Caves

[Display Name]

Hmm...  Where to start?  So many problems!

 

I have a serious problem orienting in multi-level missions, especially.  It's one of the reasons I always choose Hover.

 

Anyway, we're currently doing the Citadel arc and were in the 3rd Council cave.  The one that says "This has been in use many months."  At the end is the "pool room."  And it's a slightly different layout than I'm used to.  And I'm useless after the first room...  😞

 

Is there a way to "mark" stairs a little more obvious?  Maybe a section of wall that is a "stair" color or something?  Based on the base editor, I'm sure it would be a pain to do so!  So can you add some escalators too?  Lol!

 

And can you make all transportation powers available at the P2W agent?  And customizable animations?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i wish i had a better answer than "youll get used to it" sorry

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Display Name said:

Is there a way to "mark" stairs a little more obvious?

As a Player you basically "learn the modules" for each of the rooms.

1 hour ago, Display Name said:

Maybe a section of wall that is a "stair" color or something?

The NPCs in the base don't need such markings, so they won't be there.

1 hour ago, Display Name said:

And can you make all transportation powers available at the P2W agent?

No.

1 hour ago, Display Name said:

And customizable animations?

/jranger

[boggo2300]

3 hours ago, Redlynne said:

As a Player you basically "learn the modules" for each of the rooms.

The NPCs in the base don't need such markings, so they won't be there.

No.

/jranger

Pretty much every thing you said! +1

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i wish i had a better answer than "youll get used to it" sorry

Sometimes it can take a while. It was just a couple weeks ago that I learned that the pool room has a _fifth_ level to it: the one you enter from, the level up the stairs, the platforms above that, the level below the entry level -- and a fifth level at the bottom, where if you go to the far left (as viewed from the entrance) of the lower level, you can jump down away from the entrance and get access to a pair of intersecting passages under the walkways of the 'bottom' level. I had a mob spawn down there on a defeat all, and I was close to filing a petition for a stuck mob until I figured out how to get down there. I managed to make it through eight years of live without ever knowing that space was there.

[boggo2300]

10 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Sometimes it can take a while. It was just a couple weeks ago that I learned that the pool room has a _fifth_ level to it: the one you enter from, the level up the stairs, the platforms above that, the level below the entry level -- and a fifth level at the bottom, where if you go to the far left (as viewed from the entrance) of the lower level, you can jump down away from the entrance and get access to a pair of intersecting passages under the walkways of the 'bottom' level. I had a mob spawn down there on a defeat all, and I was close to filing a petition for a stuck mob until I figured out how to get down there. I managed to make it through eight years of live without ever knowing that space was there.

Interesting, I have mobs spawn down there quite often

 

the RNG is a strange beast

[Redlynne]

The first time I was confronted with the Pools module in Council/5th Column bases, I found it hella confusing.

 

After a few times of having to deal with the Pools module, I "learned" the layout of the map (it's basically a "tech" counterpart to the "layer cake" cave module) ... and after a few more times of dealing with it learned that there are indeed 5 "layers" to the Pools module.

 

It was always fun being on teams who would come to the Pools module and they'd groan in frustration and I'd be like ... I can lead you through this one, no problem ... and sometimes teams would be like "fine, show us!" ... and I'd immediately lead them off to the side and down one of the "rabbit holes" that dropped all the way down to the very bottom layer.  I'd then lead them through all the spawns down there on the bottom layer to full clear it and then come up on the far side of the room back up to the (starting) middle level opposite the way in.  We'd then methodically clear the middle "ground" level.  I'd then take people to the sides of the room with the stairs and use those to go down one layer (but not all the way to the bottom) and clear that level going side to side instead of front to back, which then helped spot any leftovers from the first clearing of the very bottom layer.  With the ground level on down of the Pools room cleared (and verified cleared), I'd lead people up the walkway to the upper floor and deal with the nasty arrangement of spawn groups up top, establish a beachhead and start clearing the first floor above.  Once that was cleared, it was time to take the next walkway up to the tippy-top control room and clear that.

 

I haven't seen the Pools module on any of the maps I've been fighting on yet, but I'm sure that once confronted with it the old memories of how to clear that room (just like how to clear the "wedding cake" module in the blue caves) will kick in and I'll know just what to do and where to go.

 

The key thing is to go DOWN and clear DOWN first ... that way if you fall through any of the holes in the floors above all the way down to the bottom you be going into an already cleared area, rather than dropping into yet MORE aggro to deal with (hello darkness you are my friend...).

 

So for the Pools room, you want to clear from bottom to top ... kind of in that order ... simply because it's SAFER and it's easier to remember which parts of the 3D space(s) you've already cleared (since they all look different from each other on each layer).

[Myrmidon]

I have to say that if you have a Citadel without a pool room then don’t bother buying a lottery ticket, because you have used up your luck for the week.

[boggo2300]

20 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

I have to say that if you have a Citadel without a pool room then don’t bother buying a lottery ticket, because you have used up your luck for the week.

week? surely at LEAST a month?

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

I have to say that if you have a Citadel without a pool room then don’t bother buying a lottery ticket, because you have used up your luck for the week.

And I have yet to finish a Moonfire without getting at least one pool room map. Two being most common, with one and three being outliers.

[Call Me Awesome]

5 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And I have yet to finish a Moonfire without getting at least one pool room map. Two being most common, with one and three being outliers.

Is it even possible to get a Council TF and not get that room at least once?  I've never done it in all the years I've played.

[gameboy1234]

On 12/28/2019 at 8:00 PM, srmalloy said:

I managed to make it through eight years of live without ever knowing that space was there.

A lot of maps are really horribly designed.  They should be redone and the old ones retired.  Something to look forward to if NC Soft ever lets us go legit I guess.

 

[srmalloy]

12 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

A lot of maps are really horribly designed.  They should be redone and the old ones retired.  Something to look forward to if NC Soft ever lets us go legit I guess.

 

I don't regard it as being 'horribly designed'; I look at things like that as a case of 'well, it just grew' -- under the bottom-level walkways isn't someplace you'd expect to find someone wandering around, but it's reasonable to have an "Oh, shit, I dropped X" moment and go down to retrieve it.

Edited December 31, 2019 by srmalloy

[boggo2300]

47 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

I don't regard it as being 'horribly designed'; I look at things like that as a case of 'well, it just grew' -- under the bottom-level walkways isn't someplace you'd expect to find someone wandering around, but it's reasonable to have an "Oh, shit, I dropped X" moment and go down to retrieve it.

this! Coping with the maps is kinda the point of the game...

[UltraAlt]

I tweaked my controller settings (Logitech F310) so traveling the caves isn't so bad, but I still ... well ... hate the purple caves.

Normal caves are fine, but due to the way that lighting works the purple caves are just Hades on the eyes.

I would really like to see their color changed. 

If they have to be purple at least make them a darker shade of purple. (Of course, I would rather that they weren't purple at all!)

Having them be purple doesn't make me feel like I'm some mystical surrounding in any way at all.

Yeah. Please. No more purple caves.

[Hyperstrike]

BIG MAN HATE COLON CAVES!

LITTLE MAN HATE COLON CAVES!

EVERYBODY HATE COLON CAVES!

*Drinks heavily*

[Display Name]

There's one thing I seem to have learned from this thread: the pool room is similar in layout to the "pancake" caves?  And both have 16 levels?  Lol!

[Lines]

10 minutes ago, Display Name said:

There's one thing I seem to have learned from this thread: the pool room is similar in layout to the "pancake" caves?  And both have 16 levels?  Lol!

16 that we know of.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Lines

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

16 that we know of.

DUN DUN DUUUUUUNNNNNN!

[Myrmidon]

On 12/29/2019 at 3:16 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

Is it even possible to get a Council TF and not get that room at least once?  I've never done it in all the years I've played.

Last time that Citadel was the weekly, I have one without it. It came up as something unique in team chat.

[boggo2300]

8 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

BIG MAN HATE COLON CAVES!

LITTLE MAN HATE COLON CAVES!

EVERYBODY HATE COLON CAVES!

*Drinks heavily*

Honestly, I only hate a single room in the caves, and well I can live with it, with judicious use of alcohol

[Ukase]

On 12/28/2019 at 10:00 PM, srmalloy said:

Sometimes it can take a while. It was just a couple weeks ago that I learned that the pool room has a _fifth_ level to it: the one you enter from, the level up the stairs, the platforms above that, the level below the entry level -- and a fifth level at the bottom, where if you go to the far left (as viewed from the entrance) of the lower level, you can jump down away from the entrance and get access to a pair of intersecting passages under the walkways of the 'bottom' level. I had a mob spawn down there on a defeat all, and I was close to filing a petition for a stuck mob until I figured out how to get down there. I managed to make it through eight years of live without ever knowing that space was there.

Interestingly enough, although I have no way to clearly describe it, there's one map where you go up a ramp, then up some stairs about 3 flights, then to some observation deck that those below would never know was there. If it weren't for the map showing a collection of red triangles (NPCs needing defeat), I'd have never known it was there. Even when I saw the triangles and was on the same space from the map's perspective, couldn't see them anywhere. It took me a moment, but I finally found this elevated room. 

The only thing that went through my mind was sincere appreciation for the creativity in making all these twisty-turning pathways in these mission maps. Yes, they can be frustrating and hard to navigate, but those devs sure did make an interesting place to play! 

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

The only thing that went through my mind was sincere appreciation for the creativity in making all these twisty-turning pathways in these mission maps. Yes, they can be frustrating and hard to navigate, but those devs sure did make an interesting place to play! 

Council/5th Column maps have wall-mounted pipes to help you navigate the turns, just as newer (originally red-side snake) caves have torches to help you find your way.

 

The pool maps are very frustrating for 'defeat alls' and they sit somewhere in my top 3 peeves along with:

• Oranbegan 'rescue x' maps: It's such a pain to find things (including all the mobs to defeat)... so many nooks and crannies!
• (Unai Kemen's) 'Defeat All' missions that take place on the many-tiered outdoor factory map. I made the mistake of keeping one of these missions at x8, and it was Clockwork. Not only are there wandering patrols, but the enemies purposely jump off the structure, run away, or fly away!

[srmalloy]

On 1/1/2020 at 1:34 PM, Ukase said:

Interestingly enough, although I have no way to clearly describe it, there's one map where you go up a ramp, then up some stairs about 3 flights, then to some observation deck that those below would never know was there. If it weren't for the map showing a collection of red triangles (NPCs needing defeat), I'd have never known it was there. Even when I saw the triangles and was on the same space from the map's perspective, couldn't see them anywhere. It took me a moment, but I finally found this elevated room.

It's the Council map room where it's a sort of oval on the map with a square structure at one end; depending on which way you enter, it immediately opens into a wide cave with tall pillars and, toward the back, a back and left wall that guide you down and angled left out of the room. If there is no more appropriate 'terminal' room (like the pool room or the one that opens into a long cavern that hooks right, going up in two stages to a wide area), the end boss for the map is often up on that balcony. If you're coming in from the end with the pillars, you can immediately fly up to the balcony and hit the mobs there from the back.

 

I had the pool room on one mission of a Citadel TF today; it was a 'defeat Archon Fred and his men' mission, and we'd cleared the floors, but the mission didn't end; I immediately ducked under the bottom walkways and found a random mob tucked up close to the 'entry' side under the lower walkway, ending the mission when I defeated him.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

my bane is oranbega!