plainguy

Ahh.. So basically your that player.. Which I don't mind, because a team only really needs 3 full defense capped players to just about run anything on what needs 8 people. But the reality is you are not slotting anything and then having the team carry you. That means your just as good a Tier one pet on a 8/4 setting. It's funny. I switch builds once to make sure I had the right powers for a lower level task force to help out and then slotting everything with SO lighting fast to help out the team and you are running around with nothing..

I clearly said my petless mastermind are much better equipped than my other masterminds. Don't be cheesy and try to spin this into something it isn't I am picking you apart on you stating you really don't playing masterminds. I have plenty of Masterminds in both directions. I have almost 4 pages of level 50 IO characters. One of those pages is Petless and Semi-Petless masterminds, I think it 2 characters short of a full page. Mind you also some of those masterminds are also full pet as well. I also have about 1 full page of full pet masterminds. I don't know what a full page is number wise.

That is a one time deal those HP you are talking about.. Once the pets get wiped your bodyguard mode is nothing. Further you need the proper secondary to keep them alive to keep this ability going. Trick Arrow for example has no healing. Others sets like O2 from storm are single target. If you ever really played masterminds you know that you get wiped and then sometimes you loose the Tier 1s in a resummon after the pet wipe. They have the same single target potential as any other Arch Type against AV.. Just other Arch Types are paying less for their powers.

And see this is where you reading someone else's post now has turned this into a petless mastermind thread.. It has nothing to do with petless masterminds.. Please don't bring it in that direction

Negative.. You just pigeon holed me into a stereotype.. I play many masterminds. As a matter of fact this came from my Robot Trick Arrow Mastermind which is full pet. I was going for a Flying Fortress build, where they would group fly around attacking from the air but in the end it just looks nice outside going from mission to missions. Slightly useless and clunky inside missions especially building hallways which flying doesn't matter and caves in which pets get stuck on the ceiling. Further I understand completely what is involved with creating a petless or semi petless mastermind build. These are my creations for my own fun.. I don't group with anyone, I solo. I know the limitations with them per say. I usually do not take the personal attacks and work with just supporting my pets.. But as I decided to venture into taking attack powers. I notice that there is no full tilt per say with a mastermind and attacking. Again, I use the num keypad method of controlling my pets. I command them all to attack one target, usually the bosses and I work on the lower con mobs. Again this all depends on the primary an secondary. I usually open up with AOE attacks. Thus the Photon Grenade attack. Thus the noticeable endurance drop. Again I don't besmirch someone who decides they want to take every travel power or full medicine line or even both.. To me that is excessive and gimping the character. In my defense of my petless mastermind builds I can solo 3/8 setting. The average player whom is also probably not even on these forums or looking at mids can't..

Of course you don't want to.. Answering backwards here You never slotted a SO since live ? Then how do you level up during regular game play ? Unless you Power level your way up and go straight to Inventions. You have to slot something ? SO or DO.. Well to be fair you don't but that must be some slow game play. If you are playing at 1/-1 setting then yea your pets will last forever.. But again this is about attack power endurance cost. I already did some simple testing. I was able to kill off the same mob type with just about the same endurance as it takes to summon and upgrade pets with another toon. The only difference was the kill was tons faster.. Again I have countless of petless masterminds.. You cannot level a mastermind without pets and just attacks on a regular build even 6 slotting endurance because the endurance drain is just too massive. I have attempted it several times. You need to buy P2P and base buffs to limp along. The only way is to Power level them to 50 and then work your IO build around endurance and the power sets along with incarnate choices.. EG Kin is a winner here. But some build require cardiac. Again there is something inherently wrong if the endurance drain is that massive.

I see the volunteer page has a lot of people looking. I get it though, it could be like American Idol where they think they can sing but they can't.. I always wished the original game would have went this way as well. Shooting fireball from a staff or wand.. Energy Blast from chest .. Full auto from a shoulder gun. ETC.. Bonfire from a grenade or Molotov cocktail. Aid Other and/or Aid Self from some hovering drone. Crossbow or Hand Crossbow for archery powers. I think instead of adding content, which is GREAT.. But the game does have a lot.. Tons of story arch, Missions, Task Forces.. Something like this which is WORK , but there is game breaking issues with it per say.. Meaning it won't cause an imbalance in the game that you will be constantly be needing to chase down and fix. I say teach the volunteers whom want to animate how or what needs to be done in the system and let them submit work.. And it doesn't have to be all or nothing.. If adding wands and staves to fire animations, and only fire is easiest then that is what comes first.. No need to have to pump out different animations for every power set all at once. Again I get this is pie in the sky stuff.

Was gonna post the exact same thing.

how do you determine your DPS ?

Anyone want to break down who they were supposed to be ? I have no clue who the winner was suppose to be.

I usually run solo don't want to cause any static..

I have a Robot EA I have shelved atm. Might look to work on it a bit more seeing this thread.

Been playing around with Robot Trick Arrow Group Fly and I gave up as it was just too cumbersome. I went with a semi petless build then starting rolling back to a full pet build. This is what I have ATM. This is a bit of a faster recharge on Oil Slick then I have on my Semi Petless build so it will help out with getting Oil Slick up for the next fight. Only Agility Partial Core Revamp is slotted and Protector Bots buff is on. So you are defense capped for S/L/E/N and 2 points short for Melee and Range. Fire and Cold are at 37%. S/L Resistance is capped. My play style is keep pets back, Flash Arrow, Glue Arrow as I am running into melee range. Oil Slick, Electric Fence or Thunder Strike, Acid Arrow. As I am dropping Oil Slick I pick a mob in the center, hopefully purple con and all pets attack. I am trying to get Assault Bot AOE to add to my Oil Slick. It usually works out that way. Many mobs melts then pick off stragglers. Oil Slick is usually close to recharged by next fight otherwise I add it after Acid Arrow. My basic goal is trying to get aggro best I can before bots attack. This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6 https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Natural Mastermind Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Battle Drones -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(5), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), BldMnd-Acc(46), BldMnd-Dmg(50) Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- GrvAnc-Hold%(A) Level 2: Flash Arrow -- SphIns-%ToHit(A), SphIns-ToHitDeb(7), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(7), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(3), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5) Level 4: Glue Arrow -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A) Level 6: Kick -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A) Level 8: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(9), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(9), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFrt-Def(11), RedFrt-EndRdx(13) Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(13), LucoftheG-Def(25) Level 12: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(15) Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17) Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow -- FrtHyp-Plct%(A) Level 18: Weave -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(19), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(19), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def(25), RedFrt-EndRdx(31) Level 20: Acid Arrow -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(31), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(45), ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShlBrk-%Dam(46) Level 22: Protector Bots -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(23), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34) Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 26: Assault Bot -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(29), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(33), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SlbAll-Build%(43) Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- EnrMnp-Stun%(A) Level 30: Photon Grenade -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(33), Artl-Dam/Rech(36), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(34), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(31), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(34) Level 32: Equip Robot -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(36), Artl-Dam/End(40), Artl-Dam/Rech(40), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(37), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(37) Level 38: Charged Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(39), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(39), UnbGrd-Max HP%(40), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(39) Level 41: Thunder Strike -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(42) Level 44: EMP Arrow -- Lck-%Hold(A) Level 47: Electrifying Fences -- TraoftheH-Acc/Rchg(A), TraoftheH-EndRdx/Immob(48), TraoftheH-Acc/EndRdx(48), TraoftheH-Immob/Acc(48), TraoftheH-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50), TraoftheH-Dam%(50) Level 49: Upgrade Robot -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(33), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(45) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(37) Level 12: Speed Phase Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 50: Agility Partial Core Revamp Level 26: Assault Bot Level 1: Battle Drone Level 22: Protector Bot ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1528;715;1430;HEX;| |78DA6594CB4F135114C6EFCCDCE9B4A5A52DD0F27E9697052A55F74679180D35441| |E1A5D900A052642DBF41175E9233E772EC4B7AE5CFA0718301A5FFF8371E74E055C| |685037E371BE43DBA44D26BFB9DFBDE7DCF39D3BB7F10BA39E17472E1D148A7F642| |591CBCDC513B97C32BB6AA6168CE3897C219B58D104FD0C7A9A4A73735385D5D574| |2A7A227D369D37E773CD6553870B8B8BD1E9AC397F6EEE50369B3E1F389A5A4E669| 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I've gone through different variants with the flying fortress build. The biggest issue I found was I ending up in a zone/mode in which I was just trying to heal the bots to keep them alive.. It really became unmanageable. I was like WTF am I doing ? Is this City of Heroes or City of Healers.. In some maps Group fly was useless as you can imagine. Cave missions were a determent. Pets literally got stick in ceiling areas. I was looking at the numbers for the pets but even with all the IO bonuses you were not capping out or even close to half. This is definitely a Force Field or AOE healing type of build. Not so much a trick arrow build, At least not for me. I even tried the city SL farm on robots. due to the wires and light poles I had to move the mobs in between the buildings.. That seemed to work a bit better. I think having to deal with the Z axis needs a bit of skill and training.

I am all for it.. Honestly ANY IMPROVEMENT beyond the current situation would be great. Stack the powers like Kick, Punch, Crosspunch. Again anything beyond what it is now.

I get what you are saying.. If I am correct.. Which I am pretty sure I am. You are saying since the pets are summon and forget, If it cost you 53 endurance to summon and buff and if you let them just fight a group of mobs if it took them 10 minutes to kill that group you would have only spent 53 endurance.. Whereas if you were a blaster for example you would spend 200 endurance and kill them in 1 minute.. I am pretty sure this is what you are saying.. That is understood. But this is a false base line.. Because I understand you want to do the wiki math and say it cost 53 Endurance to summon and upgrade the pets and the pet attacks at Min and Max do this.. But I would simply challenge you to a simple test.. Would be happy to meet on test.. SOs only to make it easier.. You summon the 6 Pets.. I will make another base Arch Type.. Tanker, Blaster, Scrapper, Defender.. We set the setting to 8/3 and you stand back and direct the pets to attack without assisting them. Any time a pet dies you must summon a new pet and upgrade them. I would say you can let the pets to continue to attack. IF you can't summon a pet or upgrade you must announce it so we can record the time.. As this will be a penalty towards the time. Your only requirement is you must have 6 pets out at all times.. Then we have the other arch type fight to clear out the group. I am sure your DPE will go up.. I am sure we will be waiting some time for the pets to kill off the group.. I am sure you will be re summoning A LOT.. I am sure you will run out of endurance or will have to wait to re summon and upgrade due to pet wipes.. Mind you, we cannot run away from combat.. It is what it is.. You can dodge around but you have to be within the ring per say. We can add a similar penalty for a player death. OR just a simple visual.. Test server.. SO build. Endurance and health slotted out same.. attacks are slotted out the same.. Mastermind and a Blaster.. We record the recharge on attacks.. We then fire away until the mastermind is out of endurance.. Then we do the same for the Blaster. I am thinking Dual Pistol and Thug as Dual Pistol was created from Thug Mastermind and they have same attacks. I am POSITIVE the Mastermind will run out of endurance faster.. We can add in the DPS from the pets against the single target.. We are not looking at AOE. But we can include a single hit from the AOE against the main target.. The fight stops when the toon runs out of endurance. My only concern is the pets delay in stopping attack would add some additional damage after the endurance drops.. Again Pet wipes matter.. I honestly wasted some time in game just summoning and upgrading pets to just get some numbers.. The FASTEST I can get is 14 seconds. That means summoning 6 pets and Upgrading takes me 14 seconds. It is about 7 to 8 seconds of Upgrade time. So summoning a single Tier and adding upgrades is at minimum of 7 to 8 seconds.. Again just some in game summoning plus stopwatch on Phone.. It takes about 10 seconds for a Single Tier and Upgrade.. Again I get what you are saying.. But this game is not static.. We are not fighting level 1 mobs.. Sure we can run a test where the rule is clear out the map and calculate endurance only and you then you can spend 5 hours just trying to kill the mobs without any pet deaths to only spend 53 endurance and get 3 bubs of experience where as I ran 10 missions and got 30 bubs of exp and spend 1000 endurance in the same time. Hang your hat on this DPE nonsense all you want. The discord and the chat copied to the these forums from discord say a bit different. Thus the endurance and recharge changes on masterminds. Again you need to include realistic game play with your process here..

If you look at mids you will see there is a difference.. EG Call hawk on Mastermind does 49 Damage and on Dom it does over 100 for the same endurance. I would imagine at the start of the game they probably had a set of formulas and numbers that went something like this.. 1 point of DPS equals X amount of endurance. Then they added variances for Range Melee and then other elements like AOE, CONE.. Debuffs.. Then at some point they had to add some variance based on Arch Type.. I recall the endurance penalty wasn't there at the start of masterminds, but somewhere near coming live they seen some sort of DPS creep. Basically the Pets Plus attacks was making them out DPS some Arch Types. As time when on I just think they played around with numbers and such until it seemed right and everyone was happy. At the end of the day any Arch Type and build can run out of endurance if not properly setup. But with Masterminds you just have to cognitive of your endurance. You can't fight at that pace you fight with other AT. There has to be a deliberate cadence in your attacks. When the pets die everything then falls off. You have 2 options.. Run away from the fight or try to summon in the midst of a fight depending on your build. If you summon during a fight you have a chance of loosing all your pets again as there is a window of about 14 seconds with summon and upgrading where pets are defenseless, but can take damage and die again. Which is common. Or you run off and resummon. Either scenario is a clearly a DPS hit for masterminds. Now I am not saying OMG my Blaster finishes this mission in 5 minutes and it takes my Mastermind 10 minutes.. That is horrible. But we have to measure something on the arch types.. Damage Per Second seems to be the common measure. DPS wise with the slower paced endurance cadence and pet wipes you are doing less DPS. Look when a single Tier 1 pet dies I keep moving on.. The 14 seconds of buffing is just not worth my time. The amount of damage they do is not game shattering. Especially against mobs 4 to 6 levels higher than them. This my Summoning ideology. 2 Tier 1s down = resummon 1 Tier 2 or Tier 3 down = resummon Otherwise I move on. The attacks should be doing MORE damage based on the endurance we pay.. Or give us options to pick up something to protect the pets instead of attacks. Leave the attacks for someone who wants them. I will tell you when the attack are fun.. When your level 50 petless/ semi petless mastermind with incarnates. Then it is cool because you are not starving for endurance as cardiac helps that out. Then yes with Procing your doing some cool damage.

This should be a sticky in a few places.. I just did it and it worked Thank you

That was GREAT !

See for me a shot in the back usually just kills the runners.. Plus they always come back.. Also it depends on play style.. For me If MY BUILD can't do 8/3 setting it is garbage. I don't care about anyone else's build.. I don't care if they are running SO's and have all the travel powers.. On average, on a full team 3 defense capped players is all you need to steam roll. Everyone else is extra DPS.. Then add in incarnates.. I go for AOE attacks and a few single target attacks to pick off runners.. PERSONALLY I like Disruption arrow over Entanglement Arrow for the AOE and stun IO..

Again. .No one said SKIPPING Anything.. Please re-read what I have posted and said repeatedly.. It would be very foolish of me to ask to remove a power option completely.. I clearly said choice several times..

I think this is more of thematic concept. Personally I think my toons are great with all their powers.. Thus the choice option request. So you are aware VEAT actually have this option already. They have 2 choices for each power level on both primary and secondary..

See I would be making hideless stalkers.. Don't want to derail, but Petless and semi petless is a good litmus test for new Mastermind arch types and play styles.. Imagine if Masterminds just had different mechanics based on the number of pets you had. Imagine that if you only took ONE Tier of Pet that it was as strong as all 3 pets. EG Imagine having 3 Tier one pets that were level 50 and just had a bit more attacks and YOU also had more attacks and other game mechanics.. Personally I see a lot of different play styles you can do if they changed how Masterminds worked. You would see players some new unique attack powers that replaced pets maybe.. You would see a bunch of players with less pets running around, but I think also many other players would be happy with that. Having 3 masterminds on your team now with less pets would make many people happy.. You take away a pet you get this other benefit.. Think how the VEATs work where they can have a mix of old and new sets.. But the great thing also... You keep the Original Mastermind as well. You want to be old school.. Great.. Nothing changes for you. Also remember Thugs Mastermind created Dual Pistol set.. Finally my Petless and Semi Petless ( usually last pet for thematic reasons ) are doing 8/3 setting. There are level 50 players running around with ALL the travel powers on SOs. Or Semi Frankenslotted but really have no clue about game mechanics or the purpose of Invention Sets, Procs and so on.

Funny you are asking me why I am asking you about being a cheesy player. But you are quoting another person in response to me. If you take the time to read what this other person sent me to read, that you are quoting and stating it will never happen. You will realize the Developers are actually stating it can happen and they suggested it. You will read that the Developers wanted to switch the T1 powers with the T2 powers. Meaning your first mandatory choice would be the T2 power instead in the T1 spot.. They were moving 2 powers around. They were NOT giving players the option of picking the T2 over the T1. Players complained to some degree that they wanted to tank and not have a DPS increase per say. Though if you read a few pages you will also see players thought it was cool idea after MISUNDERSTANDING what the Devs have said thinking it was an OPTION.. You will see one person posted about a Stalker not taking hide as their initial choice and gimping themselves out for a few levels before they could pick it up again. I might have picked Entanglement arrow as my target for this post, but my request which I attempted clarify a second time and I stated this in the post you are quoting me from and also and I am yet again restating it.. I am asking for the OPTION to pick the T2 over the T1 on your secondary power set. Similar to what you can do now with your primary set. Currently when creating the character you are locked in to picking the first power in the secondary set. I would like the option to have 2 powers to choose from at level one from the secondary set.. Either the T1 or T2 power.. EG When creating my Robot Trick Arrow Mastermind I have the choice of picking up Pulse Rifle Blast or Battle Drones from the Primary. On the secondary I would like the OPTION to EITHER pick up Entanglement Arrow OR Flash Arrow at level 1.. It is further obvious that this is linked to the Secondary Set as what is primary for some Arch Types is Secondary for other Arch Types.. As another example for this would be Corruptors and Defenders. If you look you will see Trick Arrow is Primary for Defenders with the option of Entanglement Arrow or Flash Arrow at level one.. Whereas for Corruptors Trick Arrow is a secondary and only has the ability to pick one power at level one. As far as me mentioning cheesy player. I felt I needed to cover as many bases with you. For the simple reason, you didn't respond to my suggestion but gave me your opinion on a power. Then after reclarifying my suggestion a second time you then still did not read comments and felt a thread lock was needed for some still unknown reason. So since you initially quoted someone else and decided on the lesson. I figured you would just quote someone else and use that as a reason. This is why I asked you for some facts or some sort of data to support any further possible statements. This is also why I delved into the power pools statement to try to see what angle you would retort back with.. I was covering the bases best I could so we didn't keep jumping from one reason to another..

Oddly enough the Developers didn't see it too much work to switch T1 and T2 for Tankers. So why would the OPTION of allowing to take a T2 on a secondary set be so difficult. Again this is already an OPTION for Primary powers. I replied to some of the comments and even tried to explain my point as it seems some posters misunderstood the request. At the end of the day its the suggestion forum and they don't go running around locking threads because you don't like the suggestion or what is being said. I mean this is what you said It has NOTHING to do with the suggestion I posted. You are pretty much telling me why I MUST have that power.. You pretty much ignored what I said and just made it about your own point. I understand you feel the need to give me a lesson on importance of entanglement arrow but you should at least address the suggestion. Maybe explain or expand on why having the option to pick a T2 instead of T1 is a bad thing ? What sort of cataclysmic effect it would have ? Is there some power creep you are aware of ? We only can pick 5 power pools and some are locked out when others are picked. So not picking a T1 power will enable a player to pick something in a power pool at most. Again I roll back to my statement above. Why does having the Option in a primary not break the game or not create the label of maxing but having that option in the secondary suddenly make you a bad person or a cheesy player.