Making a Tanker for the upcoming patch

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

On 1/23/2020 at 7:49 PM, Sura said:

My Ice/Elec tanker is going to be looking around at all the changed Tankers and thinking "wait, what?".

what do you mean by this?

 

[Troo]

Could try for one of the Unicorns (sept)

 

Archetype    Primary    Secondary    Level 50    Total Characters
Tanker    Fiery Aura    Street Justice    0    79
Tanker    Electric Armor    Savage Melee    0    60
Tanker    Dark Armor    Street Justice    0    54
Tanker    Fiery Aura    Kinetic Attack    0    46
Tanker    Bio Organic Armor    Ice Melee    0    43
Tanker    Super Reflexes    Battle Axe    0    43
Tanker    Dark Armor    Kinetic Attack    0    40
Tanker    Super Reflexes    Spines    0    40
Tanker    Dark Armor    Martial Arts    0    37
Tanker    Super Reflexes    Ice Melee    0    19
Tanker    Ice Armor    Battle Axe    0    102

 

Elec/Sav may be the next I try.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Troo
forgot to cross out the one I made

[Haijinx]

/Electric  gets a lot from this Id think

Thunderstrike AOE radius finally good 

Jacobs Ladder cone increase which ut really needed.

Improved scale on the Telenuke 

 

How does it effect chain induction? 

 

 

 

[ninja surprise]

5 hours ago, Leogunner said:

ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA! 

 

With the bugged prestige enhancement chance of knockdown proccing 100%, it's super fun just Ora Ora ora'ing 5+ foes. I kind of wish shadow Maul also had a native chance to KD. Seems fitting. 

Holy moly that's what's happened! I put that KD enhancement and was surprised at how much it was making mobs flop!

Edit: I have Kinetic Combat Chance for KD in each of my dark melee punches and they proc seemingly every time too. I get the feeling this is too good to be true.

Edited January 28, 2020 by ninja surprise

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:40 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

That's kinda too damn perfect not to use.

 

Done.

 

 

 

While the name may be awesome... Ice Armor is not. Having such low DDR on a defense based powerset is painful. Only way to make it good is ramp up recharge for permahoarfrost and get as much SL damres as possible.

[Sura]

14 hours ago, Duck-Smokes-Quack said:

what do you mean by this?

 

At the time I felt like there wasn't a lot that changed for that combination.  For the most part Elec only got target cap raises and one cone boost, both of which are nice, but not earth shattering.  Ice really didn't get anything that I can see (though I'm not super clear on all the minutiae of the changes).  In fact I wonder if Ice didn't maybe get nerfed down from being the leader in holding aggro, but I REALLY don't understand the taunt changes.

 

Ultimately though, all the changes are in a positive direction, and I'm happy things moved in that way.

[Sura]

13 hours ago, Haijinx said:

/Electric  gets a lot from this Id think

Thunderstrike AOE radius finally good 

Jacobs Ladder cone increase which ut really needed.

Improved scale on the Telenuke 

 

How does it effect chain induction? 

 

 

 

No radius increase on Lightning Rod which is fine IMO.  No effect on Chain Induction at all (which is kind of a bummer because it spreads so slowly compared to AoE's).  Jacobs Ladder and Thunderstrike are now where they probably should have been.  Only other radius/target increase is Lightning Clap, which by default does no damage (but can be proc slotted).

 

I'd say Elec did good, but not great.  Other than Chain Induction I'm not really sure what else they really could have/should have done though; it's just not a set that was going to see big increases.

[Heraclea]

14 hours ago, Troo said:

Could try for one of the Unicorns (sept)

 

Tanker    Bio Organic Armor    Ice Melee    0    43

This sounds to me like it has potential.  I had a dark armor/ice melee back on Victory, later on Champion IIRC, that I rather enjoyed: a pure melee controller. 

[Cutter]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

While the name may be awesome... Ice Armor is not. Having such low DDR on a defense based powerset is painful. Only way to make it good is ramp up recharge for permahoarfrost and get as much SL damres as possible.

So I'm curious about this. Per Mid's, Ice has 51.9% DDR, unslotted (and it doesn't seem to go up as def enhancements are slotted either). Clearly worse than SR's 77.9% unslotted (which appears to rise to effectively total protection as slots are filled).

 

Looking at Ice against SR's pure defense it's clearly inferior in terms of DDR. But given Ice has native resists (albeit to relatively uncommon damage types) plus some other tools, is it more correct to assess it against the hybrid sets? It might still be worse, but is it less worse than compared against SR?

 

Strictly in DDR terms, Ice is near the top against the hybrid sets. It looks like that goes Shield (with Active Defense up) > Ice = Stone (with Rooted up) > Invul > Bio/WP (oddity: the builder says both Bio and Will have no DDR, is that accurate?).

 

I guess the question is, do the other hybrid sets have to jump through as many hoops? Man I wish I knew where I was going with this ramble...

[Sura]

1 hour ago, Cutter said:

So I'm curious about this. Per Mid's, Ice has 51.9% DDR, unslotted (and it doesn't seem to go up as def enhancements are slotted either). Clearly worse than SR's 77.9% unslotted (which appears to rise to effectively total protection as slots are filled).

 

Looking at Ice against SR's pure defense it's clearly inferior in terms of DDR. But given Ice has native resists (albeit to relatively uncommon damage types) plus some other tools, is it more correct to assess it against the hybrid sets?

Ice is just weird IMO and that makes it difficult to figure.  It's tanking with defense, unenhanceable -recharge, unenhanceable -damage, and a little bit of resist (and maybe even endurance drain).  There's just really nothing like it.  I think end drain, -recharge and -damage are over estimated in terms of their positive effects on the Ice set, as they all have target caps that are significantly under the aggro cap.  DEF and RES (what most Armor sets use) apply to every attacker.

 

I think it'd be fun to have an Ice Armor thread.   I love Ice and love talking and reading about it.  🙂

[Giocondi]

20 hours ago, Troo said:

Could try for one of the Unicorns (sept)

 

Archetype    Primary    Secondary    Level 50    Total Characters
Tanker    Fiery Aura    Street Justice    0    79
Tanker    Electric Armor    Savage Melee    0    60
Tanker    Dark Armor    Street Justice    0    54
Tanker    Fiery Aura    Kinetic Attack    0    46
Tanker    Bio Organic Armor    Ice Melee    0    43
Tanker    Super Reflexes    Battle Axe    0    43
Tanker    Dark Armor    Kinetic Attack    0    40
Tanker    Super Reflexes    Spines    0    40
Tanker    Dark Armor    Martial Arts    0    37
Tanker    Super Reflexes    Ice Melee    0    19
Tanker    Ice Armor    Battle Axe    0    102

 

Elec/Sav may be the next I try.

I've got a 50 Ice/Battle Axe :D.....Theoderic…...so fun.

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 hours ago, Cutter said:

Per Mid's, Ice has 51.9% DDR, unslotted (and it doesn't seem to go up as def enhancements are slotted either).

 

That should really be corrected.

[Haijinx]

12 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

While the name may be awesome... Ice Armor is not. Having such low DDR on a defense based powerset is painful. Only way to make it good is ramp up recharge for permahoarfrost and get as much SL damres as possible.

Bit like EA, build to be softcapped without drains.   Then hit drain when fighting Def debuff baddies  

 

Should work on tankers at least, with the higher base numbers on weave, CJ, etc. 

 

 

[Haijinx]

8 hours ago, Sura said:

No radius increase on Lightning Rod which is fine IMO.  No effect on Chain Induction at all (which is kind of a bummer because it spreads so slowly compared to AoE's).  Jacobs Ladder and Thunderstrike are now where they probably should have been.  Only other radius/target increase is Lightning Clap, which by default does no damage (but can be proc slotted).

 

I'd say Elec did good, but not great.  Other than Chain Induction I'm not really sure what else they really could have/should have done though; it's just not a set that was going to see big increases.

FF in Lightning clap would be decent then.

[Lancek]

How’s Dual Blades on Tanks?

[SwitchFade]

3 minutes ago, Lancek said:

How’s Dual Blades on Tanks?

Slicey and dicey.

 

😋😋😋😋😋😋😋😋😣

[Zeraphia]

Oh boy have the new changes for Dark Melee since this initial post made a world of a difference for that set...

[wheresmycow]

13 hours ago, 33053222 said:

Oh boy have the new changes for Dark Melee since this initial post made a world of a difference for that set...

What happened to Dark Melee?

[KelvinKole]

4 minutes ago, wheresmycow said:

What happened to Dark Melee?

 

[Zeraphia]

4 minutes ago, wheresmycow said:

What happened to Dark Melee?

Has gone live yet but Dark Consumption changed from a cooldown of 180s to 90s, and does the damage equivalent of Lightning Rod. Also Shadow Maul had its arc increased from 45 degrees to 120 degrees. Basically, its AOE has improved quad-fold. 

[wheresmycow]

... I may need to take another look at a Shield/Dark tanker.

[eknudson]

32 minutes ago, 33053222 said:

Has gone live yet but Dark Consumption changed from a cooldown of 180s to 90s, and does the damage equivalent of Lightning Rod. Also Shadow Maul had its arc increased from 45 degrees to 120 degrees. Basically, its AOE has improved quad-fold. 

Didn't the damage on Shadow Maul go down fairly significantly and the recharge time up?  Which is reasonable if it's a real AoE now but the changes aren't ALL good for Shadow Maul.

[Zeraphia]

39 minutes ago, eknudson said:

Didn't the damage on Shadow Maul go down fairly significantly and the recharge time up?  Which is reasonable if it's a real AoE now but the changes aren't ALL good for Shadow Maul.

Target cap was raised, recharge time was increased for Shadow Maul, and yes the damage did take a hit, but the AOE was much expanded and hits far more targets, it is a REAL aoe now, but honestly I'd much rather have the revised version than the former.

[eknudson]

1 hour ago, 33053222 said:

Target cap was raised, recharge time was increased for Shadow Maul, and yes the damage did take a hit, but the AOE was much expanded and hits far more targets, it is a REAL aoe now, but honestly I'd much rather have the revised version than the former.

It's a net positive, but just to be clear not all positive.

 

Should be good-- dark melee needs something.  It's a useful set as a "toolbox" but when you need to actually kill things, a set that does virtually no AoE damage and (according to the scrapper forum calculations) slightly below average single target damage is disappointing.  If you're trying for good single target damage, shadow maul isn't a good attack to have in your chain but as it currently stands it's only one of my DM/SR scrapper's AoE attacks because of limited options when Fire Ball is recharging. 

[wheresmycow]

Quick question regarding Siphon Life in DM: Mid's says the Heal is 10%, what is it 10% of?  Damage, max health?