Granite in 2019 and Beyond....

[Galaxy Brain]

What could be cool is like, Granite still sorta invalidates the other toggles at face value. But, while in granite you can activate each of the other toggles one at a time (like Bio's stances) and have different Granite-Flavors with bonus effects?

[Lost Ninja]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

What could be cool is like, Granite still sorta invalidates the other toggles at face value. But, while in granite you can activate each of the other toggles one at a time (like Bio's stances) and have different Granite-Flavors with bonus effects?

I like that idea.

[Megajoule]

I love my Stone/Stone for his concept, but the power set Granite* has three strikes against it:

(1) Slowwwwwwwwwww, tele-tanking only, etc etc.

(2) It renders the previous 8 7 powers irrelevant - you can still run Rooted, but that's it.

(3) It replaces your character with an utterly generic model.

 

* I typed what I typed, and then I realized that it was really all about Granite, which is the problem.

(Stone Armor: It's All About Granite.)

[Zepp]

13 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

I love my Stone/Stone for his concept, but the power set Granite* has three strikes against it:

(1) Slowwwwwwwwwww, tele-tanking only, etc etc.

(2) It renders the previous 8 7 powers irrelevant - you can still run Rooted, but that's it.

(3) It replaces your character with an utterly generic model.

 

* I typed what I typed, and then I realized that it was really all about Granite, which is the problem.

(Stone Armor: It's All About Granite.)

I think you may be taking the rest of the powers for Granite...

 

Also Earth's Embrace and Mud Pots are still worth taking... (that being said, Earth's Embrace isn't quite as useful because you have so much protection, and it is no longer perm-able...

Edited October 3, 2019 by Zepp

[Zepp]

Why don't people who take Stone Armor do the same as people who take any other non-Regen set, skip the T₉?

[Note: This is supposed to be a dash sarcastic]

[Megajoule]

12 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I think you may be taking the rest of the powers for Granite...

 

Also Earth's Embrace and Mud Pots are still worth taking... (that being said, Earth's Embrace isn't quite as useful because you have so much protection, and it is no longer perm-able...

I probably miscounted slightly, but the practical upshot is that Granite's exclusivity means you can run the rest of the set, or Granite.  The other powers are absolutely worth taking, IMO, but once you hit level 32 (or 38), you're faced with an almost purely binary choice.

 

Many of the other armor sets used to be non-stacking as well, but this was fixed long ago.  Only Stone remains.  (Fitting, I suppose, but...)

Edited October 3, 2019 by Megajoule

[Zepp]

18 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

I probably miscounted slightly, but the practical upshot is that Granite's exclusivity means you can run the rest of the set, or Granite.  The other powers are absolutely worth taking, IMO, but once you hit level 32 (or 38), you're faced with an almost purely binary choice.

 

Many of the other armor sets used to be non-stacking as well, but this was fixed long ago.  Only Stone remains.  (Fitting, I suppose, but...)

So you are saying the set is stuck in the Stone Age?

[SeraphimKensai]

I like Galaxy Brain's idea about having the armor toggles that are exclusive with granite offer some modified benefits to running with Granite. Perhaps they could be used to mitigate some of the negatives associated with Granite.

 

Example ideas of the armors when used with Granite (note: in Granite the normal armor effect of the armor toggles is nullified,and outside of Granite, the Granite effects are nullified):

 

Brimstone - The heat of the armor boosts your recharge by 5% per enemy within mudpots'range. This allows you to negate your -65% recharge debuff when surrounded by 13 mobs, and at agro cap boosts it by 20%.

 

Crystal - Jagged crystals boost your damage by 3% per enemy within mudpots' range. This allows you to negate  the -30% damage debuff at 10 mobs around you, and if you are at agro cap of 17, boosts damage by 21%.

 

Minerals - Minerals fortify your strength to allow you to jump, or fly. It can be enhanced to reduce the 90% movement speed reduction on you as well.

 

Caveat: only one armor toggle in addition to Granite can be used at once?

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 3, 2019 by SeraphimKensai

[Drazah Krad]

just remember that one of the highest grossing movies of all time (Avatar) had floating mountains and was "based in science" and no one batted an eye at it.

 

we are talking about super heroes here aren't we?

 

if my controller can have softcap defense and 75% resists, yet a tanker is punished for using his powers for an additional 15% resists.... Seems pretty silly to me.

 

@seraphimkensai, I like that option best honestly.

[Myrmidon]

On 10/1/2019 at 4:13 PM, Haijinx said:

The no jump thing is detrimental to play it should be removed.  

 

No jump powers at the same time as granite is okay though.  No fly, no superspeed. 

 

The rech, spd AND dmg penalties are too harsh.  Pick one to keep, the rest should go. 

 

 

Just the jump change alone would go a long way to making me no longer feel the need to cut off both of my hands rather than play that set.

[Haijinx]

9 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Just the jump change alone would go a long way to making me no longer feel the need to cut off both of my hands rather than play that set.

Pretty much. 

 

I don't get the minus damage on Granite either thematically.  

 

Transform into a Giant Walking Rock Monster!   Now you must punch softer! 

 

Slower? Sure.  I mean you are a giant rock monster now.  That cuts down on some of your moves.  Plus everyone is gonna swipe left. 

 

But you have giant rock fists now.  You should be able to take out your frustrations at being a loser more forcefully!

[Zepp]

45 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Pretty much. 

 

I don't get the minus damage on Granite either thematically.  

 

Transform into a Giant Walking Rock Monster!   Now you must punch softer! 

 

Slower? Sure.  I mean you are a giant rock monster now.  That cuts down on some of your moves.  Plus everyone is gonna swipe left. 

 

But you have giant rock fists now.  You should be able to take out your frustrations at being a loser more forcefully!

F=ma... Increasing mass does increase force, but the acceleration decrease is more significant, thus resulting in less force.

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, Zepp said:

F=ma... Increasing mass does increase force, but the acceleration decrease is more significant, thus resulting in less force.

You must have missed the part about Giant Rock Monster!

 

 

[Haijinx]

Plus the punches move at the same speed as the normal sized people punches.

[Zepp]

4 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

You must have missed the part about Giant Rock Monster!

Read the first part of the quote.

GRM ↑ m

but
GRM ↓ a

and

Δ a > Δ m
∴ GRM ↓ f

[Haijinx]

3 minutes ago, Zepp said:

Read the first part of the quote.

GRM ↑ m

but
GRM ↓ a

and

Δ a > Δ m
∴ GRM ↓ f

Giant Rock Monster Smash.  

 

====

 

Plus their attacks move at the same speed.  The animation times are exactly the same.  

[Zepp]

5 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Giant Rock Monster Smash.  

 

====

 

Plus their attacks move at the same speed.  The animation times are exactly the same.  

I understand that, but the concept is that they are much slower, thus -Spd, -Rchg... the animation times are a matter of practicality, not in-game "reality"

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Zepp said:

I understand that, but the concept is that they are much slower, thus -Spd, -Rchg... the animation times are a matter of practicality, not in-game "reality"

If your take is correct they should also add +def to the enemy since they punch so slow, the attacks should be easier to dodge.

[Zepp]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

If your take is correct they should also add +def to the enemy since they punch so slow, the attacks should be easier to dodge.

Based on the theory behind the adjustments, that is correct.

[Rylas]

I would agree that Stone Armor's strengths have faded due to stagnation when compared to how everything else has been able to change or improve over the years. Its penalties definitely seem a bit excessive now. A Stone Armor player can't use IOs to offset the -dmg and -speed as effectively as other sets can offset their holes. 

 

I like where @Leogunner head is at in regards to making Granite something that you use more situationally. I'm not sure if his suggestion is the way to do it (not until I saw some numbers), but it's a good start for discussion. Something that it doesn't address is how you have to retoggle most of your armors when you come out of Granite. If we're making Granite something you use more intermittently, then that'll have to change.

 

I think one option is to make it so that your other armors (except Minerals) don't detoggle while Granite is up. Granite's numbers would need to be tweaked so that the other armors+Granite end up giving the same totals as original Granite. This would certainly stay within the cottage rule more so than doing a complete overhaul to SA. And you still have to choose between Granite and having Psi protection.