The Request We have all been dreading, but knew was coming...

[Doc_Scorpion]

49 minutes ago, Tad Cooper said:

Who on earth has ever said to themselves, "Well,  I sure am looking forward to grinding out Fake Nemeses for that 10% hp bonus," in an unironic fashion? No one. Ever. In the entirety of history. And if you're thinking, "Oh, I like that. It's relaxing," you're lying to us and to yourself. It's just another annoying thing like the grind to 20 you're all happy to skip with DFB or the grind to 50 or money you're all happy to skip with the stupid AE farms. But no, THIS is different. This requires eye rolling dismissal.

What a wonderful strawman you have built there.

[MunkiLord]

56 minutes ago, Tad Cooper said:

I really don't get some of you people. Who on earth has ever said to themselves, "Well,  I sure am looking forward to grinding out Fake Nemeses for that 10% hp bonus," in an unironic fashion? No one. Ever. In the entirety of history. And if you're thinking, "Oh, I like that. It's relaxing," you're lying to us and to yourself. It's just another annoying thing like the grind to 20 you're all happy to skip with DFB or the grind to 50 or money you're all happy to skip with the stupid AE farms. But no, THIS is different. This requires eye rolling dismissal.

 

I like MetaVileTerror's idea. In fact, to expand on it: you should be able to blow merits on badges you've already earned. You've got to do them the real way on one character, then they show up grayed out on your other characters and you can just spend reward merits to skip that pointless bullshit and light it up. Make it cost more in proportion to the amount of bullshit skipped. ReallySuperDuperMan was awarded the Atlas Medallion for fulfilling all the normal requirements, SlightlySuperDuperMan was awarded the Atlas Medallion for his heroism/villainy in doing several hundred merits worth of something else because he's just another face of a real person whose time has value.

 

I also agree that this is not high priority.

Nah. I like that badges are character specific. 

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, Tad Cooper said:

I really don't get some of you people. Who on earth has ever said to themselves, "Well,  I sure am looking forward to grinding out Fake Nemeses for that 10% hp bonus," in an unironic fashion? No one. Ever. In the entirety of history. And if you're thinking, "Oh, I like that. It's relaxing," you're lying to us and to yourself. It's just another annoying thing like the grind to 20 you're all happy to skip with DFB or the grind to 50 or money you're all happy to skip with the stupid AE farms. But no, THIS is different. This requires eye rolling dismissal.

I look at it this way, it actually is relaxing, and I look forward to it on every character.

 

Because...

 

I get to put together a no fail death brigade to hunt down mutated monsters on a Nazi volcanic island.

 

Post atomic horror road warrior rejects on an industrial wasteland.

 

And nigh immortal steampunk wannabe bronzed deities on an extra dimensional far away interstellar island chain.

 

We get to visit all those places with 0 chance of failure, and epic whoopage of the tookus on every last one of those bastards.

 

I wouldn't miss that for the world.

[Replacement]

4 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I wouldn't miss that for the world.

Ok, but I would.

 

So something opt-in (where you claim on individual characters a bonus your account has unlocked) is ideal.

 

That's the fundamental issue I have with shutting down ideas like this... As long as you're not forced into it, why try to stop a thing for those who want it?

 

It's like hazing... "I had to have it this bad so you must as well" is the same faulty logic as "I don't want a nice thing so even though I could just opt out, I won't let you have it."

 

(This last half is not ranting at you, particularly, Infinitum, I'm just... Musing.)

[boggo2300]

This completely goes against what badges are and what they are for /jranger

[Tad Cooper]

7 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

What a wonderful strawman you have built there.

Pointing out a fallacy is not an argument. Explain why one grind should be necessary and the other should be skippable. Maybe offer an opinion as to why my proposal would be a net negative for the game.

 

5 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I look at it this way, it actually is relaxing, and I look forward to it on every character.

 

Because...

Some very poetic descriptions of defeat badges.

And you would get to do all those things regardless of whether or not they were required, just like the existence of DFB does not stop you from running missions sub 20 or earning Incarnate experience everywhere doesn't preclude you from running BAF over and over if you want. In Hero of Light's thread about wanting unlockable costumes you were pretty strongly against the idea of trophies and needing to run specific content on your alts. How is this different?

36 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

This completely goes against what badges are and what they are for /jranger

Badges are achievements. If the game were created this year they'd almost certainly be account wide and probably not come with bonuses at all. Instead they were designed by guys who thought you'd have one main and stick with it forever, which hilariously is pretty much what I do so this whole thread is academic to me.

[Infinitum]

27 minutes ago, Tad Cooper said:

Pointing out a fallacy is not an argument. Explain why one grind should be necessary and the other should be skippable. Maybe offer an opinion as to why my proposal would be a net negative for the game.

 

And you would get to do all those things regardless of whether or not they were required, just like the existence of DFB does not stop you from running missions sub 20 or earning Incarnate experience everywhere doesn't preclude you from running BAF over and over if you want. In Hero of Light's thread about wanting unlockable costumes you were pretty strongly against the idea of trophies and needing to run specific content on your alts. How is this different?

Badges are achievements. If the game were created this year they'd almost certainly be account wide and probably not come with bonuses at all. Instead they were designed by guys who thought you'd have one main and stick with it forever, which hilariously is pretty much what I do so this whole thread is academic to me.

Well if you read that thread you would see one of my main points was these badges and hunts existed. It's the content that does what was asked in that thread.  That's the last I will say on that, I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater than rehash that.  My points weren't unclear.

 

Secondly this is an area where Hero of light is actually correct.  It shouldn't IMO be easier to get the accolades that grant some decent sized bonuses to gameplay.

 

I'm all about easy buttons but that's one that shouldn't be account bound IMO because they are important, they affect gameplay significantly, and they are pretty fun to get.

 

And your last paragraph.  You literally have nothing to base that on and no way to prove any of that.

 

Flame away, 

 

/jranger

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i don't get why people argue against more options. aren't more options better? i mean if u wanna do it the old fashioned way having an easier way to do it doesn't preclude you from doing that.

 

+1 for more options

[MunkiLord]

8 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i don't get why people argue against more options. aren't more options better? i mean if u wanna do it the old fashioned way having an easier way to do it doesn't preclude you from doing that.

 

+1 for more options

Badges help tell a character's story, not an account or player's story. They should be left as is. 

[Replacement]

54 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Badges help tell a character's story, not an account or player's story. They should be left as is. 

 

2 hours ago, Replacement said:

So something opt-in (where you claim on individual characters a bonus your account has unlocked) is ideal.

 

That's the fundamental issue I have with shutting down ideas like this... As long as you're not forced into it, why try to stop a thing for those who want it?

 

It's like hazing... "I had to have it this bad so you must as well" is the same faulty logic as "I don't want a nice thing so even though I could just opt out, I won't let you have it."

 

[MunkiLord]

8 minutes ago, Replacement said:

 

 

Nah, if people want badges they can earn them for that character. It's one of the few things left like that. It should stay as is. Some options are just bad, this is one of them. 

[Omega-202]

18 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Nah, if people want badges they can earn them for that character. It's one of the few things left like that. It should stay as is. Some options are just bad, this is one of them. 

I just want to point out that people were being called selfish and uncompromising (not necessarily from you, ML) for advocating for status quo in the other recent thread asking for MORE grind.

 

wHy CanT yOu ComProMiSe?  

 

I'm good with where things are, but I hope certain people can see that there's other sides to the coin.

[MunkiLord]

9 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

I just want to point out that people were being called selfish and uncompromising (not necessarily from you, ML) for advocating for status quo in the other recent thread asking for MORE grind.

 

wHy CanT yOu ComProMiSe?  

 

I'm good with where things are, but I hope certain people can see that there's other sides to the coin.

I was absolutely one of those people. In general I'm not in favor of suggestions like this. But that would there thread plays a significant factor in why I am completely opposed the this suggestion. Those people don't like gated content, so be it. But some people do, and they should get to have their preferences met too. 

 

So giving on this suggestion is not a compromise. The compromise is keeping this as is so people that prefer gated content still have it, while people that don't like it have costumes and other things that have been made easier. 

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

I was absolutely one of those people. In general I'm not in favor of suggestions like this. But that would there thread plays a significant factor in why I am completely opposed the this suggestion. Those people don't like gated content, so be it. But some people do, and they should get to have their preferences met too. 

 

So giving on this suggestion is not a compromise. The compromise is keeping this as is so people that prefer gated content still have it, while people that don't like it have costumes and other things that have been made easier. 

Fine, like I said, I'm fine with things as is because the status quo is the compromise.  I was being facetious using the horrible meme text to mock you from the other thread so yoi can see how terrible you sounded.

 

But I am just hoping certain people (I guess, you included) have reassesed their stance since that other thread because obviously there are two sides to this.  All the BS calls of "the game will die without grind" and "I took an in game poll and we're the silent majority" is a bunch of crap.  There are plenty of people who would be happier with an instant 50 button and nobody can predict what will keep people around longer.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Omega-202 said:

Fine, like I said, I'm fine with things as is because the status quo is the compromise.  I was being facetious using the horrible meme text to mock you from the other thread so yoi can see how terrible you sounded.

 

But I am just hoping certain people (I guess, you included) have reassesed their stance since that other thread because obviously there are two sides to this.  All the BS calls of "the game will die without grind" and "I took an in game poll and we're the silent majority" is a bunch of crap.  There are plenty of people who would be happier with an instant 50 button and nobody can predict what will keep people around longer.

I agree, I just feel trying to meet the preferences of as many people as possible is a good thing. Nobody is going to get everything they want, which is fine as that's life. I'm opposed to the instant 50 too, but not for grind or earning reasons. My thinking is it would lead to a dramatic increase in demand, while also lowering supply to some extent as less people farm for 50s. So I think it would cause prices to rise, and that I think is a bad thing for the health of the game.

[ShardWarrior]

18 hours ago, Kyksie said:

The Live devs were planning something along those lines, to reduce the need to grind out Accolade badges. For example, if a character got the Slayer badge for 200 Vampires, then all other characters on that account would need 20% less vampires. If someone got the Task Force Commander Accolade, other characters on the account would need only 5 of the 6 Task Forces to get the accolade.

This is how STO works with regard to Reputation.  It's a fantastic feature IMO.

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

Nah, if people want badges they can earn them for that character. It's one of the few things left like that. It should stay as is. Some options are just bad, this is one of them. 

"This is how I want to play so it's how you have to play too."

 

k

[MunkiLord]

15 minutes ago, Replacement said:

"This is how I want to play so it's how you have to play too."

 

k

Not at all. If people don't want to deal with earning badges, they don't have to and they still have thousands of options left in other areas. But the very little gated unlockables left should stay as is. This way everybody gets at least a little bit of what they want. Nobody gets everything they want, and that's ok.

Edited November 7, 2019 by MunkiLord

[Oubliette_Red]

I am opposed to this outside of Holiday/Event/Anniversary Badges, most especially for those that award merits along with accomplishment.

 

I'm satisfied with the Base teleporter locations already being unlocks from the get-go, yet I can still go out and get them for merits.

 

Otherwise, my characters earn their own badges.

[boggo2300]

11 hours ago, Tad Cooper said:

Badges are achievements. If the game were created this year they'd almost certainly be account wide and probably not come with bonuses at all. Instead they were designed by guys who thought you'd have one main and stick with it forever, which hilariously is pretty much what I do so this whole thread is academic to me.

The game WASN'T created this year though, and the badges are the characters achievements NOT th accounts, like I said, making this change is completely against the intention and the design of the badges, and damned if I'm going to be silent while people try and devalue the badges Ive earned.

[Zepp]

I understand both sides, and would like to offer a middle-ground. For Holiday/Event/Anniversary, Veteran, Exploration, and History Badges, make them Global, other badges character bound.

[GM Sijin]

37 minutes ago, Zepp said:

Exploration

RIP quick and easy, soloable merits (and exp!) on all my new characters.

[MunkiLord]

50 minutes ago, Zepp said:

I understand both sides, and would like to offer a middle-ground. For Holiday/Event/Anniversary, Veteran, Exploration, and History Badges, make them Global, other badges character bound.

I think Exploration and History ideally should be character bound too, but those aren't too much of a big deal. To me that is, others may feel different. 

 

I'd really like it if account wide achievement badges were added though. But of course I'd want the effort to acquire them to be 5-15 times higher compared to character badges. 

[Zepp]

52 minutes ago, GM Sijin said:

RIP quick and easy, soloable merits (and exp!) on all my new characters.

Oh, forgot those award merits...

[boggo2300]

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

I understand both sides, and would like to offer a middle-ground. For Holiday/Event/Anniversary, Veteran, Exploration, and History Badges, make them Global, other badges character bound.

Anniversary and holiday ones ok, I still rather they weren't but I won't put up a struggle for those, veteran as , but exploration and history no way!!