Going forward, can we have more things that mean something?

[MetaVileTerror]

Response to something a little further up the thread:
I've seen no evidence of anyone having said that a sense of accomplishment is mental disorder here.  The studies in to mental health and conditioning which tackle the subject of a sense of accomplishment (which have been used extensively by video game publishers, might I add) are what are being addressed.

A sense of accomplishment is a natural byproduct of the human condition.  It's a survival mechanism which helps internally reward behaviour which, historically, allowed for our species to survive.

A co-opted sense of accomplishment, however, is dangerous and very easy to turn destructive.  This is part of where addiction comes from.  And the video game industry, the gambling industry, and socio-political agendas for years and years have exploited that sense of accomplishment to the detriment of regular people.
They've done such a good job of it that people misattribute success all the time.  It's nothing new, but in video games, it is especially effective.  Video games have a lot of great benefits to offer, and they can provide constructive outlets or augment confidence in positive ways.  But publishers have long since figured out how to utilize the research that has been done in to this subject to prime audiences in to feeding in to a false sense of accomplishment with the express purpose of financial exploitation.

[Yomo Kimyata]

7 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

But how will the OP know and be able to prove, to themselves and others, that they're more accomplished than all the other lazy people playing a video game unless they have a way of showing it?

The need is twofold - to have some way of achieving a "high score", and being able to brag about it.

I wouldn't use the word lazy, but otherwise you are spot on.  I'm assuming from your italics you are being sarcastic, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

If someone wants validation because she is better at something than someone else, and that doesn't hurt anyone else, why not give that validation?  
How does that hurt that person, or society?  I'm all for giving someone a pat on the back and a hug for existing, but I'm going to go out of my way to shake the hand of the first woman who walks on Mars.  I'd even give her a badge so everyone who gave a rat's ass knew!

[Hero_of_Light]

10 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

But how will the OP know and be able to prove, to themselves and others, that they're more accomplished than all the other lazy people playing a video game unless they have a way of showing it?

The need is twofold - to have some way of achieving a "high score", and being able to brag about it.

Over covered this before,  I enjoy rping within the boundarys set by the game.

 

At the moment theres no way for my characters to earn new costumes. 

 

It's like im forced to be Bruce Wayne, except he had to at least wait for new things to be made

[MetaVileTerror]

Conflating the actual achievement of someone making it to Mars with digital costumes is pretty insulting, even if you did not mean for it to be.
 
Here.  Have some not-so-light reading: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6209642/
This article wears its agenda pretty clearly on its sleeve, and it doesn't address a lot of the significant nuance which exists in social dynamics . . . but it is EXACTLY the sort of documents I was paid to review, compress, and pitch to marketing teams while I worked in the industry.  THIS is the sort of research that has been used to "turn players in to payers."
 
And I stress:  This article is actually arguing for "your side" in this debate.  But it's incomplete, and totally misses some pretty blatant points regarding socially acceptable behaviour in regard to hubris and false elevation of status.

[Yomo Kimyata]

5 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Conflating the actual achievement of someone making it to Mars with digital costumes is pretty insulting, even if you did not mean for it to be.

Completely out of curiosity, how did I insult you?  That was not my intention. 

 

I do not disagree that video game producers, or cigarette makers, or politicians, or your friends and family, or almost everyone has a motive.  Lots of time it's profit.  I get it, profit is bad. 

 

But in this specific case, we are asking the devs of Homecoming to add rewards tied to accomplishments.  No one is exploiting me, taking my money and time away from my family and society.  I honestly want a pat on the head, or a badge, or god forbid a special belt costume piece that says, "hey!  You went above and beyond!  Well done!  Here's a present." 

 

I probably won't read the article, because I believe both that it is easy to exploit people, and that it is morally wrong to do that for personal profit.  So I would probably agree with the findings, and at the same time agree with you that it's not cool.

[MetaVileTerror]

Reaching Mars represents the culmination of dozens of years and hundreds of thousands of people's dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.  It's an actual milestone for the entire human race.  

It's an actual accomplishment.

Getting an exclusionary and imaginary "belt" in a video game is not.

Suggesting that the two have some kind of equivalence for comparison is to subject the aforementioned accomplishment to the banality and insignificance of something which will not better anyone's life in a meaningful way.  

 

I play this game as a hobby, but I am deeply passionate about it.  It's why I, personally, have been this engaged in this discussion.  But my patience is not infinite, and this forum thread is chewing in to time I would much rather spend doing something to kick off a few endorphin rushes.  However, I feel it's important to share the information I have.  I may be overestimating my own self-worth, and I acknowledge that without reservation.  Regardless of that; I still think the information is worthwhile, and so I am spending my time here trying to be informative.

 

So, here's another little tidbit from my time in the industry:  It doesn't matter if someone is a whale (codeword for a big spender).  As long as someone contributes to a social dynamic of "the haves versus the have-nots," then they are feeding in to the system created to drive those whales in to destructive behaviour.  It's all a big, fleshy, messy machine of social interactions.  Where one person holds up a pretend sword and says "I am special," and is given tacit permission from an authority to do so, it invariably leads to the destruction of another's sense of self-worth.  And it's that destruction which the monsters feed upon.

And then, when confronted with this, the same old rhetoric is spouted:  That victim should grow thicker skin.
A reductionist excuse manufactured as part of an intentionally crafted narrative, with the express purpose of shifting culpability from those who manufactured the system by thrusting the blame on to the victim.

 

Again . . . this isn't new.  This shit has been used for years, and years, and years . . . for fuck's sake, it's even featured in Greek Mythology!  Say hello to the likes of Io, Medusa, and Echo.

 

I'm tired.  So very tired.  I feel like I've been subject to a massive trolling here . . . but I just can't let it go.  I probably feel too much guilt and shame for what I used to do in the industry.  And seeing all the telltale signs of the behaviour I was paid to exploit . . . well, shit.  This thread just pushes all my buttons.

I think I should step away.  For my own sanity, though.  I've not committed to doing a professional job of explaining myself here, since I couldn't justify it to myself since I wasn't getting paid to type all this stuff out . . . but when it's your passion, you go to obscene lengths sometimes.  Gotta know when to step away, and I think I've passed that point.

Good luck, folks!

[Lost Ninja]

2 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Reaching Mars represents the culmination of dozens of years and hundreds of thousands of people's dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.  It's an actual milestone for the entire human race.  

It's an actual accomplishment.

Getting an exclusionary and imaginary "belt" in a video game is not.

Suggesting that the two have some kind of equivalence for comparison is to subject the aforementioned accomplishment to the banality and insignificance of something which will not better anyone's life in a meaningful way.  

 

I play this game as a hobby, but I am deeply passionate about it.  It's why I, personally, have been this engaged in this discussion.  But my patience is not infinite, and this forum thread is chewing in to time I would much rather spend doing something to kick off a few endorphin rushes.  However, I feel it's important to share the information I have.  I may be overestimating my own self-worth, and I acknowledge that without reservation.  Regardless of that; I still think the information is worthwhile, and so I am spending my time here trying to be informative.

 

So, here's another little tidbit from my time in the industry:  It doesn't matter if someone is a whale (codeword for a big spender).  As long as someone contributes to a social dynamic of "the haves versus the have-nots," then they are feeding in to the system created to drive those whales in to destructive behaviour.  It's all a big, fleshy, messy machine of social interactions.  Where one person holds up a pretend sword and says "I am special," and is given tacit permission from an authority to do so, it invariably leads to the destruction of another's sense of self-worth.  And it's that destruction which the monsters feed upon.

And then, when confronted with this, the same old rhetoric is spouted:  That victim should grow thicker skin.
A reductionist excuse manufactured as part of an intentionally crafted narrative, with the express purpose of shifting culpability from those who manufactured the system by thrusting the blame on to the victim.

 

Again . . . this isn't new.  This shit has been used for years, and years, and years . . . for fuck's sake, it's even featured in Greek Mythology!  Say hello to the likes of Io, Medusa, and Echo.

 

I'm tired.  So very tired.  I feel like I've been subject to a massive trolling here . . . but I just can't let it go.  I probably feel too much guilt and shame for what I used to do in the industry.  And seeing all the telltale signs of the behaviour I was paid to exploit . . . well, shit.  This thread just pushes all my buttons.

I think I should step away.  For my own sanity, though.  I've not committed to doing a professional job of explaining myself here, since I couldn't justify it to myself since I wasn't getting paid to type all this stuff out . . . but when it's your passion, you go to obscene lengths sometimes.  Gotta know when to step away, and I think I've passed that point.

Good luck, folks!

I for one appreciate your responses, they're interesting and informative. Thank you.

[arkieboy72472]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:43 AM, Hero_of_Light said:

I feel like theres a push towards not earning things. There's no costumes to earn, no prestige powers to earn, no archetypes to earn... thankfully accolades aren't autounlocked for everyone on character creation with instant 50s everywhere.

 

I'm not saying remove anything that's already done, but as examples: seeing Nemises staffs used to mean something, seeing brutes on hero side or defenders on villain side used to mean something, seeing vanguard armor used to mean something. Heck, seeing capes kind of ment something lol

 

Not everything needs to be behind a 'grind wall' as some might say,  but If everything is free or easy, then nothing is special.

 

Going forward, could some of the new stuff be unlocked only after proving your loyalty to a faction, or if you've got this particular badge, or have at least one 50 on your account, or finished a certain story arc, ect?

 

Tldr- 

 

If theres a rikti soldier costume peice for free, that's cool and people can have that.

 

But If I want some costume peices that allow me to look a rikti commander, but require that I finish an undercover rikti story arc to unlock ,I should be able to have that too!

 

It's perfectly in reach for almost every player in the game and people telling me im wrong to want that as an option to enjoy are cruel and short sighted bullies.

I feel for you dude. I suggested something along these lines and people lost their shit on me. Good luck.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Reaching Mars represents the culmination of dozens of years and hundreds of thousands of people's dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.  It's an actual milestone for the entire human race.  

It's an actual accomplishment.

Getting an exclusionary and imaginary "belt" in a video game is not.

Suggesting that the two have some kind of equivalence for comparison is to subject the aforementioned accomplishment to the banality and insignificance of something which will not better anyone's life in a meaningful way.  

 

I play this game as a hobby, but I am deeply passionate about it.  It's why I, personally, have been this engaged in this discussion.  But my patience is not infinite, and this forum thread is chewing in to time I would much rather spend doing something to kick off a few endorphin rushes.  However, I feel it's important to share the information I have.  I may be overestimating my own self-worth, and I acknowledge that without reservation.  Regardless of that; I still think the information is worthwhile, and so I am spending my time here trying to be informative.

 

So, here's another little tidbit from my time in the industry:  It doesn't matter if someone is a whale (codeword for a big spender).  As long as someone contributes to a social dynamic of "the haves versus the have-nots," then they are feeding in to the system created to drive those whales in to destructive behaviour.  It's all a big, fleshy, messy machine of social interactions.  Where one person holds up a pretend sword and says "I am special," and is given tacit permission from an authority to do so, it invariably leads to the destruction of another's sense of self-worth.  And it's that destruction which the monsters feed upon.

And then, when confronted with this, the same old rhetoric is spouted:  That victim should grow thicker skin.
A reductionist excuse manufactured as part of an intentionally crafted narrative, with the express purpose of shifting culpability from those who manufactured the system by thrusting the blame on to the victim.

 

Again . . . this isn't new.  This shit has been used for years, and years, and years . . . for fuck's sake, it's even featured in Greek Mythology!  Say hello to the likes of Io, Medusa, and Echo.

 

I'm tired.  So very tired.  I feel like I've been subject to a massive trolling here . . . but I just can't let it go.  I probably feel too much guilt and shame for what I used to do in the industry.  And seeing all the telltale signs of the behaviour I was paid to exploit . . . well, shit.  This thread just pushes all my buttons.

I think I should step away.  For my own sanity, though.  I've not committed to doing a professional job of explaining myself here, since I couldn't justify it to myself since I wasn't getting paid to type all this stuff out . . . but when it's your passion, you go to obscene lengths sometimes.  Gotta know when to step away, and I think I've passed that point.

Good luck, folks!

I wish I could like this more than once.  I'd up vote it a thousand times if I could, especially the first paragraph.

[Omega-202]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

But in this specific case, we are asking the devs of Homecoming to add rewards tied to accomplishments.  No one is exploiting me, taking my money and time away from my family and society.  I honestly want a pat on the head, or a badge, or god forbid a special belt costume piece that says, "hey!  You went above and beyond!  Well done!  Here's a present." 

But the point (and the point of a lot of research into the field that the cited article is discussing) is that getting a "pat on the head" for doing nothing of any value is actually mentally unhealthy.  The fact that you are motivated by a digital shiny and that it triggers a sense of social superiority, pride or accomplishment is not something to be encouraged and is detrimental to mental well being.

 

You shouldn't reply to someone and say "I'm going to continue to stick to my view points and not read the article you cited."  That's just really poor form. 

[Hero_of_Light]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

Or, and just hear me out here... let everyone use whatever costume pieces they want, and you can have your vaunted "Vanguard Prime" badge to display above your name, instead of taking options away from someone else.

Or,  hear me out, they can have 90% free and only have %10 that requires somet effort. Compromise is an important part of society. 

 

Although it doesn't matter. A lot of people in game like thr idea if costume unlockables, but it'll up to the dev's, and hopfully, eventually volunteers.

 

[Hero_of_Light]

If I do something in real life and I awarded for it with something i like,  it's great. ( I would love to be paid in swords sometime)

 

Why is it unhealthy to expect the same thing in games?

 

 

[Hero_of_Light]

3 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Reaching Mars represents the culmination of dozens of years and hundreds of thousands of people's dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.  It's an actual milestone for the entire human race.  

It's an actual accomplishment.

Getting an exclusionary and imaginary "belt" in a video game is not.

Suggesting that the two have some kind of equivalence for comparison is to subject the aforementioned accomplishment to the banality and insignificance of something which will not better anyone's life in a meaningful way.  

 

I play this game as a hobby, but I am deeply passionate about it.  It's why I, personally, have been this engaged in this discussion.  But my patience is not infinite, and this forum thread is chewing in to time I would much rather spend doing something to kick off a few endorphin rushes.  However, I feel it's important to share the information I have.  I may be overestimating my own self-worth, and I acknowledge that without reservation.  Regardless of that; I still think the information is worthwhile, and so I am spending my time here trying to be informative.

 

So, here's another little tidbit from my time in the industry:  It doesn't matter if someone is a whale (codeword for a big spender).  As long as someone contributes to a social dynamic of "the haves versus the have-nots," then they are feeding in to the system created to drive those whales in to destructive behaviour.  It's all a big, fleshy, messy machine of social interactions.  Where one person holds up a pretend sword and says "I am special," and is given tacit permission from an authority to do so, it invariably leads to the destruction of another's sense of self-worth.  And it's that destruction which the monsters feed upon.

And then, when confronted with this, the same old rhetoric is spouted:  That victim should grow thicker skin.
A reductionist excuse manufactured as part of an intentionally crafted narrative, with the express purpose of shifting culpability from those who manufactured the system by thrusting the blame on to the victim.

 

Again . . . this isn't new.  This shit has been used for years, and years, and years . . . for fuck's sake, it's even featured in Greek Mythology!  Say hello to the likes of Io, Medusa, and Echo.

 

I'm tired.  So very tired.  I feel like I've been subject to a massive trolling here . . . but I just can't let it go.  I probably feel too much guilt and shame for what I used to do in the industry.  And seeing all the telltale signs of the behaviour I was paid to exploit . . . well, shit.  This thread just pushes all my buttons.

I think I should step away.  For my own sanity, though.  I've not committed to doing a professional job of explaining myself here, since I couldn't justify it to myself since I wasn't getting paid to type all this stuff out . . . but when it's your passion, you go to obscene lengths sometimes.  Gotta know when to step away, and I think I've passed that point.

Good luck, folks!

If I see someone with something I like I don't go "aw... I wish in had that but I don't...' 

 

I go 'hey that's cool, I'm going to get that too!'

 

And if I find out its beyond me to get it i go ' shucks that would be cool, let's find something else cool!' And I move on.

 

If someone is mentally harmed because someone has something they don't and instead of that driving them to get it they immediately feel damaged... then theres something else that needs to be discussed, and it's not video games

[Hero_of_Light]

 

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I wish I could like this more than once.  I'd up vote it a thousand times if I could, especially the first paragraph.

If you've watched star trek, you'll know that money and physical things, for the most part, become so easy to obtain that instead of those things having a ton of value, how good at something some is, and the reputation they build has much more value.

 

Would you find it acceptable if someone who doesn't as good of a reputation as someone else to wallow if self doubt and misery, or expect them to go build that reputation if they wished they had it that bad?

[Hero_of_Light]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

But the point (and the point of a lot of research into the field that the cited article is discussing) is that getting a "pat on the head" for doing nothing of any value is actually mentally unhealthy.  The fact that you are motivated by a digital shiny and that it triggers a sense of social superiority, pride or accomplishment is not something to be encouraged and is detrimental to mental well being.

 

You shouldn't reply to someone and say "I'm going to continue to stick to my view points and not read the article you cited."  That's just really poor form. 

Value is often determined by the beholder isnt it?

 

And pride and accomplishment are not synonymous with social superiority.  A balanced pride in your accomplishments should definitely be promoted and it's extremely good for your self image. Plus it helps you because a more productive member of society. 

 

I don't care if they whole server earned the same costume set I earned, in fact I would hope they could and did. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Hero_of_Light

[Hero_of_Light]

3 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Reaching Mars represents the culmination of dozens of years and hundreds of thousands of people's dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.  It's an actual milestone for the entire human race.  

It's an actual accomplishment.

Getting an exclusionary and imaginary "belt" in a video game is not.

Suggesting that the two have some kind of equivalence for comparison is to subject the aforementioned accomplishment to the banality and insignificance of something which will not better anyone's life in a meaningful way.  

God , I would hope the unlockables wouldn't require that much work. 

 

I never though a costume set was worth 

the culmination of dozens of years and hundreds of thousands of people's dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.  Just a 30 minutes story arc.

 

Things don't need to be historically and culturally epic to still be an acomplishment dude.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Hero_of_Light

[Hero_of_Light]

6 hours ago, arkieboy72472 said:

I feel for you dude. I suggested something along these lines and people lost their shit on me. Good luck.

Don't worry my friend.  Were definitely not alone; mention it to people in game about it. Especially if your doing old school missions as a team and not just AE farming.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Hero_of_Light

[Indystruck]

3 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

But the point (and the point of a lot of research into the field that the cited article is discussing) is that getting a "pat on the head" for doing nothing of any value is actually mentally unhealthy.  The fact that you are motivated by a digital shiny and that it triggers a sense of social superiority, pride or accomplishment is not something to be encouraged and is detrimental to mental well being.

 

You shouldn't reply to someone and say "I'm going to continue to stick to my view points and not read the article you cited."  That's just really poor form. 

 

There was no specific article cited in BB's argument, just "go look it up", so saying "go read the nebulously referred to article because if you don't you're being rude" is pretty rude in of itself.  MVT's article is a much much much broader net. Not light reading, but it is from 1979 and reuploaded 2008, so studying the effects of prolonged Asteroids play wasn't probably the top of the list, but I can see how it'd be applicable in parts as I work through it. 

 

But, since no one linked anything dealing with Bentley's specific "wanting accomplishments from video games will cause ill mental effects", I just went ahead and fired up Google, and what I found was talking about the subject... in terms of people who are already addicted to videogames and playing in excess. Well, yes. Most things in excess will render the user ill in some form. I've got work, I've got school, I don't really have time to do video gaming to excess, but that doesn't mean I want everything in the game handed to me on a platter. And then some other articles I found talked about this feeling of accomplishment... and how it can be an important coping method for people with depression! As it creates that first "step" when someone is thinking "God, please, I just need one thing to go right today." So, not entirely unsurprisingly, there's studies arguing for either side of the fence here.

 

Saying the HC devs are going to maliciously apply some AAA dev style practices based off of the request made in the OP is a little odd to me, there's no white whales for the devs to spear to get money pouring out of them here.  While MVT's rant about malicious gacha/lootboxes practices is very real, I just don't see how it applies here. You can't empty your wallet here to get an anime jpeg. Hell, any badge you can theoretically get carried to by a team, you just have to ask, and for the most part, this community is nice enough to help you with it, so the gating aspect is hardly there anyway. I used to help people with Masters of Statesman TF runs all the time, it was fun, even if there's no visual benefit for me beyond doing it one time, managing it so others could have it was great. Most unlocks you could get carried to by a team as well, even now, it's why you have teams always forming to help people farm accolades faster.

 

If we're going into extremes here about what does it matter by saying people must be having mental disorders to be thinking the way they are in this topic, in the end, all of our personal accomplishments on the Earth will be vaporized when the Sun goes nova, so, really, why should we care about anything?

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Indystruck

[Jaack]

Haven't read the whole thread, but enough to get the gist.

 

There already exists a reward system in the game. It's called badges. There are plenty of things in the game you can do to earn then. If you want some sort of recognition for your accomplishment, there should be no difference between a badge and a costume unlock.

 

In fact a badge is probably better than a costume unlock. The entire value of the badge is that I earned it. I can show it off without having to alter my character's look. A costume piece I earn could very easily end up not getting used.

 

If my reward for doing a Really Hard Way was a monkey ear costume piece, I'd never have the desire to show it off because I don't have a monkey character concept. A badge is easier to show off.

 

At the same time someone with a monkey themed charter concept is forced to complete a difficult task, that they may have no interest in otherwise.

 

Your proposed 'compromise' isn't one at all. Players who are interested in accomplishing things are rewarded with badges. Players who are interested in creative activities or unique character concepts have access to all the tools they need from the outset.

[Hero_of_Light]

30 minutes ago, Jaack said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but enough to get the gist.

 

There already exists a reward system in the game. It's called badges. There are plenty of things in the game you can do to earn then. If you want some sort of recognition for your accomplishment, there should be no difference between a badge and a costume unlock.

 

Then why does it matter if a small few out of the many costume peices are unlockables? 

 

I wonder why hero's in many story's has an article of clothing or s weapon that sets them apart from others...hmm

 

Maybe costume peices are more important after all.

[Hero_of_Light]

34 minutes ago, Jaack said:

 

If my reward for doing a Really Hard Way was a monkey ear costume piece, I'd never have the desire to show it off because I don't have a monkey character concept. A badge is easier to show off.

 

That's why badges would still be a thing, and you wouldn't need to use it, just like I wouldnt use that particular peice.

 

But Just like I'd rather earn a vanguard prime set since I'd use it, someone else would rather earn a monkey ear because theyll use it. So you have other unlockable options continually added it, along with free ones

[Outrider_01]

12 page thread am not gonna bother reading beyond the first gripe

 

-CoH/V is officially dead

-Game is run by an outside party for free

-Said party doesn't make the profit of NSOFT/Cryptic 

-Nostagic factor, not required to play

-You don't have to play the game

-If you choose to play, not forced to take free stuff

-You don't need to need to get a power level

-You can play an underachiever power set the hard way, thats a self satisfying reward.

 

My point of view might be different, you don't need a reward to show you did it.  I see the text "maybe a costume piece" followed by

 

"It's perfectly in reach for almost every player in the game and people telling me im wrong to want that as an option to enjoy are cruel and short sighted bullies."

 

Makes the OP sound full of themselve if they can't take someone else's opinion or criticism.  Its like in other games where assholes flash their worthless K/D ratio or Winrate.  Special awards for grinding a game meant for entertainment?  FFS the game was made for fun, not a fucking mental drug addiction to being the best and showing it off...nobody likes associating with tweakers and meth heads. 

 

In the case of the OP, try asking for a greater challenge over a fake imaginary pixel item.  Enjoy the ride for the challenge and take pride in it, not the prize at the end of the trip.  It then starts to feel like a job when you grind, which you are not payed for.  If a special item is offered, its fine but don't sound entitled or demanding. Perhaps suggesting how to go about it instead of vaguely asking/demanding; use your imagination and come up with a TF or like that annoying ski badge not just asking for that special feeling of accomplishment for a pixel prize.

[Megajoule]

Okay, no sarcasm in this post.  Instead, Story Time!

I usually score pretty low in the Achievement category on the Bartle test; for me, it's more a matter of making the character "complete" (as I envision them) than chasing stuff for its own sake. But sometimes, I have - usually with a bit of crossover with Explorer.

Back when CoH was live, and before the Reveal power was commonly available, I made a point of flying lawn-mower patterns with my main on every single city map to clear all the black "fog of war" from it.  Every city zone.  This is trivial now, literally a matter of one button press, but back then it took me a few hours.

Shortly before that, in Puzzle Pirates (the browser-type game that was my gateway to "true" MMOs), I took the time to go to every single island in the game (at that time) and take a screenshot of the map screen of the whole island.

 

Now, here's the thing.  There was no badge, Xbox achievement, etc for doing those things.  I didn't get any virtual money, or any special costume or clothing items, or any boost to my stats.  The only reward was my personal satisfaction for completing the set and reaching my goal.  I'm pretty sure I haven't told anyone about doing either thing until right here and now.  I didn't feel the need to.

However, this sort of thing is apparently not sufficient to give the OP what they're looking for.  This suggests, to me, a couple of possibilities. 

One is that they're not good at setting their own goals, or would prefer to work toward one(s) set by others.

Another, related to the second part of the first, is that they don't find the achievement as satisfying if they're the only one who knows about it; they want or need others to see that they have.  This tends to be a lot easier if the challenge is set by someone else, with objective parameters for completion.  The criteria are clear and verifiable; you've done it or you haven't, you have the badge or you don't.

The third possibility - and the one that I, personally, find the most disquieting - is that the OP may only feel full satisfaction if their achievement gives them access to something that others don't have.  Whether that thing was previously available and had access restricted, or if it's a new thing that was never available outside of the challenge, is for this purpose irrelevant; what matters, what's truly important, is that they have a literal status symbol that others don't.  This, IMO, is where things get dangerous.  This is where the motivation shifts from "I worked for this shiny and now I have it" to "I have a shiny and you don't, that makes me better than you (to some degree)."

 

Ask yourself this, OP - would you be happy if I gave you a task, you completed it, and no one ever knew about it but you (and maybe me)?  Or is it not "real", not enjoyable, not satisfying unless you get a trophy to show off to everyone?  Is it about having done the thing, or getting to brag about it?

One is pride.  The other is vanity.

I really hope it's the first.  Because at some point, everyone discovers that other people don't care about what they have done as much as they do.  Not even close.  They're all wrapped up in their own lives, their own desires, their own accomplishments (or angsting over lack thereof).

So I need to find a way to feel good about myself, that doesn't depend on what anyone else thinks; because if I don't, other people will never give me enough attention and validation and approval to fill that hole.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Megajoule

[Hero_of_Light]

19 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

Ask yourself this, OP - would you be happy if I gave you a task, you completed it, and no one ever knew about it but you (and maybe me)? 

Can I still have a sword/costume peice after? Even if no one else can see it, I can still see it and It'll signify that I over came your task, especially if it's cool looking. But other people can only get it from you and no one else can see it when they've gotten it. Unless they find a way to unlock the hidden aspect in the future, then so can I unless I'm not able to achieve it, then I can't. 

 

Even in single player games I'll hunt down all the cool items and maybe not even use them and just have them displayed in a weapons case or on a mannequin. Some times I climb a mountain just to see if I can. I don't show off to people when I earn cool armor or weapons or climbed the mountain.

 

  Not everything needs to give an award, but there should still be something that do

[Hero_of_Light]

42 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

 

One is that they're not good at setting their own goals, or would prefer to work toward one(s) set by others.

 

Another, related to the second part of the first, is that they don't find the achievement as satisfying if they're the only one who knows about it; they want or need others to see that they have.  This tends to be a lot easier if the challenge is set by someone else, with objective parameters for completion.  The criteria are clear and verifiable; you've done it or you haven't, you have the badge or you don't.

 

Sometimes I set my own goals, or achievements. Like how the two alts im working on aren't allowed to PL (Reward - I get to see some of the story the old devs worked hard on) 

 

 Even though other people can still power level, they still HAVE to lvl. Just because they got it faster than me and skipped story dosen't mean they didn't still earn it within the boundaries of the game. (Instant lvl 50 would be no boundaries, and therefore no fun and I would be fighting against that too)

 

But sometimes i dont want to invent a goal and I just want to work towards a goal set by the developers where the reward is something cool, and where everyone else in the community has the same opportunity to get that same set of reward options and are held to the same requirements to achieve it.

 

Badges just aren't as cool as costumes.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Hero_of_Light