Replacement

Please don't insinuate this was an intentional nerf. They're volunteers trying their best to make good decisions. You want to argue this isn't working? Make your case like ScarySai has done and you'll probably find a sympathetic ear in the developers. Leave the accusations on the WoW forums.

Not in 'Nam, of course.

That's fair, I like challenging the status quo. But my point is that what you laid out in the OP can be absolutely true, and yet the ATs could still be unbalanced.

I would suggest folks consider the difference between roles and methods. Everyone understands that Scrappers, Blasters, and Stalkers all fill the role of applying the "very dead" status effect to enemies, but they do so differently. This is fine. So is hybridization and blurring of the lines. This is the sort of thing, in fact, that you really cannot get out of any game with a "party finder" mechanism, where you queue for a role and you're expected to only perform in that role. Short version: I suggest not getting lost in the weeds of labeling, or accusing others of labeling. We all intuitively know all of this. Broadly true, but there's something to be said about the degree of this comparison. Let's say we were to rate the different ATs on a 10 point scale. The following is made-up numbers to illustrate a mathematical concept. It is not true or indicative of the real world. Tanking: Stalker 2, Scrapper 5, Brute 9, Tanker 10 Damage: Stalker 10, Scrapper 7, Brute 6, Tanker 2 In both cases, the Brute technically falls in line, but the gap between them and the neighboring ATs is distorted. They should be a 7 for tanking and a 5 in Damage (again, just for this mathematical model that has nothing to do with real performance). General consensus seems to be that while Stalkers and Scrappers can marginally outperform Brutes in damage output, it's broadly not equivalent to the amount of survivability they give up to gain this edge. Cheers

BUG: I'm an idiot. Thanks, Bopper. I'm a level too low.

Resolution: level up, ya dummy. Archetype: Tanker Powerset: Shield Defense Power: True Grit Enhancement: Numina's Convalescence: Regeneration/Recovery Text claims it takes healing Enhancement sets, but will not take my Numina's. Note that it does correctly take Resist and Healing standard enhancements.

More likely an increased maximum number of costume parts. @Vea did you ever have any luck recovering? How about reproducing on a different toon? Alternatively, can you say what arc this was on an we can try to repro?

I say it in every such thread: I want that name releaser mechanism to actually get implemented. HC's rules aren't even hard. I'm sure I'll regret being this blunt post-coffee, but if you've actually read the proposed name release policy and still think it's unreasonable, you're either: A) a reactionary who still hasn't let the details sink in or B) an ass.

@ScarySai it had its own beta patch. I'm not saying it's ready for primetime but to set the record straight. The real issue is simply not enough people on test server. Especially in those early days. As a sidenote, I feel like I remember a discussion or suggestion about it not having any magnitude unless modded for it. It must not have gone far/been a pipe dream. EDIT: now that it's taking Taunt sets and could have impact if removed, would something like more HP and defense be reasonable instead of removing the taunt?

This is what I was thinking but I didn't actually see it in the patch notes from when Devices changes went live. I definitely remember them discussing it on the Beta forums though. I even remember agreeing with their reasoning (though I don't remember what that reasoning was). I'm actually curious if it wasn't supposed to be included in the Live build but accidentally shipped. The taunt was added 2 weeks after the other Devices buffs, along with some bug fixes.

Even with the biasing, this is my concern. Particularly on powers with 80%+ base chance already - a build will naturally get enough accuracy to see this weakness erased. I'm glad y'all had your 3 page slugfest already, I'm not going to rehash any of that. But this WOULD have huge, unintended distortions. Ok and that said, I still really think it's cool. I'd be all for rolling it to PB as suggested to see what it does to builds. I'd also like to mention that I'm not sure I would tie it entirely to accuracy. It's certainly the easiest option, but I could see having it scale with knockback enhancements instead. tl;dr: my mind see the same risks as Wavicle, but I still think it would be a cool idea to explore. (And it's not my place to decide HC priorities so it's meaningless to bring up)

I know this is kinda random, but I've always wanted to see a Time Travel set, but as soon as I realize that title isn't yet used, it dawns on me that it has to have a Travel power, and thus be a power pool. That'd be cool but I don't know that Bio Armor alone provides enough impact. It feels like it'd need combined with some other effects, like Spines.

I don't really disagree with most of what you said, but did want to mention this part: I honestly don't think that's too big of a problem. For me, it's more about the ability to play more powerset combos. So as long as it feels like a Control set, I don't mind if it's pretty similar to the Manipulation set. As for "how," I'd start with the assumption (eep) that making an aoe version of the ST immobilize wouldn't be too hard. With that done, Manipulation provides 4-5 powers with numbers tweaks (less damage, better uptime of mez). From there, I kind of figure something that looks like a middle ground between Gravity Control (damage) and Ice (recharge penalties) would be doable but... again, I think that's leaving the realm of Eco-friendly.

I am so a fan of all the Blast and Control sets. I can't be the only person who thinks those 2 pools, specifically, or criminally understaffed. Also, for Telekinetic Blast, I've always been of a mind that we could just about make a set that is 6-8 Propel clones, but with different tables of potential summonable junk to go along with stat differences. @TyrannicalHave you, by chance, looked into any options for Time Control? At some point in the first months of Homecoming, I had jotted down some notes on what I felt it would take to turn Temporal Manipulation into a Control set. I lost my notes, but I remember it wouldn't have scored well on your "recycled" report card.

I think I realized the reason this whole topic seems to resonate so much: it injects personality on our characters that we didn't really ask for. You know. In the one game in the world where even non-RPers tend to mentally write the stories of their characters? I think even ones we personally find annoying would be bearable... if we didn't feel like it was actively undermining the characterization that tends to exist in our heads. I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic about this. We've all survived worse. But I am trying to convey that this isn't just idle pet peevery.

...This was a Warframe static, wasn't it?

Can't lie. I actually think this is the correct course of action for the types of players who feel like they need to be level 50 just to decide if they like a character. But it's established that I don't like Fun, or AE, so... you know. Don't worry, you don't have to tell me how miserable I am.

Mad respect for being courteous and reflective. Thanks. Entirely self-serving suggestion, lol. I have an electric control dominator that doesn't get a lot of benefit from domination (knockdowns and the sleep pulse -- which does NOT gain the benefit of domination). So the end refill and the mez protection are the only real draws for that character. Mostly, though, I was just trying to throw out suggestions that would shake up playstyle significantly, or add a new thematic element, without simply turning them into a different AT.

@Haijinx I don't understand you. You seem to be trying to belittle the entire idea with paper tiger arguments of making ATs into other ATs or hyperbolize them into uselessness? Considering all the suggestions we have for new ATs, this seems reasonable to at least read and not make fun of. Seriously, it's ok to think through ideas that aren't your own with an open mind. I promise it cannot hurt you. -- Mastermind: slot to change faction, depending on chosen power set (Ninjas become Tsoo, Thugs become Hellions, Necromancy becomes banished pantheon). Dominator: double duration but remove +Mag of Domination.

Tested to confirm: Power Drone is now functioning correctly for me. Thanks, CP!

@VileTerror That's the sort of thing that's making me think "Power Boost, and on a decent cooldown" would be an interesting Taunt replacement. Like, if the duration was low enough that you could only get 1-2 augmented de/buffs off with it, but it would be up again a minute later? That could be enough to give some cool decision points about which of your de/buffs you want to keep in the stratosphere while having all the other numbers be in the Controller realm. But likely, it would end up being Melee/Support. Also, absolutely agree about "because we want to" and that's enough justification for me. But that said, I try to get as analytical as possible about how to make it not be a complete trap. But on-the-level: I want it like Sentinel. "Slightly weak but ok" through testing and initial launch. Let people come, experience it, figure out how they feel, then drift back to the City on their regular ATs. Then use that data to decide where it's lacking. Trick Arrow I looked again at this set and realized it really would not be hard to include. Suggested Change: Roughly double the -ToHit of Flash Arrow and -Recharge of Glue Arrow. That's a starting point just to get it to where the other sets start - that is to say, still in need of a minor power shuffle and deciding which one goes away for Mez protection. I suggest making their mez bubble be targeted AOE as a break from pattern. Storm Swap Gale and O2 Boost (future-proofing for the inevitable turnabout of Melee to Primary. Either 02 boost becomes aoe (base Cooldown * 5, if not more) OR Hurricane gets a new version that trades out KB for mez protection. I would lean towards the O2 Boost change, and the knowledge that Sudden Acceleration exists.

@Heraclea Isn't Dark Melee > Shadow Maul just a DoT that ticks while the animation is playing? This makes me think the tech's there to at least front-load heals at the start of a Regen animation (though it still wouldn't work mid-Staff-dance). @Haijinx It would be a detriment to existing Brutes, but I think a small chance of Confuse on an SR taunt toggle (Tauggle?) would be a lot of fun. Think: crawling out of a cartoon dogpile.

"Silent" design goals (things that risk me rambling too much to go into in an OP): Don't endanger other ATs. My choices were to step on the toes of Defenders or Tankers, and I decided to avoid Tanker. Call it bias, or an expectation that non-Defender numbers would be enough to keep them protected. Yes, I expect it to fall short of Defender numbers by quite a bit. Design around an assumption of better-than-Corruptor DPS. In a perfect world, Scrappers would be at the top of the damage heap, blasters only slightly behind, and there would be a lot of room between there and Corruptors. All we can do is plan on ideals and aim just-above Corruptor, but the nature of Support sets means this may be messy enough to revisit. Create subtle nudges towards different metas. The whole premise is one power gets traded out for an aoe mez power that requires you to be in pbaoe range of the Interceptor (or-whatever-you-name-it). This is intended to allow nonnstandard builds and playstyles to run to the front with the Interceptor. This is a common goal for me. If you read my Operative by chance, I gave it an aoe immobilize for a similar reason. Not a jack-of-all-trades. I want players to understand, in the same way they do a Tanker or a Defender, what this AT is capable of when they seem them in a Search list. Obviously, increase build diversity. Whether or not it's a good reason for a new AT, a lot of us dislike ranged combat but enjoy Support. It's not out-of-line to want to see this realized in a way that isn't just "Cross-punching Defender." I say this as someone who Likes most of your posts around here, Bossk but... did you read this suggestion? Stacks for survival, though being discussed, is not part of the OP. Having direct armor is: Ice Shield projected base defense: 11.25% (Controller/MM numbers, which is what I've been advocating) Comparison point: Scrapper Ice Armor: 12.75% defense. Darkest Night -22.5% damage and -11.25% ToHit Built-in Mez protection Survival? yes. "Toggles stolen directly from Armor sets"? No.

Ok, so I need to plow ahead with some thoughts before I get pulled away again. (Why is it as soon as I post a thread that I know puts me in the crosshairs, I get busy?) Passive Details and Options: There is one aspect I intentionally left out of the OP because I simply didn't know if it was asking too much, so I'll put to you here: How ridiculous would it be to create a sort of "Minimum Defense and Resist" for such a class? What I'm thinking is something that would check combat monitor and say "If I don't see a given Defense has enough buffs to hit 10%, increase Defense to 10%." And likewise, a monitor on Resist, probably to the tune of 15% resist. This seems very challenging, programmatically. It would need to monitor every defense and resist type, and it would need to account for debuffs (e.g. it can't just ignore -40% defense and set your defense at 10, still). It's also, of course, a bit boring. What I like more is much like I had mentioned in my previous post to @HelBlaiz -- keeping my "Damage for using Support" but also adding their +survival when dealing damage. This is ultimately where I'd like to see the AT go, but it starts to look like an insanely-stacked passive. This means what I'm really looking for is a way to word a massive combo-passive to not look so daunting. As for the +Survival benefit -- The only issue with simple +resist (again, @HelBlaiz) is what it looks like on, say, Thermal. If your Support set already gives a ton of Resist, this gets weird. I think a smaller amount of Resist and Defense would be good, especially since as an Inherent, we can get away with flagging it unenhanceable. You could also increase stack duration and benefit magnitude while decreasing stack size to 3 to help in scenarios where you are forced to rely more on your Support than your puchitude. A really interesting alternative is a +Absorb shield (iirc, internally, these buffs are always +Max absorb as well as +current absorb). These can afford to be much longer-duration buffs because they have their own mechanism for getting used up (taking damage). It also provides an easy way to "read" your current survivability. Confront, Taunt, maybe even Build Up One thing I had also considered was moving Mez protection to the Confront/Taunt replacement. I'm curious to know if folks feel like this would be "out of line" in a melee set. The larger issue to me is actually the "mez bubbles" that do exist in the Support sets. These often give benefits you really want on your melee/support tbh, if you absolutely had to have an armor toggle, it would be better-placed here than in the support. You could even drop Build Up for a 2nd defensive trick, though I'd rather veer away from that direction. All that said, however, I'm instead looking more towards "unburdening the Inherent." As an example, if the class overall has Mastermind buff values, we could replace Confront with a passive +buff values on allies (again, if that's even needed -- my assumption from other threads is folks will have a cow if I don't include this). [[Oh hey! @Leogunner! I just realized I forgot something in my OP that probably affects your reading. I was thinking "this would also affect debuffs you cast on others, which is 100% of them." I think I must have trimmed this part out so much that I deleted it completely. It's not really noticeably different from simply "higher AT modifiers on debuffs than on buffs" but either way - I did think about this and you're right, I forgot to call it out.]] Alternatively and most-simply -- going back to @Tyrannical said would be straight to the point. Having normally low-ish modifiers and simply being able to Power Boost them every once in a while would most likely provide everything we need and buy us room for a simpler passive.