End of Mission Stats

[RCU7115]

Apparently people have forgotten that the code for this game is like spaghetti. Not everything is as easy as they think it is. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I personally do not know.

[Chronicler J]

32 minutes ago, RCU7115 said:

Apparently people have forgotten that the code for this game is like spaghetti. Not everything is as easy as they think it is. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I personally do not know.

Irrelevant unless a developer responds. This is merely a suggestion. 

[Outrider_01]

I have thought about it, I can see a point.  But again, in CoH it seems kinda useless this.

 

1. Game pretty much fell behind, players have gotten to powerful.

2. So much knowledge has been collected,  content is trivial when you already know what to expect; IO builds.

 

When I hear stats its is generally competitively and I roll my eyes.  When it comes to CoH now, its just so trivial in PVE I I just can't see anything of value outside of time.

 

sorry if I come off as rude, its just who I am.  Once you have the knowledge of how to improve and get very good at it, in my opinion you are already top dog to the point it is trivial to keep trying at the same thing and tracking performance of the same thing loses value unless you change it up.  But in CoH, running powerful number crunched builds is personal peformance of a person.

[Chronicler J]

24 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

I have thought about it, I can see a point.  But again, in CoH it seems kinda useless this.

 

1. Game pretty much fell behind, players have gotten to powerful.

2. So much knowledge has been collected,  content is trivial when you already know what to expect; IO builds.

 

When I hear stats its is generally competitively and I roll my eyes.  When it comes to CoH now, its just so trivial in PVE I I just can't see anything of value outside of time.

 

sorry if I come off as rude, its just who I am.  Once you have the knowledge of how to improve and get very good at it, in my opinion you are already top dog to the point it is trivial to keep trying at the same thing and tracking performance of the same thing loses value unless you change it up.  But in CoH, running powerful number crunched builds is personal peformance of a person.

I don't learn anything new from knowing these numbers. I just get to see my numbers and bench different missions against each other for fun. You aren't thinking about this rationally; there's no benefit to this besides personal interest on a per-player basis in how well they do from mission-to-mission. If I see I did 128,000 damage one mission, and I did 217,000 the next, that's cool because I'm getting a real number. What was my mitigation like that mission? 11,000 self healing mitigation? Cool. It's just to enjoy your build. The trivial thing is trying to suggest that just because I "know" how my build is going to do in regular content, that I don't need to see my numbers. This was an argument the old community pushed back against with the original dev team because we wanted numbers. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Chronicler J

[Outrider_01]

1 minute ago, Chronicler J said:

You aren't thinking about this rationally; there's no benefit to this besides personal interest on a per-player basis in how well they do from mission-to-mission

My point of view is rational from my perspective just as much of your to yourself. We are going to disagree which humans are very good at.

 

I understand you want to track X damage in a mission and how much you resisted ect, I see a mission as a hit point pool of X damage and static damage received -90% if your capped. You are going to hit that max amount of hitpoint the game generates be it 10k or 100k anyway regardless to complete it and damage taken is skewed if there is a miss against you while you can tell that taken is only 90%, yeah you succeeded in a stat to track but compelition  time is pretty much the only thing I  can see a personal stat in CoH. 

 

Once you got that build completed its just smooth sailing to being trivial.  And then you need to change it up, to find different thing to compare to the last build.

 

Yeah I ramble, I just see as a you need wider things to compare then a couple of missions which can be predictable.  You got to change things your self instead instead of running the same thing to see different stats, missions are pretty static unless you change your character.

[Chronicler J]

1 minute ago, Outrider_01 said:

My point of view is rational from my perspective just as much of your to yourself. We are going to disagree which humans are very good at.

 

I understand you want to track X damage in a mission and how much you resisted ect, I see a mission as a hit point pool of X damage and static damage received -90% if your capped. You are going to hit that max amount of hitpoint the game generates be it 10k or 100k anyway regardless to complete it and damage taken is skewed if there is a miss against you while you can tell that taken is only 90%, yeah you succeeded in a stat to track but compelition  time is pretty much the only thing I  can see a personal stat in CoH. 

 

Once you got that build completed its just smooth sailing to being trivial.  And then you need to change it up, to find different thing to compare to the last build.

 

Yeah I ramble, I just see as a you need wider things to compare then a couple of missions which can be predictable.  You got to change things your self instead instead of running the same thing to see different stats, missions are pretty static unless you change your character.

Then why did the devs give us combat attributes and power analyzers to track numbers? Players just want to see numbers. This has nothing to do with being a necessary step in playing the game. 

[Outrider_01]

Combat attributes  is just what your character  has fitted, I don't see how you can apply it as a stat when not in combat.

 

Power analyzer you got me, might of been after I stopped playing.  Unless thats the tool tip window.

 

I know people like numbers just in CoH a lot seems irrelevant unless you define it.  Instead of arguing, lets come to an agreement and define worthwhile stats.

 

Pure damage dealt is just hitting what ever is generated for that mission, one mission is 100k and the next 120k, would break down to completion time.  More like badge tracking even if you exceed it and keep adding it, need a variable to calculate it otherwise its again completion time.

 

Damage type dealt vs faction,  Some factions are resistant and others weaker.

 

Defense vs Resistance.  Debuffs against it makes better tracking then running soft cap and max resist against a particular type.

 

Archetype, some are faster at a specific job and some are better in given situations.

 

IO vs SO, though very few run SO.

 

Breaking it down more gives better results then X damage in given mission, just seems to be scooping water from a lake into a bucket.  Always gonna get same or very similar results.

[Lines]

28 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

 

I know people like numbers just in CoH a lot seems irrelevant unless you define it.  Instead of arguing, lets come to an agreement and define worthwhile stats.

 

I'll be tracking my furthest knockback.

[Outrider_01]

Blasters...

 

Power Thrust beats Ki Push for power

 

Ki Push beats Power Thust in Style, even a boss can float away and be skeet shot down 😁

[Chronicler J]

On 1/13/2020 at 3:20 AM, Outrider_01 said:

I know people like numbers just in CoH a lot seems irrelevant unless you define it.  Instead of arguing, lets come to an agreement and define worthwhile stats.

From your point of view it is irrelevant. I'm not arguing. Allow players to track whatever they want. This suggestion doesn't need to serve a defined purpose aside from personal enjoyment or preference. 

[Greycat]

As an "I only see my stats," optional thing?  I wouldn't have an issue with it. I might even use it.

 

I get the dislike for a team window (which wasn't requested, I know.) Dealt with that enough in Mechwarrior Online. "Loser, you only did 30 damage?" ... Well, I was in a 25 ton mech and ran facefirst into the entire enemy team while scouting ahead like I'm supposed to, so yes. Those just lead to unfun play.

[skoryy]

I remember high score drama when it was a thing at Champions Online.  Not sure why y'all want to bring it here.

[Sailboat]

On 1/12/2020 at 5:10 PM, Wolvel said:

It would only show the stats to yourself, which gets rid of any gating. Your team wouldn't see the stats.

Wouldn't the (hypothetical) munchkin team merely demand that you post those stats for them to see?

 

In other games that permit stat tracking, I've seen a group of players (explicitly founded on the idea of playing friendly and non-competitively) quickly turn on each other when these sorts of stats were available.  "Check the raid log -- I think Bob wasn't healing enough last time, we should dump him and get someone who will."

 

Ugh.

[Brawlin]

@Sailboat If your "friends" demand you to upload a screenshot of these personal mission stats in order for you to keep playing with them. I am sorry. Would these same "friends" not demand a build screenshot as well?

[Troo]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:50 PM, Chronicler J said:

Would love to see an option to turn on end of mission statistics that tracks damage dealt, damage received, healing, threat maintained, damage mitigated, etc. etc.

Would this be burdensome on the system?

If not, I like the idea.

I wouldn't be a fan of comparing players.

 

Looks like something may be in the works, or at least the data may be more available for a tool.

On 1/14/2020 at 11:49 AM, The Curator said:

Combat Log

• Combat log output has been standardized. Many powers used to report the wrong damage type and effects in the combat log, this process has fixed that, in addition to making the combat log a lot easier to parse.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Troo

[krj12]

I could see value in something like this when soloing, for example to measure how my farmer is doing in an AE mission in terms of dps.

 

On teams, not so much, since there are so many variables depending on team composition, buffs, etc.

 

[Greycat]

20 hours ago, Sailboat said:

Wouldn't the (hypothetical) munchkin team merely demand that you post those stats for them to see?

"I don't have them turned on." Besides, nobody's beholden to any specific group. If someone does that, one-star, leave team.

[Sailboat]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

"I don't have them turned on." Besides, nobody's beholden to any specific group. If someone does that, one-star, leave team.

You -- and others in this thread -- misunderstand me.  I was not complaining about my friends or the difficulty of finding groups.  My point was that introducing any system that tracks "performance" corrupts the community, having the tendency to turn even casual fun-oriented players into spies and informants monitoring other people's playstyle, even measuring mouseclicks-per-hour.

 

This is a general observation  -- it applies even if you have been lucky enough not to have seen it in action, even if the stats require self-reporting, even across multiple genres of game.  You might argue that you don't mind a Stasi-style network of informants monitoring everyone's mouseclicks, but don't blandly assert this is a problem with my (or anyone's) choice of friends.  Tracking players' "contributions" eventually leads to this sort of behavior.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Sailboat

[Greycat]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, then. I don't think this community, as it's historically been, would tolerate that very long. 

[Biosphere]

In contrast I think it could be just as fun. People already have fun with and are amused by the simple timer display from the end of taskforces. Having a stat board at the end of the mission would be similar. I know it's a big attraction for people who play SMITE for example. That's a MOBA but you get my point.

[Myrmidon]

On 1/13/2020 at 2:50 AM, Lines said:

 

I'll be tracking my furthest knockback.

Tracking how many times Willpower characters can take aggro from other aggro aura sets would have been my primary choice up until it was boosted in the coming patch.

[Chronicler J]

On 1/15/2020 at 1:13 PM, Sailboat said:

Wouldn't the (hypothetical) munchkin team merely demand that you post those stats for them to see?

 

In other games that permit stat tracking, I've seen a group of players (explicitly founded on the idea of playing friendly and non-competitively) quickly turn on each other when these sorts of stats were available.  "Check the raid log -- I think Bob wasn't healing enough last time, we should dump him and get someone who will."

 

Ugh.

So what you're suggesting is that City's community has the potential for the same toxic culture that other MMOs have? In a game where you think about once a century at max level (thanks to everyone grabbing up builds or getting incarnates) it would be odd to ask how a person is "performing," and then to demand to see that person's stats when most players hit judgement and then RP or mission exit. Even raids require no thought. If you're afraid of this, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you don't think highly of the community to begin with. 

[Chronicler J]

On 1/16/2020 at 1:07 PM, Sailboat said:

My point was that introducing any system that tracks "performance" corrupts the community

 

Your paranoia is an unwarranted aggression. Those who choose to behave in that way can live under the ignore feature. I fail to see the "dangers" in giving players the ability to track their progress when by your own account people should be snobbishly gating each other through MIDS. I don't see that happening, nor I have witnessed it happen in the time that both MIDS and Combat Attributes have existed. What I do see often is people demanding others to make builds for them. Different spectrum. 

 

If you have something constructive to add about the interface of such a system or what it could potentially track (able to hide all stats save for the few you want to see, etc., etc.,) then by all means contribute.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Chronicler J

[Lines]

I think Sailboat is making an absolutely fair point and significant contribution to the idea.

 

This thing does have the potential to shape the game culture, possibly in negative ways. So it's valuable to discuss those circumstances and how this idea could mesh as well as possible with the current culture of game.

[Brawlin]

I don't think this community is so toxic that a simple self stat page would corrupt it so utterly so that when you do radios people will track your apm. I think this would add a great way to see the fruits of your build.

 

EDIT: To add to this point, this game is simply not on the same level of difficulty that most mmos are at. There is no reason to kick "bob" for not healing enough. This tracker would just be for fun and to see numbers.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Wolvel