you advocating for?  

 

My take for most people is that there are 4 things they are asking for...where do you land?

• CORE ASK - Reduce the interrupt time for the current Base Teleporter...clearly, it needs some interrupt to avoid being an exploit
• CORE ASK - Reduce the recharge time for the current Base Teleporter...something significantly less than the current 30 minutes
• Secondary Ask - Allow someway to Bookmark Bases, in the way that using the GM command allowed us to do when using it with a macro
• Nice to Have - Improve the animation, or perhaps allow customization

[Megajoule]

17 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Yes, seriously.  I really don't want to have to cut and paste.  It's a nuisance to me. 

I was going to respond to this earlier, but I was busy.  You see, I had to find someone to play the game for me, because I just can't be bothered. 😛

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, justicebeliever said:

I'm not sure how to respond to this @srmalloy.  Are you advocating for the NPC's?  Are they unionizing?  But seriously...the current GM command is being used as an exploit against real people in the game...It needs to go away...So what are you advocating for? 

I was pointing out that a similar 'exploit' is currently in use to get players out of PvE combat with no objections, noting that the NPCs are unable to raise the same complaints that PvP players have. Would we have seen any discussion about this if someone had raised the issue back on live? Without being able to hit up the devs about their thoughts on the issue, there's no real way to know, but I doubt it, because even though it's objectively not 'fair' to be able to instantly pop away from combat whether it's against NPCs or other players, they're just NPCs, and they don't really matter, do they?

 

As for what I am advocating, I described it before -- Take the existing command and add a check of the status flag that indicates whether someone is in combat to disable it when in combat, à la movement suppression. The core problem is that it is being used to escape combat to avoid defeat. Suppressing it in combat removes the problem, while retaining the rest of its functionality in other circumstances. Does it supersede the Base Teleport prestige power? Yes, but that is not in and of itself a bad thing. It has functionality the base teleporter lacks which make it more useful.

 

And I realized while cooking dinner just now that the original statement -- that heroes wouldn't use slash commands -- ignores that it's not just heroes playing the game, but villains as well, and a villain is likely to use whatever advantages they can get, as exemplified by the uninterruptible teleport escape of Nocturne in the last mission of Jim Temblor's arc, hearkening back to every cheesy unstoppable escape by villains in superhero comics, many when actively in combat.  But the core complaint here is using it to skip out to avoid defeats, which giving it the same lockout that movement suppression has would solve.

Edited September 2, 2019 by srmalloy

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Megajoule said:

I was going to respond to this earlier, but I was busy.  You see, I had to find someone to play the game for me, because I just can't be bothered. 😛

I know it's hard to imagine, but not everyone plays the same as you nor has the same tastes as you.  Perhaps you're fine with tabbing out or cut/paste / whatever.  That does not mean everyone is fine with it.

[Cinderwalker]

23 hours ago, Cinderwalker said:

This is really the only thing that is relevant to the discussion on this thread.

 

On 9/1/2019 at 6:37 PM, justicebeliever said:

 

My take for most people is that there are 4 things they are asking for...where do you land?

• CORE ASK - Reduce the interrupt time for the current Base Teleporter...clearly, it needs some interrupt to avoid being an exploit
• CORE ASK - Reduce the recharge time for the current Base Teleporter...something significantly less than the current 30 minutes
• Secondary Ask - Allow someway to Bookmark Bases, in the way that using the GM command allowed us to do when using it with a macro
• Nice to Have - Improve the animation, or perhaps allow customization

Copied this to the top of the thread.

[ShardWarrior]

On 9/1/2019 at 12:40 PM, justicebeliever said:

But it's the same reason people keep buying faster personal computers...I used to wait 5-10 seconds for a web page to load on my pc...Now it's an eternity even on my phone, so much so that after 3 seconds I check how many bars I have...I used to wait 2 minutes for my PC to boot...now it takes <20 seconds...if it went 2 minutes without doing anything, I'd hard shut it down and reboot...Same reason people want to drive faster on the freeway, or get the express lane at checkout, or....

 

Once you become accustomed to fast, slow is always harder...It's really not ridiculous...

Well put!  😀

[Burnt Toast]

16 hours ago, RayZac said:

 

Please edit your post as I never said that. 

[Lazarillo]

On 9/1/2019 at 5:37 PM, justicebeliever said:

CORE ASK - Reduce the interrupt time for the current Base Teleporter...clearly, it needs some interrupt to avoid being an exploit

Kind of secondary to that, fix the whole "teammate zoning interrupts activations" thing if it's gotta have an interrupt time (and I can understand why it would).

[RayZac]

6 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

Please edit your post as I never said that. 

????

[boggo2300]

On 9/2/2019 at 2:44 AM, Vitruvius said:

what sounds like more fun?

Without a seconds doubt,  PVE

[ninja surprise]

I think it's really sad how much the core game gets nerfed and squashed for the sake of PvP.

How about making PvP zones:

• no travel powers
• no slash commands
• no vet/P2W/temp powers
• no enhancements
• no inspirations
• just Sprint, Brawl, and your Inherent origin power

And then in PvE allow universal base transporting, travel powers without suppression, energy melee that works, and so on.

[Nericus]

Our portals do not work in pop so just disable the base passcode slash command in pvp

 

As to the Veteran power to teleport to base, I did suggest back in the day after ouro portals came out that the show teleport power and pocket d teleport power be updated.

 

Make them both where the open a portal just like ouroborus, but they have a five minute recharge time.