Hyperstrike

Basically it's a goof in Pine's. Tanks won't get Regen because it's completely boom/bust. Basically it either kills you in two shots or it can't ever kill you...

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Force Field Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Teleportation Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Deflection Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(3) Level 1: Shriek -- GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(A), GldJvl-Dam/Rech(3), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(5), GldJvl-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Acc/End/Rech(7), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(7) Level 2: Scream -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Apc-Acc/Rchg(9), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Apc-Dam%(11) Level 4: Howl -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(21) Level 6: Insulation Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21) Level 8: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A) Level 10: Recall Friend -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 12: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(25) Level 14: Dispersion Bubble -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Ksm-ToHit+(50) Level 16: Shout -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(31) Level 18: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-RechRes(31), UnbGrd-Max HP%(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45) Level 20: Amplify -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33) Level 22: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(33), Rct-ResDam%(34), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(34) Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(36) Level 26: Repulsion Bomb -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(37) Level 28: Siren's Song -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(40) Level 30: Personal Force Field -- Krm-ResKB(A) Level 32: Force Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(40), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(45) Level 38: Dreadful Wail -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(43) Level 41: Web Cocoon -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(42), SprEnt-End/Rchg(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(46), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(46) Level 44: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(46), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(48), AdjTrg-Rchg(50) Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(50) Level 49: Fly -- Frb-Stlth(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(13) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(15) Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1465;676;1352;HEX;| |78DA6594C94F136118C6BF69A7622950285BD92958B6B64347F04C14C444A9216AB| |C3693765A466BA74E87448F1EFC07F4E04559F4E27E5016BDB9FD154AD47817488C| |891E487D99F7B190CCA4935FE77997EF7DE69B99D48D99BA97676E4D09A961BAA09| |5CBE9193DA717B3BAE54B69792323F68F1A3A3BFEEBE9538BB99C326B5A193D3D6B| |E8856C773572412BE6F5AC72D12C1A99F449DBD6325745FDBC6916945923BF601BC| |57CC8B9BAA417F49269D99A6D98C5002714F63382CEFF395DA36EE505A3D475BA64| |649469D3B2164BB669A5531A2D9AD2CAB66EDD0CD3504374E63C02474512AD92106| |159785A989F0F623E31EAE5D818538E8171E69104A830BF50ADC4B5B294A00B5516| |4715709C599B0455E616C18BF5BCAFBC8ED6F81A5C6386D6C10D66CB2673816A7DF| |0E1838F16F8F0D4F026504CD4DCF6385A94043F34FF166B7ED202CED0156F003DDA| |D0A3ED1CFB0A87F8FA0A95D423B71EB961E4762247DD130EBF526E10BE828F6567D| |ECE27CCEEA7E03366EF73F005D34B3335619DA676EEDB3BC9B3F4FF65C67F33BFD1| |3ACDB807CD315EBB1F94A94F2BFAB46EA37E8719F905EE329B28B79D733DEDF0168| |1B741782BD05A1DF0D491E4590755F038F3D80438099E607EA7DA2ED476ADB136B4| |0E6E809BCCE137E05BA64EB53DD8B79E3FECED1A697DD0FA22AC95C8CA003C0CC0E| |F30FCC6E1F307D5453147F43EF71F7D002E31C796C1157095799D5A8CE0F91E7987| |9AF7CCF80766E223F889D94CF735C633F9624BFCCC259699E32BE02AF890A93E628| |6A856E15A498147150C502CC93191DCE3FDE996ABEF2EFDE810632E25E952549732| |E152265DCA9C4B39BFAFF0449579B9FA25109213F53756DFF3CACF5A8A4A87A33B0| |78A478AF04ED55D26A1877896DD6DBBAA760F57DDE37BD67007BCCB9CA29743C554| |FF007B7DE9BB| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

*Standard Code Rant* And yes. Assume that the code is still mostly spaghetti.

Go play CO for that. CoH doesn't support this sort of thing stably. Freeform CoH characters have been tried. Ripping out all the "error" checking for this stuff is non-trivial.

Spider-Man is an example of a Super-Strength scrapper. Most melee-oriented supers have SOME modicum of superhuman strength. It's kinda like the "basic package" Captain America comes in at the low end of the spectrum. He's marginally stronger than the strongest human weightlifters. He can basically chuck a motorcycle at you if necessary and he has the proper technique to take advantage of the momentum. Spidey is MUCH higher up the scale and is in the "Chuck cars around" strong if he really NEEDS to. Hulk's BASELINE is "Knock buildings down and chuck MAIN BATTLE TANKS for miles". Not even going to address "Worldbreaker". You're talking a difference in orders of magnitude. CAN Spidey fight Hulk and make him hurt? Yep. Spidey MIGHT get lucky and knock Hulk out if the fight is short and sudden. But the Hulk only REALLY needs to solidly connect ONCE and it's Spider-Salsa.

Awww no cross punch or spring attack? :( Anyway, those last two builds were Invulnerability, not WP matey ;) hehe What the?!?!?!? I KNOW I posted these to a completely different thread! Okay, while this isn't a Fighting-Free setup: S/L is just sub-SoftCap. However, a Tier2 Agility Alpha will bring you up. But WP/SS/Earth. So you've got a nice ability to take and hold aggro! Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Willpower Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(9) Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(27), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(31) Level 2: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(11) Level 4: Haymaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(13), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(19) Level 6: Fast Healing -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(34) Level 8: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(9), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(11) Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(46), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(48), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng:50(48), MckBrt-Rchg:50(48) Level 12: Rise to the Challenge -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(43) Level 14: Quick Recovery -- PrfShf-End%:50(A) Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(17), Rct-ResDam%:50(17) Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(19) Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(25), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(25) Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(23) Level 24: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A) Level 26: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(40), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46) Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29) Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(31) Level 32: Strength of Will -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(34) Level 35: Stone Prison -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(37) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40) Level 41: Fossilize -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg:50(42), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(42), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(42), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(43) Level 44: Stalagmites -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(46) Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(50) Level 49: [Empty] Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(40), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(50) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(50) ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1423;659;1318;HEX;| |78DA6594CB6F125114C6EF0C432B14A4D0B785B6202D2D2D53A9DDBBB0D5444BD20| |4A34B42DA2B8C452080519726D6C74E5BAB1B5F4B5F71E56BE9EB6FB03EB6BEE32B| 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The above build presumes the use of a Tier-2 Agility to make SoftCap, but F/C is ALREADY pushing Incarnate Softcap. Steal one slot from two powers slotted with Winter-Os, drop them into Invincibility and Tough Hide and drop a generic Defense IO in and you're "magically" soft-capped to all 6 primary Typed WITHOUT the Alpha. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(7) Level 1: Jab -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech:50(33), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End:50(33), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech:50(34), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(34) Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(5), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg:50(7) Level 4: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(33) Level 6: Dull Pain -- Heal-I:50(A) Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(9), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(11) Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(34), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(37), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(40) Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(19) Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(15), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(15) Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(17) Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(19), ShlWal-Def:50(50) Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(25), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(29) Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(23) Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(25) Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(27), ShlWal-Def:50(46) Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29) Level 30: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A) Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A) Level 35: Hurl -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(37) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(40) Level 41: Stone Prison -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(43), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(43) Level 44: Fossilize -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg:50(45), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(46) Level 47: Stalagmites -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(50) Level 49: [Empty] Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(43), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(46) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(50) Level 50: Agility Radial Boost ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1460;673;1346;HEX;| |78DA6D94C94F136118C6BF69A7404BD9970265910AB214060BDC3D081A95262418A| |FA4C2271D694AD316234713D79B82E8C5F5E67E724BBCB8FD056E80FB3FE0721097| 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In support of this: Quickie Inv/SS/Earth Tank Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(7) Level 1: Jab -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech:50(33), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End:50(33), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech:50(34), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(34) Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(5), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg:50(7) Level 4: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(33) Level 6: Dull Pain -- Heal-I:50(A) Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(9), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(11) Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(34), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(37), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(40) Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(19) Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(15), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(15) Level 16: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(17) Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(19) Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(25), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(29) Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(23) Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(25) Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(27) Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29) Level 30: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A) Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A) Level 35: Hurl -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(37) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(40) Level 41: Stone Prison -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(43), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(43) Level 44: Fossilize -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg:50(45), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(45), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(46), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc:50(46) Level 47: Stalagmites -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(50), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc:50(50) Level 49: [Empty] Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(43), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(46) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(50) Level 50: Agility Radial Boost ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1460;672;1344;HEX;| |78DA6D944953135114855F271D202110E60061900832048201F62E042D95545185E| |5966AE1495A522195044B965639EE1444378E3BE79563B971FC034E80F31F705888| 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Okay, a super-expensive build can get you a Soft-Capped Invuln setup that DOES NOT REQUIRE THE FIGHTING POOL! No mule attack you never use. No Cross-Punch. No Tough. No Weave. Nor the resultant, ongoing Endurance drain from the toggles! So this leaves you with power choices late in the build and a fairly hefty Endurance budget to use them.

Heh. "Didn't want to have people zerg-die-zerg through content." Sounds kind of funny in the face of Jack Emmert's direct statement that 'fun', for him, was throwing yourself at the big boss again and again, getting defeated over and over and over again, until you figured out what the one tactic that would let you defeat them was. Which is a little ironic in the age of the internet, where when a solution is found, it's all over the net in days at most, and the challenge switches to how effectively you can follow the go-by -- and how well you can recover when something goes Tango Uniform in the process. EXACTAMUNDO!

4k should be fine as it's 16:9 can anyone confirm? My setup's just ever so slightly taller than 16x9 16x9 for 6480 is 3645. For the picture above? You're probably having it conk at roughly 3240. 4K is 3840x2160.

For Lethal and Melee? Yep. But Invuln ins primarily TYPED Defense. And if you're being nuked with Ranged/E/N or AoE/F/C, Parry doesn't do much for you. Besides, overcapping of S/L defense is generally NOT a problem on Invuln. Ideally, with Invuln, you want to cap yourself to 6 of the 7 Damage Types. Unsure if it's possible to cap Psi Defense on an Invuln. Never actually tried. Once that's accomplished, you want to look at beefing up your Resists as much as possible. In the game, there are very EFFICIENT ways of doing this and taking care of your attacks simultaneously. Six-slotting most of your Defense/Resist powers isn't one of them. Great. My entire schpiel got EATEN because I forgot to close a QUOTE markup... Once more unto the breach. Now, I'm pretty sure I NEVER said "there's no specific set bonus to chase after". If I DID, it was me mis-speaking or a typo or immense magnitude. As I said above, there are many ways to achieve boosts to various attributes like Defense and Resist. The main problem with sacrificing attacks for max-slot Resist/Defense is that most of those bonuses are primarily POSITIONAL boosts. Invuln is TYPED. Below is what happens when you chase after six-slotted Resists and Defenses, compared to the numbers for the build I dropped up-thread. It doesn't look TOO bad on the surface. Until you realize that the second you exemp, you're toast. Note: Just ignore the Misc Effects section. I didn't slot those powers as they added nothing really to the basic survivability or the point I was making. And yes, you can claim you'll "never exemp". I don't play that way. And I don't really know a lot of people who truly DO. And you can claim that their effectiveness will be "effectively identical". But we both know that isn't true. And using Regular IOs doesn't work because of Diminishing Returns. In short, you get the full effect of the first IO. Roughly 95% of the second. 1/3rd of the third. 1/6th of each additional. Basically, for something like Weave, beyond the 2nd IO, taking Combat Jumping and not even slotting it gives you greater returns than slotting a 3rd Defense IO in Weave does... It ACTUALLY yields you a HALF PERCENT MORE DEFENSE. Whereas CJ is 2.5% unslotted. Now I'm NOT saying the way *I* build is "THE ONE TRUE WAY" or "The Best" or any BS like that. I'm simply saying there are ways to build for exceptional effectiveness across a large swath of content at various levels. Chasing positionals or overslotting Generics simply ISN'T one of those ways. And most of these builds I'm dropping are off-the-cuff, based on 11 years of intimate familiarity with Invuln. And they are, likely, not the mathematically MOST optimal builds. But they're likely as close as you're going to get without massive amounts of skull-time in Mids and expensive (Build-wise) extensive testing.

This factor became more and more important, and is especially crucial in late added content. The only way to stay in the game is not to get hit. Not quite. One way to stay in the game is to not get hit. The other way is to be tough enough to survive whatever you DO get hit by.

Okay, tried this a couple days ago and it wouldn't post through. The only reason I still maintain a CO account is that I traded for an LTO . So it costs me nothing. Anyhow, why CoH is superior. 1: Nicely configurable UI. Not PERFECT, but you can tweak stuff easy. CO, you get the default UI and you gotta like it or lump it. * 2: Better teaming. CO maxes at 5 players. A team in CoH is just larger and more capable. And if that isn't enough? LEAGUES. 3: Cryptic SUCKS at maintaining systems. Half the cool systems in CO are just BROKEN. And it's been all "lick and promise" for fixing them for most of the last 9 years. 4: Limited content. There's lots to do in CO. Sure. But I've effectively done EVERYTHING in the game several times over. CoH still had the edge in total amount of playable content. THEN they added AE, and content options effectively became unlimited. 5: The conversion to lockboxes. At this point, CO is clown shoes about it. It's such that much of the best stuff is locked up in Lockboxes AND account-bound. So they just crapped all over the Market. 6: Literally NO balance in the game. The various ATs are okay at most of the standard content. But some of the content goes from "Standard" to "Rip Your Head Off And **** Down Your Neck" with no warning. And in a lot of cases, it can be unsurvivable for many ATs and even a lot of Freeforms. 7: Shit content design. I can understand that they didn't want to have people zerg-die-zerg thrugh content. But with some of the epic content consisting of boss fights that can take 30-60 minutes, player lockouts are Just Effing Dumb. So if you go into a pickup group with people who haven't got any ally rezzes, you either die and lay on the ground with your *AHEM!* in your hand. Or you rez, then wait outside the fight with your *AHEM* in your hand. 9: * Console compromise. Basically there are various areas in the game (as noted in #1) where compromises were made in anticipation of a console port. As such, PC players were artificialy limited in their choices for a console port that never actually came to fruition. In the end, for CO, Cryptic took every lesson they learned building and maintaining CoH and SHITCANNED it in favor of Jack's preference for "fuzzy numbers". Oh well. At least the Champions RPG got a cash infusion out of it...

Hashtag TankStealth!

In most cases, that's with 1 enemy in range of Invincibility. After 2-3 enemies, you're over soft-cap and It's All Good. As to Mathematics, Arcana worked out on Live that Defense was just slightly over 2x better than equivallent Resistance. So if you had a choice between +2% Defense and +4% Resist, you were better off with the additional Defense (up to Soft-Cap of course). And please remember that Defense is totally binary. You either take 0 damage or you take all of it. Resistance is a whole other ballgame. So beefing up Resists underneath Defense is STILL a winning strategy. And it's not like an "optimal" build is going from 90/25/30 (S/L, E/N, F/C) to 90/27/34. You're usually going to 90/40-something/60-Something. So the gains are significant. Let the others pooh-pooh experience or the math behind it. All that matters in the end is that you're still going to be alive after something CRAZY and your teammates will be looking at you going "HOLY CRAP! HOW DID YOU DO THAT!". Then, it's truly good to be The Tank.

Okay, Pretend I know nothing about the game and explain how to judge over-slotting and under-slotting. Okay, pop a copy of your build up next to the build I supplied you, then read my response. For defenses, you're usually hitting Diminishing Returns in about 3 slots when slotting.So slotting more stuff in REALLY isn't giving you any benefit. Now, if you have spare slots (yeah...like THAT happens), and you're chasing a SPECIFIC set bonus here or there...okay. Six-slotting your armors? Unless half those slots are uniques (+Def, +Rech, +PsiResist, Scaling Resist, etc), you're wasting slots. Also, you've six-slotted things like HOVER. Granted there's no space to throw more Defense into other things (because you didn't take them) and all your other defenses are full-up. But it makes more sense (more economical on a per-slot basis) to take another of the pool Defense powers (like Combat Jumping) than it does to max out slots on one power. And you've leaned into your armors at the expense of your attacks. You have three attacks with any sort of Damage enhancement. And MOST of your attacks are given the mere pittance of a single generic +Acc IO! I know that tanks come up short on damage compared to Brutes and Scrappers. But this basically renders you incapable of killing ANYTHING in a reasonable amount of time. Heck, running +2, +3 or +4, you're going to have trouble HITTING anything On an Invuln tank in an end-game build. If you're not within like 3% of 90% S/L Resist, you've essentially failed. Unstoppable is an utter waste of a power choice. It's a crutch of a god-mode with a nasty crash. You can do better just by building better. You only put into your armors what you absolutely HAVE to. Start diddling around in Mid's/Pine's and learn what your necessary set bonuses are. It's about safety in LAYERS. Very few other armor sets have the balance of Defense/Resist/Healing that Invuln does. And trying to simply cap your defenses and calling it done leaves you open to eggshelling (you've skimped on mitigation for damage taken, so when something can reliably crack your defenses, you start smootching the linoleum...A LOT. Okay, while it IS possible to soft-cap Invuln WITHOUT the Fighting Pool, Fighting simply makes it easy-street. And since the Fitness Pool is now free, you essentially lose NOTHING by choosing it. Sure, Kick/Boxing are essentially wasted power picks, they can be useful as mule powers. But Tough and Weave are God's gift to anyone looking to max their S/L Resist and their Defenses. And for Bob's sake! Slot up your attacks! Dead enemies produce 0 damage to Defend, Resist or Heal against! For Invuln, the attack sets that're your friends. The two ATIO sets. The Winter-O sets (especially for PBAOE and Melee. They provide big bumps to your S/L and F/C Defenses (and F/C Resists). If you have a Ranged attack or a Hold of some sort, that gives you a double bite at some great E/N Defense buffs as well. Mako's Bite gives you a nice little stop-gap bump to E/N Defense. Eradication gives some nice E/N defense but it's a low level set. Pair it with 3 slots of Cleaving Blow, and it adds a bit more E/N defense and brings a 6-slotted attack into the "Acceptable" range. Note: My default slotting for Health is pretty much ALWAYS: Panacea +HP/+Endurance Numina's Convalescence: +Regen/+Recovery Miracle: +Recovery If I can fit it in someplace, the Regenerative Tissue: +Regen is a Nice To Have. MUST HAVES (as you can afford them): Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def Gladiator's Armor: +Def Nice To Haves (if you can fit them in): Shield Wall: +Res Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage Aegis: Psionic/Status Resistance Kismet: Accuracy +6% (Is ACTUALLY +6% TO HIT) Impervium Armor: Psionic Resistance The Shield Wall and Reactive Defenses are really nice. as they shore up your Resists underneath your Defenses. The Psi Resist stuff is neat as it partially closes the "Psi Hole", making Psi-heavy enemies less of an issue. And the +ToHit is always nice because "Hitting Things Is Good". Also, while buidling for soft-cap (45% Defense, 90% Resist) is nice and all, building too far above it sometimes means you're passing up other opportunities to shore up your "total package". In some cases, it's possible to build WELL beyond the Incarnate Soft Cap (59% Defense). F/C Defense can be one of these areas. So keep an eye out when you start pushing too far beyond standard Soft Cap. Because Invincibility is your friend. If you're soft-Capped at 1 enemy, you're going to be pushing around 55% Defense at enemy saturation (10 enemies).

Hurl's a perfectly legit substitution. I generally prefer LBE due to the faster activation times. But to each his own.

It's also your Mez protection too.

Numbers larger than twenty-four are witchcraft. Nobody I know has that many fingers and toes. Never seen a conjoined twin have you?

No. Actually Tanking is soft combat-control. Either by controlling aggro, or absorbing damage from enemies so your teammates don't have to. And by absorbing I mean: Avoiding (Defense) Reducing (Resistance) Surviving (Heal/Regen) Sorry, that's incorrect at a base level. Avoiding damage requires you to have aggro for damage to avoid. Reducing damage requires you to have aggro for damage to resist. Surviving requires you to have aggro for damage to heal/regen. Yes. Because there's NOTHING a Sentinel can do to generate aggro. Nothing I say! Nothing AT ALL! C'mon man. My default playstyle is "tank it all". And, pretty much, I have. On every AT available.

Capping the FPS will help keep the CPU and GPU cooler. And yes, CoH DOES whack graphics setup differently than a lot of the games you're used to. Things like SLI don't really provide the benefit you think it would. Like it does in other games. A modern, multi-core proc will handle the game just fine. And a modern NVIDIA/ATI graphics solution in the system will simply burp and scream for more stuff to do. There's also the problem of playing at ultra-high resolutions on a regular (11-15") laptop is something you REALLY don't want to exceed 1920x1080 for (if you even want to play at that resolution. At 1920x1080, stuff at default 100% size in the game can be unreadable. Leading to you needing to tweak the UI and increase font sizes. 4K? On anything less than a 17" system? Don't do it. I have 20/20 vision and I'm sorta rueing the decision to go with the 15" 4K screen upgrade. In Windows I'm using screen magnification on both my laptop AND my desktop. Otherwise I'd go walleyed trying to read anything. Attached is a screenshot of my desktop, down-sampled to 1822x1080 (3x 27" 4K monitors in Portrait mode, fused with NVSurround for a final resolution of 6480x3840). Showing what a remotely controlled 1920x1080 screen looks like on my machine.

You're rather badly overslotted on TempInvuln, Unyielding, Weave and Health.. Not a fan of Cross Punch. Think it's a waste Much prefer a ranged attack. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Teleportation Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(5) Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(7), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(9) Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13) Level 4: Dull Pain -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(19), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg:50(19), Pnc-Heal:50(21) Level 6: Haymaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(25) Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(27), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(27), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(29), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(29) Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt:50(A), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg:50(31), PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(31), PrfZng-Acc/Rchg:50(31), PrfZng-Dam%:50(33) Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(33), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34) Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(34), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(36), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(36) Level 16: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A) Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(37) Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(39), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(39) Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(40), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(40) Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(42) Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(43), Rct-ResDam%:50(43) Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43) Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(45) Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(45) Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(48) Level 41: Laser Beam Eyes -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(50), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(50), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(50) Level 44: Physical Perfection -- RgnTss-Regen+:30(A) Level 47: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A) Level 49: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I:50(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Clr-Stlth:50(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A) Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(13), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(15) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc:50(15), PrfShf-EndMod:50(17) Level 50: Agility Core Paragon ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1467;688;1376;HEX;| |78DA6594594F135114C7EFB453B1A585B216E85E96522803459EF541D0A8342181F| 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No. Actually Tanking is soft combat-control. Either by controlling aggro, or absorbing damage from enemies so your teammates don't have to. And by absorbing I mean: Avoiding (Defense) Reducing (Resistance) Surviving (Heal/Regen)

Okay. Not sure what happened. But I posted to this thread earlier. If you're at 87.3 and you have the Scaling Resist Unique from Unbreakable Guard, you essentially have 90% S/L from the second you first take any damage at all. I more or less agree with Heraclea.