Why so many chaotic Controllers?

[ninja surprise]

Just did a Tin/pex with this team. We totally blasted through it. It's the fastest I've ever seen the Bobcat/Neuron final fight go down.  

Scrapper was stone/stone and never complained about having to move to hit something. But there were two Kinetics on the team so moving quickly wasn't a problem.

[subbacultchas]

Redid my Grav/Dark into a Grav/Poison, and been running the big six TFs with him recently. I've ran a few as our three man team, some with full groups. Including the fastest takedown of Dr. Vazh in Posi2 today, on a team with mostly controllers and blasters, one scrapper and a defender. Less than 15 seconds including his full life heal, probably less than 10 but couldn't swear by it. 

Still got love for tanks and brutes, always will as I play them a lot myself. But squishy teams are just so damned powerful on the big targets.

Edited December 23, 2021 by subbacultchas

[MoonSheep]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:07 AM, Mercurias said:

That’s an impressive number of words to say, “people aren’t playing the game the way I remember In 2005, and that means they should all adjust to how I like it.”

 

good work buddy

 

OP, please contact @Mercurias before posting again to check whether he has approved of your opinion

Edited December 23, 2021 by MoonSheep

[MoonSheep]

and to back up OP - people are only interested (and experienced) in playing every AT as a combat class which is why you’ve experienced frustration.

 

stepping outside of the status quo will get you in trouble with the internet forum dwellers

[Ignatz the Insane]

3 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

good work buddy

 

OP, please contact @Mercurias before posting again to check whether he has approved of your opinion

Um, you're responding to a post from two years ago from a poster who last logged in a year ago so....

Good work buddy?

[Clave Dark 5]

Somebody stop this thread I want to get off!

[MoonSheep]

57 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

Um, you're responding to a post from two years ago from a poster who last logged in a year ago so....

Good work buddy?

 

hey i didn’t say i was any good at reading 😛

[oedipus_tex]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:40 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I prefer teams without tanks and blasters.

 

If I really want to steamroll, I'll run with nothing but eight corruptors. ITF testing showed me that.

 

I honestly think this whole argument is SAF. Almost as bad as the knockback threads.

 

 

Corruptors are force multipliers so a big pack of them, or Defenders, will do well.

 

Blaster and Tanker are damn, and I mean damn fine archetypes though. 

 

 

Back on Controllers, they can do alright, coz they are also force multipliers. I'd usually prefer one to a Dominator for iTrials. Some of them struggle harder than others though. Mainly Ice, Earth, Electric and Mind on Controllers. I like the flavor of those sets a lot but I have to admit the control they bring doesn't often mean a lot unless they're built in a really particular way. People spamming ice cages probably don't know they have a base DPA of around 7 and you'd be better off casting almost anything else in a team setting, most of the time.

Edited December 24, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Solarverse]

On 12/21/2021 at 8:40 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I prefer teams without tanks and blasters.

 

If I really want to steamroll, I'll run with nothing but eight corruptors. ITF testing showed me that.

 

I honestly think this whole argument is SAF. Almost as bad as the knockback threads.

 

Not trying to start an argument or anything, would just like to point out that most people pick up whoever asks to join. It's not often that people play without Tanks or Blasters.

 

This argument doesn't even matter to be honest with you, because regardless of how much people can't stand chaotic play styles, it won't change anything. Simply put, the game went from a game that required player cooperation in order to achieve goals and there were serious consequences to playing the game "any way you want to" to a game that doesn't punish chaotic play styles in the slightest other than pissing off your team mates. Same can be said for knock back. In the old days, knock back came with consequences, teams were likely to give you the boot for using knock back in those days, these days there simply aren't any consequences other than annoying the hell out of your team mates and getting the boot for it is pretty rare.

I have come very close to logging on my secret alt account, and rolling a knock back monster Storm/Energy Defender without any KB to KD's, and joining random teams while just playing the game. Not purposely trying to annoy my team mates, but just playing the game to have fun with knock back instead of being considerate and not using KB to KD's; just to see how much hate that garners me in actual game play reality and recording the experience. Call it an experiment if you will.

I am very curious how much hate that would actually get me. There are a clan of people that are very vocal on these forums about saying, "Play the way you want to, knock back is the greatest thing since sliced bread" but in game, the experience will most certainly not reflect what is being said on these forums. I am certain if I played the way I want to without any regard to other people's play styles, it will get me booted from many teams and probably yelled at and /ignored or 1 Starred.

When this happens, I am sure I won't have the support of the people on these forums to fight that battle in game. The only place where the Knock Back battle is won, is on these forums. However, these forums are not a very good reflection upon the actual game. The game is like prisons; prison have their own rules to follow that have been dictated by the prisoners, regardless of the rules the warden has in place. So being patted on the back for being all for Knock Back on these forums, gives me the feeling that taking the advice of said forum posters will only get me problems in the actual game when playing with players who don't give two s**ts about the people who post forums.

I have not done it yet, but I just might get the urge to do so and conduct my experiment, lol.

And keep in mind, not trying to argue with you, I am just being realistic with you.

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Solarverse

[Solarverse]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:38 PM, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Corruptors are force multipliers so a big pack of them, or Defenders, will do well.

 

Blaster and Tanker are damn, and I mean damn fine archetypes though. 

 

 

Back on Controllers, they can do alright, coz they are also force multipliers. I'd usually prefer one to a Dominator for iTrials. Some of them struggle harder than others though. Mainly Ice, Earth, Electric and Mind on Controllers. I like the flavor of those sets a lot but I have to admit the control they bring doesn't often mean a lot unless they're built in a really particular way. People spamming ice cages probably don't know they have a base DPA of around 7 and you'd be better off casting almost anything else in a team setting, most of the time.

 

If Gravity had -Knock Back built in to the Immobilize, I would include Gravity in that, I personally think that is the only thing holding that set back from being among the list you have there. Fire is decent too, due to the controlled Knock Down and Stun ability, very helpful in controlling mobs once a good tank has them stacked nice and tight. I am really enjoying some of these more challenging mobs that we are seeing with Aeon. Controllers actually feel useful again with the more difficult Task Forces we are seeing. These mobs have more staying power, which means mobs don't get obliterated before a controller can cast any real control abilities.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Solarverse

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

I have not done it yet, but I just might get the urge to do so and conduct my experiment, lol.

 

You should. Mostly because:

 

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

However, these forums are not a very good reflection upon the actual game.

 

I see this thrown around the forums often and I think it's total BS.

 

We are a % of the total population, yes, but by that very statement, it's likely we are all together a very accurate representation of the entire playerbase in our opinions.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Honestly, the only people I put on gignore are folks that let me know that they're racist or overly religious.

 

I have never put anyone on gignore or kicked anyone from a team because of their playstyle or build. And I suspect... hell, I expect, that this is the prevailing MO amongst the vast majority of those that play this game.

[Solarverse]

47 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

You should. Mostly because:

 

 

I see this thrown around the forums often and I think it's total BS.

 

We are a % of the total population, yes, but by that very statement, it's likely we are all together a very accurate representation of the entire playerbase in our opinions.

 

I don't like being wrong, but to be honest with you, in this case I hope you are right, because I think it would be a lot of fun just playing with Knock Back without a care in the world, just play to have fun and not worry about stacking mobs or playing with any real strategies, basically play the way I played when this game was released, before I was even aware of the hatred for Knock Back. So in this case, I hope you are right and I am very wrong.

[Solarverse]

54 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

You should. Mostly because:

 

 

I see this thrown around the forums often and I think it's total BS.

 

We are a % of the total population, yes, but by that very statement, it's likely we are all together a very accurate representation of the entire playerbase in our opinions.

 

Have you ever studied Social Psychology? When people come to the forums to complain about Knock Back, and there have been a lot over the years, they tend to catch a lot of flack from the group of forum posters who love Knock Back...that's a lot of pressure to conform to the popular opinion on the forums. They come, and then they go because the most likely feel hammered on. I have even seen some players come to the forums, hate on knock back, get hammered on, then suddenly they change their opinion. That's how social constructs work. People tend to fall in to line when they are feeling attacked for not having the same behavioral patterns as the ones attacking them, in fact, they may pretend to, or change their overall personalities to better fit those around them. So to be fair, I cannot exactly hold what people say on forums as definitive proof. The only way I will know for sure, is to conduct my experiment and record my findings and then post them in full honesty and full transparency.

Now, I highly doubt it will change my opinion on Knock Back, but, what it will do is either A: Prove to me that yes, people in game hate Knock Back enough to kick me, or yell at me, or B: Convince me that I am simply wrong about how others respond to Knock Back in game, and I need to stop claiming that people catch flack for it.

I have seen it done, but I am willing to admit that it is possible that it was not done as much as I am remembering it being done. So this experiment will settle that one way or the other. And to be honest, playing with Knock Back will be a whole new world for me and I am looking forward to the experience.  🙂

[Six-Six]

I blame PUGs...

 

(aww... could you really, though??? look at those faces)

On a PUG where hardly anyone knows everyone else, there's usually:
 

that guy who'll try to run ahead or the other direction for some unknown reason as if the rest of the team is just there to boost mob spawns
that guy who'll insist you stay in a tight group... for buffs (while he cops a feel)
that guy who's got no idea what's going on and just stays with touchy-feely guy for security
that guy who hasn't come to terms with his powers yet... like firing a PBAoE 5 yards from effective range (I dunno, maybe he likes watching the cool down timer)
that guy who complains that you're using your powers the way you're supposed to, but not to his liking
that guy who... oh hell, I could go on all day!

the team members are hardly on the same page from the get-go... like getting to the mission door. members jump off in different directions only to see TT a few seconds too late. everyone's in it for their own personal agenda or fetish. that's why I rarely play with PUGs and prefer friends. On bigger SG runs, we wouldn't know who brought what, but there would still be a quick briefing and coordination (communication at the very least). I also enjoy all Spider runs, all archer runs, all storm runs, etc. (I can never catch MM Mondays and the saturday Tanker Tuesdays). In each run, roles are often defined, a common goal is understood and some sort of strategy is applied.

There's one particular group that I enjoy where we don't slot IO sets and the reliance on your AT/power sets' comparative advantage is more pronounced. It's not a perma-death group, but we still make an effort not to die. I don't think IOs are completely to blame nor are they guiltless: they do help shore up my toons shortcomings but at the cost of power creep. Some of my friends are purists and stick with SOs. I'm just not as skilled as they are, so let me have my procs and set bonuses.

In a similar light, the buggers I mentioned above are what I see. they probably see me in a similar way. they/we all have owr own sense of fun or fulfilment, so I don't rain on their parade, they don't piss on my cereal.

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Six-Six

[Ignatz the Insane]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

When people come to the forums to complain about Knock Back, and there have been a lot over the years, they tend to catch a lot of flack from the group of forum posters who love Knock Back...that's a lot of pressure to conform to the popular opinion on the forums. 

While I've seen a few who say they 'love Knockback', almost all of them state they generally at least try to use it sensibly.  The rest who push back are folks who simply don't let it bother them anymore.  It's not like it happens in every group.  I PuG a lot (mostly TFs), and the percentage of...bothersome...knockback is quite low.  I don't know what to tell you man.  Seems to me that while the same folks may defend knockback, I see the same folks always complainin' about it.  Knockback used to bother the hell outta me...until it didn't.    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited January 1, 2022 by Ignatz the Insane

[Solarverse]

30 minutes ago, Six-Six said:

I blame PUGs...

 

(aww... could you really, though??? look at those faces)

On a PUG where hardly anyone knows everyone else, there's usually:
 

that guy who'll try to run ahead or the other direction for some unknown reason as if the rest of the team is just there to boost mob spawns
that guy who'll insist you stay in a tight group... for buffs (while he cops a feel)
that guy who's got no idea what's going on and just stays with touchy-feely guy for security
that guy who hasn't come to terms with his powers yet... like firing a PBAoE 5 yards from effective range (I dunno, maybe he likes watching the cool down timer)
that guy who complains that you're using your powers the way you're supposed to, but not to his liking
that guy who... oh hell, I could go on all day!

the team members are hardly on the same page from the get-go... like getting to the mission door. members jump off in different directions only to see TT a few seconds too late. everyone's in it for their own personal agenda or fetish. that's why I rarely play with PUGs and prefer friends. On bigger SG runs, we wouldn't know who brought what, but there would still be a quick briefing and coordination (communication at the very least). I also enjoy all Spider runs, all archer runs, all storm runs, etc. (I can never catch MM Mondays and the saturday Tanker Tuesdays). In each run, roles are often defined, a common goal is understood and some sort of strategy is applied.

There's one particular group that I enjoy where we don't slot IO sets and the reliance on your AT/power sets' comparative advantage is more pronounced. It's not a perma-death group, but we still make an effort not to die. I don't think IOs are completely to blame nor are they guiltless: they do help shore up my toons shortcomings but at the cost of power creep. Some of my friends are purists and stick with SOs. I'm just not as skilled as they are, so let me have my procs and set bonuses.

In a similar light, the buggers I mentioned above are what I see. they probably see me in a similar way. they/we all have owr own sense of fun or fulfilment, so I don't rain on their parade, they don't piss on my cereal.

 

 

Almost sounds like a bad sexual encounter than a game, lol.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

Knockback used to bother the hell outta me...until it didn't.    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I still hate it. Even last night, running a TF with a couple SG mates, I had just pulled everything to me with fold space when BOOM off everything goes flying. My initial reaction was cussing inside of my head but as you state it takes almost no time for the higher brain to kick in, shrug it off and move on.