I Love Knockback

[kelika2]

Just now, Lines said:

Because the difference between knockback done poorly and knockback done well is-

This is the thing however, the only knockback done well is knockdown.

What is the point of you:

wasting a power slot

wasting enhancement slots

a slot on the team

for that .1% chance of knockback being useful?  I have been playing since late April and never once in a group thought "wow sure glad that knockbackerer was here surely they saved the team"

 

And if the other people in a group ask you to turn on your KnockDown toggle, and your only refute is "MY LIFE MY CHOICE MY RULES, DAD!" then.. why be in the team?

And if you are solo, you can just leave it off.

[honoroit]

5 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Scroll up, my first post in this thread was about all the wrong things about Knockback.

Nothing is being transformed, just you hopping in at the end of this and making assumptions.

 

ive been here since post 6, good buddy - and you projecting your desire into suggested modification to game play space is exactly what I'm hearing.

[kelika2]

Just now, honoroit said:

ive been here since post 6

If this is true, what was transformed?  Rereading everything just says me sticking to my guns about a pro-knockdown toggle lifestyle

[honoroit]

1 minute ago, kelika2 said:

If this is true, what was transformed?  Rereading everything just says me sticking to my guns about a pro-knockdown toggle lifestyle

 

it won't work (a toggle).

• people will bully others (like you) into toggling on/off knockback
• it will lessen the experience as others have eloquently put

 

You cannot expect others to slot KB -> KD, why? :

• you are asking them to modify their build slotting potential to address an issue you have with the effect of their powers
• knockback in skilled hands is phenomenal (see my post, the one with a person being smashed on a wall - page 1)

 

now if they made sudden impact ALSO include a force feedback proc, that'd be a more attractive slotting option. but it doesn't, and it isn't.

 

You rile up all over KB, just aim mobs at a wall.  if there are no walls, just deal with it.

 

asking others NOT to utilize the fullness of their skills because of some perception you have towards efficacy / kill rate / other blah - is nonsense, and perspective twisted up to command.

[Galaxy Brain]

6 minutes ago, honoroit said:

asking others NOT to utilize the fullness of their skills because of some perception you have towards efficacy / kill rate / other blah - is nonsense, and perspective twisted up to command.

On the same note, is it ok to use KB to actively mess with the placement of other people's powers?

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, honoroit said:

it won't work (a toggle).

• people will bully others (like you) into toggling on/off knockback
• it will lessen the experience as others have eloquently put

Asking someone to be a team player does not make you a bully.  (most people)

Violently lashing out at people asking you to stop makes you the person with anger issues. (a child being told No/stop/calm down)

And lessen what experience?  Knocking a group of enemies down only means the distance of how far they were knocked back was changed, not the overall mechanic.

 

5 minutes ago, honoroit said:

You cannot expect others to slot KB -> KD, why? :

• you are asking them to modify their build slotting potential to address an issue you have with the effect of their powers
• knockback in skilled hands is phenomenal (see my post, the one with a person being smashed on a wall - page 1)

The amount of people who can control themselves as such are an extreme few and far in between and with this games mentality of inviting the first 7 who send a tell for a group leads to so many people disappointed.

 

7 minutes ago, honoroit said:

You rile up all over KB, just aim mobs at a wall.  if there are no walls, just deal with it.

 

asking others NOT to utilize the fullness of their skills because of some perception you have towards efficacy / kill rate / other blah - is nonsense, and perspective twisted up to command.

Also comes down to plain ole annoyance.  I really hate having stuff knocked out/pushed out of burn/rain/fulcrum/basically all AoEs.  And asking you to turn on the toggle or slot the enhancements so we too can AoE to our fullest should not be demonized

[honoroit]

The witch wouldn't have survived drowning, unless they were ungodly.  If they'd drowned, they were  too, but we saved their soul. 

 

Prepare the stake and fire boys, someone posted lft! 

 

The manner and tone of thought is untoward. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by honoroit
Clarity

[Lines]

11 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

This is the thing however, the only knockback done well is knockdown.

If this is how you feel, then you make the meaningful choice to slot KB to KD. If it improves the power, how can you also call it wasteful? If you're unwilling to use a slot to improve your power, then I suggest rerolling your nrg blaster as a rad and colour the powers blue. That too is a meaningful decision.

17 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

I have been playing since late April and never once in a group thought "wow sure glad that knockbackerer was here surely they saved the team"

In about the same timeframe, the only characters I've ever thought this of have been a few tanks and healers. I've certainly never thought it of scrappers, blasters, stalkers, dominators, kheldians, VEATS, brutes or masterminds, but I'm always pleased to see them. Why the high expectation for knockback classes?

 

My second main is a Tank, I've been significantly more inconvenienced by more AoE immobs than knockbacks. I've asked more controllers to take note of what they're doing than storm supports or energy blasters combined. I've had knockback do a very good job of keeping mobs near me. I appreciate that damage mitigation for squishier characters happens with knockback, especially if I'm over the aggro cap. So I expect to see a few mobs fly around. It's no biggie, and nor is having to dash around a few inches to keep the immobbed enemies aggro'd on me. 

 

I usually slot KB to KD on my own AoE powers. I appreciate that the slot use improved the power in a way that meaningfully improves my gameplay. I do not want to be pandered by the game, nor be defaulted to a meta-decision.

[kelika2]

16 minutes ago, Lines said:

If this is how you feel, then you make the meaningful choice to slot KB to KD. If it improves the power, how can you also call it wasteful? If you're unwilling to use a slot to improve your power, then I suggest rerolling your nrg blaster as a rad and colour the powers blue. That too is a meaningful decision.

... what?

1.) I do have KB to KD in my energy blasters attacks.  Made the character x100 more fun because I wanted to be an Energy Blaster, not a Knockback blaster

1.1.) When a KB>KD slotted power gets the Defeating blow, the ragdoll(defeated enemy) still gets sent flying

2.) radiation also has a cone knockback

2.1.) I do have a radi/fire blaster with the /fire stuff tinted greenish radiation like.  off topic but damn I love being able to color powers to make them fit other things.

Edited January 15, 2020 by kelika2
defeated enemy

[seebs]

I have played a few times with people who were comfortable just spamming knockback. What I found was: (1) things were slower sometimes (2) our survivability went through the roof.

[Widower]

Hello. Please remember to keep civil. Thank you.

[Troo]

Some lively discussion today and a bit of shuffling in the poll.

My hope was to get some numbers/votes and maybe some stated an opinions. (note: participants may vote on more than one option).

No need to try and win an argument in the comments. The votes are painting a picture:

 

Love (Keep it as is) = 24 votes
Love (Tweaks would be okay) = 19 votes
Players should be able to toggle it as wanted/needed. = 16 votes
Wish it was knockdown instead = 12 votes
Hate (Tweaks would be okay) = 4 votes
Hate (Get rid of it) = 0 votes

[Rathulfr]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:13 PM, Troo said:

Some lively discussion today and a bit of shuffling in the poll.

My hope was to get some numbers/votes and maybe some stated an opinions. (note: participants may vote on more than one option).

No need to try and win an argument in the comments. The votes are painting a picture:

 

Love (Keep it as is) = 24 votes
Love (Tweaks would be okay) = 19 votes
Players should be able to toggle it as wanted/needed. = 16 votes
Wish it was knockdown instead = 12 votes
Hate (Tweaks would be okay) = 4 votes
Hate (Get rid of it) = 0 votes

I interpret these numbers as:

• Love KB! = 57%
• Toggle It! = 21%
• KB to KD! = 21%
• Hate KB! = 1%

It looks like the KB lovers (or at least they tolerate it as is) have the majority in this poll.

 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

8 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I interpret these numbers as:

• Love KB! = 57%
• Toggle It! = 21%
• KB to KD! = 21%
• Hate KB! = 1%

It looks like the KB lovers (or at least they tolerate it as is) have the majority in this poll.

 

 

On 1/15/2020 at 6:13 PM, Troo said:

Some lively discussion today and a bit of shuffling in the poll.

My hope was to get some numbers/votes and maybe some stated an opinions. (note: participants may vote on more than one option).

No need to try and win an argument in the comments. The votes are painting a picture:

 

Love (Keep it as is) = 24 votes
Love (Tweaks would be okay) = 19 votes
Players should be able to toggle it as wanted/needed. = 16 votes
Wish it was knockdown instead = 12 votes
Hate (Tweaks would be okay) = 4 votes
Hate (Get rid of it) = 0 votes

actually 

19+16+12+4 = 51 (these are the votes that are ok with some change)

                          24 (voted for love it, no change at all)

 

So more people would prefer some change over no change. Good day sir

[Galaxy Brain]

53 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I interpret these numbers as:

• Love KB! = 57%
• Toggle It! = 21%
• KB to KD! = 21%
• Hate KB! = 1%

It looks like the KB lovers (or at least they tolerate it as is) have the majority in this poll.

 

The numbers are visible tho

[honoroit]

The game would be cheapened if you just fell over when hit by such thunderous blast! 

 

It's like some people seek to create an elitist subset that won't fly in mmo space period these days, and definitely won't with a player base of 1500 consistent attendees on a given shard. 

 

'controllers who aoe immob' (to impact kill efficacy!) to establish containment asap when the meta requires kill all sub 5s at +4, or heavens forbid because they like the look of stone cages. 

 

'your power colors give me the sicks', change them'

 

'your power sfx give me migraine, we should kick you' 

 

'veats who don't double leadership, that's sub optimal for me' 

 

And on. These arguments tend to center around how 'my limited playtime should be optimally tuned, for me. But I want to group. So group should conform to my priorities, or I is irritate'. 

 

No human pairing, let alone group of 8, proceeds according to the will of one without an element of discord. 

 

This is part of the joy of it. 

 

Step back and perhaps consider what can be wrought in this, as group achievement. 

 

You will have a better time, than letting thing make you itchy, and worse, scratching at phantom pains. 

 

The source of your annoyance is not other players, it is you becoming irritated at them. 

 

Knockback is fine. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, honoroit said:

The game would be cheapened if you just fell over when hit by such thunderous blast! 

 

It's like some people seek to create an elitist subset that won't fly in mmo space period these days, and definitely won't with a player base of 1500 consistent attendees on a given shard. 

 

'controllers who aoe immob' (to impact kill efficacy!) to establish containment asap when the meta requires kill all sub 5s at +4, or heavens forbid because they like the look of stone cages. 

 

'your power colors give me the sicks', change them'

 

'your power sfx give me migraine, we should kick you' 

 

'veats who don't double leadership, that's sub optimal for me' 

 

And on. These arguments tend to center around how 'my limited playtime should be optimally tuned, for me. But I want to group. So group should conform to my priorities, or I is irritate'. 

 

No human pairing, let alone group of 8, proceeds according to the will of one without an element of discord. 

 

This is part of the joy of it. 

 

Step back and perhaps consider what can be wrought in this, as group achievement. 

 

You will have a better time, than letting thing make you itchy, and worse, scratching at phantom pains. 

 

The source of your annoyance is not other players, it is you becoming irritated at them. 

 

Knockback is fine. 

strawmans argument.

 

This game has always been, is, and most likely will always be heavily customizable. Its one of the things we all most likely agree that we love about the game. All we are asking for is more options. If your play KB well you will never get any complaints. If you play KB poorly you will get complaints whether there is a change or not. Regardless if your stance on the whole KB-KD issue the one thing i think we can all agree on is the set Sudden acceleration needs a fix. It provides a ton of KB and then takes it all away. Maybe improving this set will bridge the gap between the two camps

[honoroit]

I'm only ever interested in how you think, perhaps that's grasping at straws? 

 

There is a taste to complaints in threads recently, this one included, that echoes my immediately prior sentiment, resoundingly.

 

To that I'd offer something of a reminder of what a 'source of annoyance' is. 

 

To point - sudden acc, if it included, pound for pound, force feedback proc, would provide an attractive frankenslot option. 

[0th Power]

1 hour ago, honoroit said:

 

what the...

[Saiyajinzoningen]

here is another potential solution. Make overwhelming force un-unique......pretty sure that's not a word....

[Rathulfr]

2 hours ago, 0th Power said:

what the...

She pulled a BFG from her BF[censored].

 

(edit) "Fun bags of holding"?

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Rathulfr
better joke

[Rathulfr]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The numbers are visible tho

 

Basically, I just combined the first two, because they're essentially the same, AFAIC. 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  (Mark Twain)

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

 

Basically, I just combined the first two, because they're essentially the same, AFAIC. 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  (Harry Truman)

 

Way I see it, the 2nd option support changing KB by allowing it to be changed.

 

Also @honoroityou never answered if it is OK for somebody to use KB to actively detriment others?

[honoroit]

23 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Way I see it, the 2nd option support changing KB by allowing it to be changed.

 

Also @honoroityou never answered if it is OK for somebody to use KB to actively detriment others?

That sure is hard to judge, but sure, why not? 

 

There are trolls under bridges. 

 

That's a behavior problem though, I can chase you around atlas and kill steal from your lvl1 if I'm just awful.

 

I can aggro things into our team, just out of badness, because it makes me giggle, or I'm fed up. I can even make it look like an accident! 

 

All sorts. 

 

But you probably shouldn't make a toggle to protect the group from adds, or forcibly disconnect someone who shot a mob they thought was too much for a hero-in-training. 

[MunkiLord]

On 1/15/2020 at 2:32 AM, kelika2 said:

 

 

Think of others the next time you are about to press the knockback/scattering ability thats only really fun to you because you are the one doing it.

I see this as lot. And each time it's pure bullshit. The people that spout this 'think of others' nonsense do it because they don't like knockback. And them but liking something is more important than someone else liking it. 

 

If a teammates playstyle is annoying, kick them or find a new team. That's what I do. People don't have to bend to my or your preferences and that's ok. Finding a new team isn't hard. Insisting others bend to your preferences is every bit as selfish as a person that uses KB with complete disregard. 

 

This attempt at moral guilting people is pure bullshit. This isn't just directed at the person I'm replying to.